INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • CantCatchABreak99

    There are a number of lineup sellers out there that DraftKings knows about. In Single Entry Double Ups and Single Entry Tourneys, lineup sellers artificially inflate the cash lines. Selling lineups violates DraftKings terms of service. I’ve brought this to their attention on numerous occasions. They have assured me that something is being done about it, but it’s been nearly a year and they continue to do nothing. (I have gone beyond working with customer support and have exchanged emails with CEO Jason Robins, yet still nothing has been done.) I would hope that some media attention on this issue would force DraftKings to take action. Curious if anyone out there has any ideas on how to go about it. In the 10/22/2018 Single Entry $25 Double Up there were more than 100 lineups IN THE MONEY that were identical. The players purchasing these lineups are doing nothing but inflating the cash lines of the cash games and single entry tourneys. When one person finishes ahead of me that’s one thing, but when that same person sells his lineup to more than 100 people then it artificially inflates the cash line. People are losing money because of this issue and it needs to stop.

  • bigez952

    The problem is that most of these cases of 100+ lineups being the same are not due to lineup sellers. Many times those are the optimal lineups generated from a site like RG’s Lineup HQ. There is nothing against the rules about using a lineup generator and projection models. I am guessing that Draftkings is doing everything they can to squash lineup sellers but I would bet a majority of these same lineups are actually optimal lineups from a publicly available projection source and lineup builder.

  • CantCatchABreak99

    Unfortunately, you could not be more wrong. I have screenshots from the twitter account of the lineup sellers where buyers are “grateful” for the lineup they purchased. They post screenshots with the full lineup results and it matches the 100+ lineups in the results. If you believe that these lineups are generated from tools like RG’s Lineup HQ then you are delusional. I am not trying to be an a$$, but this is naive.

  • BobbyTheBrain

    keep up the fight bud, hope you make some progress. couple weeks ago when trubisky went off at less than 2% owned i still didnt place in the money. DFS is becoming impossible with all of the bending of the rules now. pretty much just giving your money away now with DFS its ridiculous.. this is the wrong place to complain though cuz without dfs there is no rotogrinders so its not like they will be a help

  • scott33

    FD is even worse. I agree with everything u said, I despise nothing more than people who pay for actual lineups. What a joke

  • OttawaCityMadman

    Its like scalping tickets for concerts or games. Seen police walk right by scalpers as they called out for tickets in States and in Canada where scalping is “illegal”. They dont care and you can’t stop it. Pretty much that’s life, and move on. If you don’t like and feel so strongly about it, don’t play.

  • Messiah717

    The sites don’t care and the people doing it are scumbags.

  • CantCatchABreak99

    Here’s the thing: When the State of New York decided to allow Daily Fantasy Sports, they made FanDuel and DraftKings reduce the number of entries in the Multi-Entry tournaments to give “the little guy” a chance to keep with those that have larger bankrolls. I believe that was one of more than a few changes the state required them to make. They wanted these changes to improve fairness. I believe that if we could get this issue front and center of someone with some power and oversight that we could force the sites to do something about this issue. It’s just wrong.

    And, to all those who believe that DFS is “just getting harder” I would say that’s not the case. I would suggest that lineup sellers are artificially inflating the cash lines and this is why it is getting more difficult.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @CantCatchABreak99 said...

    And, to all those who believe that DFS is “just getting harder” I would say that’s not the case. I would suggest that lineup sellers are artificially inflating the cash lines and this is why it is getting more difficult.

    While I cannot stand the fact that there are lineup sellers, and people out there not willing to build their own lineups, that’s simply not true. DFS has gotten tremendously harder over the past few years as more and more content is provided and more ‘average players’ are now accessing that content.

    The cash lines do get inflated a bit, no doubt, but how about all the days when the lineup sellers give out bad lineups? I mean I freaking love seeing the nights when some of these lineups that are sold are under the cash line.

  • hcassidy

    @bhdevault said...

    While I cannot stand the fact that there are lineup sellers, and people out there not willing to build their own lineups, that’s simply not true. DFS has gotten tremendously harder over the past few years as more and more content is provided and more ‘average players’ are now accessing that content.

    The cash lines do get inflated a bit, no doubt, but how about all the days when the lineup sellers give out bad lineups? I mean I freaking love seeing the nights when some of these lineups that are sold are under the cash line.

    Thing is though, you have some that will charge like 5.00 a night, but then you have others that will sell you whole season(for a sport) for like 50.00 and you get access to the lineups every night. So 5.00 vs 50.00, its a no question, which do you take, they 50.00 multiplied by 100 and then once it hits, those 5.00 want that play every night so they upgrade to the 50.00.

  • dolphinkick182

    @CantCatchABreak99 said...

    Unfortunately, you could not be more wrong. I have screenshots from the twitter account of the lineup sellers where buyers are “grateful” for the lineup they purchased. They post screenshots with the full lineup results and it matches the 100+ lineups in the results. If you believe that these lineups are generated from tools like RG’s Lineup HQ then you are delusional. I am not trying to be an a$$, but this is naive.

    Not to mention that while the seller is advertising on Twitter or all of the other social media sites, many include a screen shot of their biggest wins ALONG with their FD or DK USERNAME. Most (if not all) of the buyers include their FD or DK USERNAME in the screen shot of their wins which are always retweeted by the seller and used as advertisement. I recently went to sign up for DK (I only play FD at the moment and really wanted to play MMA) and the info they wanted from me would without a doubt clearly identify me. Name, telephone number, address, photo ID, utility bill, and if I went to the end of it I’m sure they’d want a DNA sample. All connected to my username.

    So CLEARLY they don’t care and are not actively pursuing it. Though they’ll post on the forum where to “report” a seller or buyer, but the truth of the matter is that they make their money in rake and they’ve got better things to do. They only need to look like they are, or say that they are, to give the illusion that they are inforcing their TOS.The more LU’s a seller sells the better for them. Rake, rake, rake it in, all contests fill, and they are fat and happy!

    Now I will say that I could care less if someone wants to make money selling LU’s (good on them for taking advantage of free enterprise!), nor do I care if people can’t think or strategize for themselves and try to buy their way in. It doesn’t affect me. I play as a hobby and I play to win. Winning my money back or a few cents on the dollar doesn’t excite me. If the seller beats me I lose, if I beat him I win more. But I do understand the people who want to make money at DFS and can’t because of the mass entries being put in buy a good seller.

  • CantCatchABreak99

    @bhdevault said...

    While I cannot stand the fact that there are lineup sellers, and people out there not willing to build their own lineups, that’s simply not true. DFS has gotten tremendously harder over the past few years as more and more content is provided and more ‘average players’ are now accessing that content.

    The cash lines do get inflated a bit, no doubt, but how about all the days when the lineup sellers give out bad lineups? I mean I freaking love seeing the nights when some of these lineups that are sold are under the cash line.

    I understand what you are saying and I would way that yes, I probably exaggerated a bit, but when a Double Up is paying out 500 positions and 1/5th of them are purchased lineups in the money then the cash line has been pushed down 100 positions. This is not small. In fact, it’s quite large.

  • bigez952

    @CantCatchABreak99 said...

    Unfortunately, you could not be more wrong. I have screenshots from the twitter account of the lineup sellers where buyers are “grateful” for the lineup they purchased. They post screenshots with the full lineup results and it matches the 100+ lineups in the results. If you believe that these lineups are generated from tools like RG’s Lineup HQ then you are delusional. I am not trying to be an a$$, but this is naive.

    I don’t think I am being delusional at all since I know for a fact that optimal lineups get mass entered into single entry double ups everyday. I played 170 slates this MLB season in the $5, $10, and $25 single entry double ups. Everyday I would run the optimal lineups using some of the more popular projection sources. It was not uncommon to see these lineups in contests with numbers ranging around 25-75 per day per site.

    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle in that not every train is a lineup seller but I would agree there is probably a mixture. But your being naïve if you think that 100% eliminating lineup sellers would 100% eliminate lineup trains. I think problem is a lot more complicated than you think and this issue isn’t going away anytime soon unfortunately.

  • CantCatchABreak99

    I don’t think it’s anywhere in between. I’ve been researching this issue for a year now and monitoring the social media accounts of lineup sellers. You are being naive.

  • NIN1002

    I just want to throw out there that I have begun seeing this going on at Yahoo recently. This wasn’t much of an issue (and really, it’s still pretty small all things considered), but it is indeed beginning to happen out there as well.

    It is indeed frustrating to see. The exact same people each night as well (they are easy to find in NFL as I can always find one in one of the large scale 50/50’s, then go backwards into the tourneys and…lo and behold…there they all are) which makes it pretty obvious it would seem when the same chunk of players with the exact same names are playing the exact same lineup every week. A number of them play on other sites.

    I ran the lineup HQ for NFL each week and can say with full certainty that this chunk of players is NOT getting their lineup from RG. Perhaps they are all using an optimizer from a different site, but this seems incredibly unlikely to me as usually only 1-3 people use the exact lineup being spit out by Lineup HQ from RG in the “big” Yahoo $10 Sunday main slate tourney.

    It is annoying in the sense that this chunk of players are all playing pretty darn good line ups as well. I have been profitable for the year….but not as profitable as the chunk of players playing the same lineup. And to that end, I find it incredibly irritating as it seems the number of players playing this lineup tends to GROW by 1 or 2 every single week.

  • gridironguru99

    • 367

      RG Overall Ranking

    To the OP…your best best is to fight fire with fire. Find a savvy reporter who covers tech or sports tech and give them this as a scoop about how DFS is still plagued by scum and needs more policing. Just be careful what you wish for. More regulating means more compliance and lawyers and then the costs are passed onto players in the form of higher rake. IMHO its worth the fight. I would suggest Fast Company, Forbes, Sports Information Business, Reuters, etc. anyone covering DK/FD and all the legal drama etc .

  • scott33

    @hcassidy said...

    Thing is though, you have some that will charge like 5.00 a night, but then you have others that will sell you whole season(for a sport) for like 50.00 and you get access to the lineups every night. So 5.00 vs 50.00, its a no question, which do you take, they 50.00 multiplied by 100 and then once it hits, those 5.00 want that play every night so they upgrade to the 50.00.

    Saw on Twitter last night that a site charges $1250 for the NBA season package. They give out their “optimal lines as well as providing content, optimizers, etc. Cant believe people pay that much. They did take down a lot of GPPs last night which prob covered the cost of most of their customers.

  • scott33

    Bubbled out tonight in a 50/50 bc 12 obvious lineup seller buyers we’re sitting 39-50th place, while yours truly was u guessed it.. 51st lol

  • Dribgib

    I would think RG would take a hefty interest in this since it basically eliminates the need for their service.

  • clrockny24

    I must say I did pay for a lineup seller. It was around late August for $25 for the whole NFL season. I’m slowly making my money back as I don’t play a lot of money a night, so I figured it wasn’t too bad to pay. It’s about all I’d pay.

    The weird thing is, I was already in a group chat that provides free lines, so paying wasn’t really necessary. I guess I did it anyway because the guy was nice, and there’s some cool people in his group chat. Also, sometimes I see his lineups and I don’t even play them, and I play the lineups in the other chat.

    My point is, you shouldn’t pay for lineups if it’s a crazy amount, or you shouldn’t pay period. Like I said, mine wasn’t too expensive and if I’m making money back it’s all good. I suppose I could have just put $25 into fanduel though.

  • CantCatchABreak99

    @Dribgib said...

    I would think RG would take a hefty interest in this since it basically eliminates the need for their service.

    Not really. It’s not as though RG outright publishes full lineups. Their lineup tools may produce a lineup based upon your inputs, but that’s different than saying “Here is your lineup for tonight.”

  • Dribgib

    @CantCatchABreak99 said...

    Not really. It’s not as though RG outright publishes full lineups. Their lineup tools may produce a lineup based upon your inputs, but that’s different than saying “Here is your lineup for tonight.”

    Yeah that’s my point – RG requires more effort – which I prefer – but you know what they say about the gen pop…

  • bigez952

    @CantCatchABreak99 said...

    Not really. It’s not as though RG outright publishes full lineups. Their lineup tools may produce a lineup based upon your inputs, but that’s different than saying “Here is your lineup for tonight.”

    You do realize your input can be as basic as putting a 1% min exposure to any 2 players and then generate more than 1 lineup to get the true optimal without any real input. So they might not openly publish an optimal lineup but you can access it with just 3 clicks and 10 seconds of your time.

    You should do that sometime and run csv’s on the largest single entry contests and it will surprise you just how many people play DFS that way.

    That is how one of my good friends plays DFS every week. Wait until about 30 minutes before kickoff run the RG optimal by making 10 lineups with 2 randoms at 0% ownership then entire the top optimal lineup into all the single entry double ups.

    The impressive part is that is actually a profitable method this season as RG has been very solid with their projections so far this year.

    You can keep calling me naive but I know first hand lineup trains are formed this way.

  • raidernation14

    Dfs is becoming sickening scum so called sharks sharing lineys for $5 50/50 what a joke. trash of the industry ruining it for any type of casual player anymore. Sent weekly screenshots to fanduel but get the runaround. same 3 every week

  • icemanyeee

    draftkings doesn’t even respond when i contact them

  • CantCatchABreak99

    @icemanyeee said...

    draftkings doesn’t even respond when i contact them

    I have exchanged emails with their CEO Jason Robins and with Jason Misiano, the head of customer experience at DraftKings. Initially they were both very responsive, but as the problem has continued they have both stopped responding to my emails. I think the only way anything will be done about this is by publicizing it. But, I’m unsure whether any news organizations would find it newsworthy.

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