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  • ColonialRampage

    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14623271/draftkings-bans-use-offsite-scripts-identify-experienced-players

    Highlights: – DK will have it’s own scripting software and will disallow use of any outside scripts – Reduced entry limits – Some kind of designation of experienced players

    I’m interested in seeing the official announcement (probably in the morning?)

    Moderator Note: Please keep the discussion in this thread on-topic regarding the current changes DK is making. If you want to discuss any proposed changes (e.g. stack limits), please create a new thread.

  • Putz

    @Olhausen said...

    Your crazy. It takes me many hours during baseball season doing all stacks with maybe 10-15 lineup’s a night. Pitching is a huge part and also how I’ve had big nights. Someone who’s stacking every team 1-6 won’t win most nights. There’s lots of skill involved to differentiate from the standard 1-6 stacks each night.

    This skill = time and $ for hitting every stack multiple times with different pitchers.

  • Baal

    I’m curious if DK will actually actively monitor and ban script users or if that’s just some optimistic PR angling. If there were previous instances where sites claimed that policing scripts are impractical, I wonder if/how DK made it feasible. A cynical side of me imagines that these new policies might be too laborious to actually enforce, but would accomplish the primary objective—-reducing some customers’ paranoia about scripts. Consider that almost all of their high volume players are mostly like using automation/scripting of some sort. The new on-site tool isn’t actually that useful at all for multi-entries since contests have to be entered manually (making it incredibly difficult to react to game time injury news if you have to manually edit all the different lineups) + there is no practical way to use dummy lineups that you can change 5 min before tipoff.

    So will all the high-volume 100+ entries-in-a-single-contest guys just stop entering more lineups than they can manually manage? Will they simply make more -EV lineups that fail to take advantage of late breaking news? I doubt either of these two options are likely. What’s probably most likely is that they will continue using some iteration of their tools and DK will simply look the other way since it makes little business sense to start banning the very activity that is probably generating the most money for the company.

    And in the off chance that somehow someone gets outed for using outside scripts, DK can simply say that the user was an anomaly who geniusly “escaped detection.” The site will make an example out of him allthewhile maintaining the ridiculous notion that a person can profitably play 100+ lineups per contest day after day without any aid from automation.

  • Putz

    @Baal said...

    I’m curious if DK will actually actively monitor and ban script users or if that’s just some optimistic PR angling. If there were previous instances where sites claimed that policing scripts are impractical, I wonder if/how DK made it feasible. A cynical side of me imagines that these new policies might be too laborious to actually enforce, but would accomplish the primary objective—-reducing some customers’ paranoia about scripts. Consider that almost all of their high volume players are mostly like using automation/scripting of some sort. The new on-site tool isn’t actually that useful at all for multi-entries since contests have to be entered manually (making it incredibly difficult to react to game time injury news if you have to manually edit all the different lineups) + there is no practical way to use dummy lineups that you can change 5 min before tipoff.

    So will all the high-volume 100+ entries-in-a-single-contest guys just stop entering more lineups than they can manually manage? Will they simply make more -EV lineups that fail to take advantage of late breaking news? I doubt either of these two options are likely. What’s probably most likely is that they will continue using some iteration of their tools and DK will simply look the other way since it makes little business sense to start banning the very activity that is probably generating the most money for the company.

    And in the off chance that somehow someone gets outed for using outside scripts, DK can simply say that the user was an anomaly who geniusly “escaped detection.” The site will make an example out of him allthewhile maintaining the ridiculous notion that a person can profitably play 100+ lineups per contest day after day without any aid from automation.

    The sites still have not published who they approved to use scripts and when. Transparency?

  • Yeoman

    Maybe this is already having an impact?

    I noticed last night that the score to cash in DK’s biggest $1 GPP was lower than the score to cash in their biggest $1 double-up. That’s bizarre; it shouldn’t ever happen…unless people got trapped in the GPP with multiple entries that they couldn’t mass edit? In the double-up the multiple entries tend to be the same unhedged optimal lineup and it’s still possible to edit them all with a single operation.

  • Whacko

    Not going to affect my play, however will these changes quell those out in the anti-dfs crowd to relax?

  • hokie2009

    @Baal said...

    I’m curious if DK will actually actively monitor and ban script users or if that’s just some optimistic PR angling. If there were previous instances where sites claimed that policing scripts are impractical, I wonder if/how DK made it feasible. A cynical side of me imagines that these new policies might be too laborious to actually enforce, but would accomplish the primary objective—-reducing some customers’ paranoia about scripts. Consider that almost all of their high volume players are mostly like using automation/scripting of some sort. The new on-site tool isn’t actually that useful at all for multi-entries since contests have to be entered manually (making it incredibly difficult to react to game time injury news if you have to manually edit all the different lineups) + there is no practical way to use dummy lineups that you can change 5 min before tipoff.

    So will all the high-volume 100+ entries-in-a-single-contest guys just stop entering more lineups than they can manually manage? Will they simply make more -EV lineups that fail to take advantage of late breaking news? I doubt either of these two options are likely. What’s probably most likely is that they will continue using some iteration of their tools and DK will simply look the other way since it makes little business sense to start banning the very activity that is probably generating the most money for the company.

    And in the off chance that somehow someone gets outed for using outside scripts, DK can simply say that the user was an anomaly who geniusly “escaped detection.” The site will make an example out of him allthewhile maintaining the ridiculous notion that a person can profitably play 100+ lineups per contest day after day without any aid from automation.

    This is exactly what is going on.

    Period.

    It is back to where the high volume guys get to use their scripts, and nobody else does.

    It really, really sucks.

    It’s just .. it wrenches my gut to think that DK – you hit the nai on the head.

    ALl this does is take us back to last Summer where the pros all get to use scripts that the site cannot and/or will not enforce against, whereas we have a COMPLETELY USELESS TOOL

    I mean TRULY useless tool!

    Without the ability to edit, … it is just that, its a button on a page that ESPN is going to write a story about.

    The ACTUAL EFFECT is that the playing field will be WAY more unbalanced on jan 30th than it was a week ago.

    Really, truly pathetic on DK’s part. If they didn’t have me held hostage with the big golf GPPs I’d be totally and completely done there.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @yh4j said...

    RG has a tool that can upload and edit multiple lineups and DK is taking that away after this Friday. Pros will always find a workaround solution. It is really unfortunate. I sent an email to DK Support asking them to either add mass-editing function to the upload tool or keep RG tool available. Hopefully they can find a common-sense solution.

    Not every pro is a computer genius that can just write a workaround

  • dude_abides7

    @Shipmymoney said...

    Not every pro is a computer genius that can just write a workaround

    True, but the point is only one Pro needs to be in order for the entire system to be compromised.

    Edit: You are also assuming that guys with big rolls just can’t pay some guy in India to create said work around.

  • edro990

    Just my 2 cents, but there are choices to where we can play. Personally, I don’t play on DK anymore for several reasons, but I don’t feel they need to change how they do things to placate me. I choose to play elsewhere and don’t worry about things that are beyond my control.

  • Putz

    @edro990 said...

    Just my 2 cents, but there are choices to where we can play. Personally, I don’t play on DK anymore for several reasons, but I don’t feel they need to change how they do things to placate me. I choose to play elsewhere and don’t worry about things that are beyond my control.

    Until you have no where to play.

  • yh4j

    RG has a tool that can upload and edit multiple lineups and DK is taking that away after this Friday. Pros will always find a workaround solution. It is really unfortunate. I sent an email to DK Support asking them to either add mass-editing function to the upload tool or keep RG tool available. Hopefully they can find a common-sense solution.

  • dacoltz

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    @Baal said...

    I’m curious if DK will actually actively monitor and ban script users or if that’s just some optimistic PR angling. If there were previous instances where sites claimed that policing scripts are impractical, I wonder if/how DK made it feasible. A cynical side of me imagines that these new policies might be too laborious to actually enforce, but would accomplish the primary objective—-reducing some customers’ paranoia about scripts. Consider that almost all of their high volume players are mostly like using automation/scripting of some sort. The new on-site tool isn’t actually that useful at all for multi-entries since contests have to be entered manually (making it incredibly difficult to react to game time injury news if you have to manually edit all the different lineups) + there is no practical way to use dummy lineups that you can change 5 min before tipoff.

    So will all the high-volume 100+ entries-in-a-single-contest guys just stop entering more lineups than they can manually manage? Will they simply make more -EV lineups that fail to take advantage of late breaking news? I doubt either of these two options are likely. What’s probably most likely is that they will continue using some iteration of their tools and DK will simply look the other way since it makes little business sense to start banning the very activity that is probably generating the most money for the company.

    And in the off chance that somehow someone gets outed for using outside scripts, DK can simply say that the user was an anomaly who geniusly “escaped detection.” The site will make an example out of him allthewhile maintaining the ridiculous notion that a person can profitably play 100+ lineups per contest day after day without any aid from automation.

    This is exactly my concern as well. Disappointing that Draftkings didn’t think this through or put together a decent tool.

  • dude_abides7

    @buzz said...

    This is exactly my concern as well. Disappointing that Draftkings didn’t think this through or put together a decent tool.

    They thought it through just fine. They just decided to prioritize what they deemed was more important to them.

    We joke that these companies are run by monkeys, etc but the truth is that they are very tactical and know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it. If you feel that the whole of the user base is not being represented equally with these changes, it is because you are probably right..they aren’t.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @dude_abides7 said...

    They thought it through just fine. They just decided to prioritize what they deemed was more important to them.

    We joke that these companies are run by monkeys, etc but the truth is that they are very tactical and know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it. If you feel that the whole of the user base is not being represented equally with these changes, it is because you are probably right..they aren’t.

    I disagree that this hurts the low stakes/casual player. Under the assumption that there are a number of pros that will find a way around the system, this would hurt the pros/high stakes players that play within the rules much more than the guys playing a handful of lineups at small stakes. If I am a high stakes pro who finds a way to still bulk edit my lineups, that hurts you much more if you are a high stakes pro playing small field tournaments against me than if you are a low stakes guy playing against me in a 50,000 person tournament. Not to mention, if you aren’t playing a ton of lineups, it affects you even less because you can still easily edit all of your lineups.

  • dude_abides7

    @Shipmymoney said...

    Not to mention, if you aren’t playing a ton of lineups, it affects you even less because you can still easily edit all of your lineups.

    Operationally it does not affect you in your process of setting LU’s, but ultimately the guy that can bulk edit his LU’s gets an advantage that could better his chances of winning contests. That affects everyone.

    Remember, as of Friday DK deems the action of any script that is not theirs illegal to the terms of service. What will be their process to handle violators moving forward?

    If you believe that everyone that paid thousands of dollars to create an advanced script is just going to stop using it, I got a bridge to sell you. Especially if DK’s script is in any way inferior to their own. And even more especially if DK does not have a systematic measure in place to track non-DK scripts.

  • PDFOUR

    All the casual players I know are happy to hear this. They now feel they have a better chance to win and that this hurts all the experts out there. Whether or not that is factual is irrelevant to the point that they will play more, due to the perception that this hurts expert players and gives the small guys a chance. shrugs

  • Shipmymoney

    • 62

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    @dude_abides7 said...

    Operationally it does not affect you in your process of setting LU’s, but ultimately the guy that can bulk edit his LU’s gets an advantage that could better his chances of winning contests. That affects everyone.

    Remember, as of Friday DK deems the action of any script that is not theirs illegal to the terms of service. What will be their process to handle violators moving forward?

    If you believe that everyone that paid thousands of dollars to create an advanced script is just going to stop using it, I got a bridge to sell you. Especially if DK’s script is in any way inferior to their own. And even more especially if DK does not have a systematic measure in place to track non-DK scripts.

    I completely agree with you as far as if they are implementing this, they need to have a way to prevent non-DK scripts. My point was most of the people I have seen freaking out about this, are going to be so negligibly affected it is basically irrelevant to them. Whether or not Maxdalury has 500 lineups or whatever in the $3 sharpshooter has just about no bearing on whether or not they are going to win. And then people comment that this is catering to the high stakes guys, when in reality it hurts them the most if they are in the group that is not using non-DK scripts because they would actually have to play more directly against people with an unfair advantage.

    Basically I agree that DK needs to be able to enforce this. That is common sense. I disagree with all the people losing their mind over it who it isn’t even going to really affect because the only games they play with guys that use their own scripts have 40,000 other entries as well

  • DavidK44

    @PDFOUR said...

    All the casual players I know are happy to hear this. They now feel they have a better chance to win and that this hurts all the experts out there. Whether or not that is factual is irrelevant to the point that they will play more, due to the perception that this hurts expert players and gives the small guys a chance. shrugs

    This concept gets overlooked so often on this forum. Regardless of whether or not it ACTUALLY helps casual players, odds are casual players THINK it helps them.

    Perception matters. Casual players have bought into the B.S. mantra of “all these sharks with a massive bankroll, fancy algorithms and computer script that let them fire 500 lineups into each tournament that cover all the combos so they always win, it’s rigged!!!!”. Whether or not it’s true is irrelevant. Casual players THINK it’s true.

    Now, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe casual players don’t care at all. That’s a debate people can certainly have. But the casual/recreational players I’ve talked to definitely believe the above thought process, no matter how ridiculous it is, and no matter how much people like myself try to explain why they’re wrong, it doesn’t matter.

    So unless I’m mistaken, the perception matters. And this is a great compromise by the sites in that it addresses the PERCEPTION of scripts and multi-entry contest being won entirely by 500-entry pros using scripts and algorithms, while still letting people have a tool (despite being imperfect) for firing in multiple lineups if they so wish.

    If your product uses an entirely safe chemical that has no link to any medical harm, but your customers want you to stop using it because there’s some quack celebrity telling people that chemical causes ebola, and you can stop using the chemical without changing the product quality, you do it.

  • psychoman1

    Looks like the rotogrinders bulk edit feature is now disabled.. it’ll be interesting to see how it affects the GPPs tonight on DK.

  • gje627

    @psychoman1 said...

    Looks like the rotogrinders bulk edit feature is now disabled.. it’ll be interesting to see how it affects the GPPs tonight on DK.

    It’s still working for me. I just used it to edit 21 lineups with no problems.

  • psychoman1

    not sure how you’d do it but don’t let your browser update the extension (which my Chrome did automatically). The new version (0.8) removes the bulk-editing.

  • gje627

    @psychoman1 said...

    not sure how you’d do it but don’t let your browser update the extension (which my Chrome did automatically). The new version (0.8) removes the bulk-editing.

    I thought you meant the RG bulk edit feature was disabled by DK. Instead you’re saying the updated app by RG no longer includes the bulk edit feature. That’s good to know. I will wait until after the 29th to update the app then. Thank you.

    Also, I just saw the sticky post by RG staff explaining this change to their updated app.

  • jilesofthetrees

    • 2016 NASCAR Live Finalist

    FFS, god forbid people are able to bulk edit lineups. This is a steaming pile. I’ll be waiting for the positive spin piece of how this protects players. Any moment now.

  • gaspoopy

    Is it possible to roll back the automated RG import update? I am scrambling hard here with 600 entries coming up.

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