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  • DFSx42

    I came here with popcorn in hand but was pretty shocked to find no discussion of it.

    Worst part about it is that DK has an obvious case of cheating and yet promotes the win.

    This is just horrible. This tweet here sums it perfectly.

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214015801721868288?s=19

    Vote with your wallets folks. Boycott Draft Kings. We can’t just continue to sit back, watch this and continue paying rake when there’s so many other options out there.

  • superstars92

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #24

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @qatman said...

    For those who cannot see how the extra entries are unfair:

    Imagine the contest is winner take all (not too far off since 1st is ~40% of the entire prize pool). Having 300 unique lineups gives you 300 chances to win first prize. Having some duplicated lineups gives you fewer than 300 chances to win first prize. So if you can ensure (by colluding/multiaccounting) there is no overlap in any of your entries, you will have a better chance to win first prize.

    Personally I don’t think this is any different from other collusion/multiaccounting issues (Burrito Brothers) which should be banned but are not. Although rake is still the primary problem in DFS today.

    Well yes, everyone knows if you submit more entries you have a better chance to win. Your example is like saying if you buy more lottery tickets, you have a better chance to win the lottery. However, the thing here is how much does it improve your EV. It would only do so if your 151st-300th lineups are +EV on average. That’s just the math behind it. Otherwise, everyone would just buy as many lottery tickets as they can, but obviously, most won’t do this since they understand the math. All lottery tickets are -EV in this case, which makes it slightly different, so that’s why you have to know if your 151st-300th lineups are +EV or not.

    The question here isn’t really about improving EV or winning, I actually think it’s more of a rules or ethics thing. To make it about winning is bad because that would feed into the “no one cared until we won” argument, but actually if you know a few people on here, they’ve always cared, regardless if the colluders won or not.

    That’s why theDude, based on his previous posts, wouldn’t be that satisfied even if they just took away her prize and gave it to 2nd, because it doesn’t solve the larger issue.

  • bigez952

    @Sol88 said...

    Not everyone is cheating, that’s stupid, near sighted and bad for the industry. Bad take by Dan, he should know better.

    The data is public on DK. There’s no rampant cheating. It would show up in charts like the ones I posted.

    If people were rampantly colluding we’d see it and be able to point to it.

    We can’t. It’s not rampant.

    Dan never said everyone was cheating so the original poster overplayed that a little bit. Dan stated you would have to have your head in the sand if you don’t think this type of activity is being done by others. That doesn’t mean everyone is doing it but I do agree these are not the only two to ever do this on DK.

  • Sol88

    @bigez952 said...

    Dan never said everyone was cheating so the original poster overplayed that a little bit. Dan stated you would have to have your head in the sand if you don’t think this type of activity is being done by others. That doesn’t mean everyone is doing it but I do agree these are not the only two to ever do this on DK.

    It’s not happening, and if it is it’s so minor nobody can tell, which is the same as it’s not happening. Dan’s overplaying the current drama for clicks, and/or has a vendetta against collusion that he thinks is preventing him from winning or something.

    The data’s public. If there’s collision at all you’d be able to see it. This is a big deal now because the wildcard weekend lineups was crazy out of whack between Jade and Tanner making it obvious. There are no other obvious cases, at least without going back at older data or watching a few other groups like moklovin, but an easier hypothesis is that they are just using the same projections and models and not colluding.

    Dan is part of RG, who provide a lineup builder that would look just like collusion but obviously isn’t.

    Idk, throwing around accusations with no evidence is dangerous and stupid and he should be ashamed. Back it up if you make an accusation like that

  • dictator_teddy

    • 2017 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    Any trial attorneys here?

    Let’s say this goes to trial. The image from the Bachelor with her holding up a sign that says she doesn’t like her husband’s time spent playing fantasy football.

    How do you defend that? Oh that was months ago, now I love fantasy football and play thousands of dollars each slate and max entry? I mean, sure there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Tanner played both accounts simultaneously. But in a civil court, don’t you only need to prove a probable cause?

    If you bring in a few high volume DFS witnesses during trial, they can explain to the retards in the jury how unlikely two people build 300 LU and not have any overlap without collusion, especially with the way the player distributions matched up? On top of that, how many weekly max entry players (minimum a $3k a week habit) do not have any social media presence in the world of DFS or ever mentions playing DFS before this moment? Instead, anything in the past has her bemoaning the fact that Tanner plays fantasy football.

  • Unico10

    • 472

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #74

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @Kingspark35 said...

    A good listen indeed. Some of the points he made are interesting.

    For me, the standard of proof should be ‘reasonable doubt’.

    But who decides without a jury ?

    Wish he (and the rest of the “circle”) would be just as forceful in other instances…. the double standard is amazing.

    Example B: You and a group of friends collaborate in NFL contests to each draft different QBs and WRs, to guarantee you aren’t competing as directly with each other.”

    Anyone here ever tried to enter a high $$ satellite or qualifier and looked at the 2+2 or 1+1 from the Burrito Bros?

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Sol88 said...

    Not everyone is cheating, that’s stupid, near sighted and bad for the industry. Bad take by Dan, he should know better.

    The data is public on DK. There’s no rampant cheating. It would show up in charts like the ones I posted.

    If people were rampantly colluding we’d see it and be able to point to it.

    We can’t. It’s not rampant.

    Who said everyone is cheating? LOL nobody said that.

  • Sol88

    @thedude404 said...

    Who said everyone is cheating? LOL nobody said that.

    User said Dan implied it was rampant. Way to be needlessly pedantic. Good job.

    “I think the overwhelming themes through his podcast were 1. Yes many people are cheating “

  • superstars92

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #24

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @Sol88 said...

    There are no other obvious cases, at least without going back at older data or watching a few other groups like moklovin, but an easier hypothesis is that they are just using the same projections and models and not colluding.

    Yea there was another thread about this from a while back that convinced me of this. This is another issue (sharing projection models, optimizers), but this one cannot be controlled for because it would be unfair to ban websites like RG from giving projections since it’s a business. It would be like banning websites for giving stock advice since everyone bought the same stock. So guys like Moklovin will always get a pass even though everyone knows it’s happening.

    This issue discussed here in this thread could be banned but it’s just impossible to prove. The fact the optimizer projections you allude to above is not banned makes it so much harder to prove this case too, since anyone can just claim they used the same projection model to get a similar core, but then just swapped the QBs around because one person didn’t trust the other person’s QB picks (and it’s technically legal to share who you do and don’t like).

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @Sol88 said...

    User said Dan implied it was rampant.

    “I think the overwhelming themes through his podcast were 1. Yes many people are cheating “

    Maybe people should actually listen to the podcast, rather than relying on something someone else wrote/said. It takes less than 30 minutes. Pretty easy.

  • depalma13

    @superstars92 said...

    Everyone saying this could be right, but you can’t be 100% sure this is the case, and given the past situations, as long as there’s no camera actually showing what happened, the most likely outcome is nothing will get done.

    For everyone saying this, what is the actual logic that 100% proves he played all 300 lineups? It would be good if you guys can list that out because otherwise, it’s just going to be circumstantial evidence, and DK doesn’t care about circumstantial evidence.

    It is actually pretty easy to prove he is multi accounting. Just show one example where she entered a contest that he didn’t.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Sol88 said...

    It’s not happening, and if it is it’s so minor nobody can tell, which is the same as it’s not happening. Dan’s overplaying the current drama for clicks, and/or has a vendetta against collusion that he thinks is preventing him from winning or something.

    The data’s public. If there’s collision at all you’d be able to see it. This is a big deal now because the wildcard weekend lineups was crazy out of whack between Jade and Tanner making it obvious. There are no other obvious cases, at least without going back at older data or watching a few other groups like moklovin, but an easier hypothesis is that they are just using the same projections and models and not colluding.

    Dan is part of RG, who provide a lineup builder that would look just like collusion but obviously isn’t.

    Idk, throwing around accusations with no evidence is dangerous and stupid and he should be ashamed. Back it up if you make an accusation like that

    It’s so minor nobody can tell, which is the same as it’s not happening? You have GOT to be kidding me with that “logic”. Enough with your conspiracy theories that Dan is somehow trying to protect RG.

  • Sol88

    @sochoice said...

    Maybe people should actually listen to the podcast, rather than relying on something someone else wrote/said. It takes less than 30 minutes. Pretty easy.

    Lol not wasting 30 minutes thanks. Id rather rely on tl;drs. Are you saying that Dan did NOT say colluding was wide spread?

  • Sol88

    @thedude404 said...

    It’s so minor nobody can tell, which is the same as it’s not happening? You have GOT to be kidding me with that “logic”. Enough with your conspiracy theories that Dan is somehow trying to protect RG.

    Why would he be trying to protect RG? What does that even mean and how is it at all what you took away from my post… Whatever man, dropping this.

  • Sol88

    @depalma13 said...

    It is actually pretty easy to prove he is multi accounting. Just show one example where she entered a contest that he didn’t.

    DK can also look at things like deviceid and how entries were submitted. Using the same computer or device to upload is a red flag. Entering around the same time or within 20 minutes is a red flag, lots of stuff DK can look at to prove malice here.

  • depalma13

    @Rasmus said...

    I understand that violating the rules of a game is never a good thing and should be punished.
    Still i don’t get all the excitement about this. If he played just 150 lineups the expcted value of every single entry you did would still be the same. And it would be the same if he entered 3000 lineups. The expected value of villain’s lineups also doesn’t increase if he enters some hundred more lineups, it actually decreases with every lineup he enters more than one.
    If the 150 illegal extra slots would be filled with randoms instead of the actual pro lineups your chances to win a million would have been exactly the same (maybe 0.000001% more likely).
    Save your energy for what really draines your money and that is the rake and ur lack of skill. The pro’s and their lineups won’t go away, no matter how this case will end or how the rules are enforced by dk.

    I won a gpp the exact same day. Please stop with build better lineups nonsense. It’s tired, it’s old, and it is of no relevance.

  • superstars92

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #24

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @depalma13 said...

    It is actually pretty easy to prove he is multi accounting. Just show one example where she entered a contest that he didn’t.

    I wouldn’t go that far though. What if there was quite a few cases in which one entered and the other didn’t (just by accident)? That would actually hurt your hypothesis.

    I would say if someone finds her Instagram and sees she was at spot X without her husband on Day Y, but yet her account had entries being submitted at spot Z on Day Y where it is impossible for her to fly back to that location, then that’s a big red flag. Given she is a celebrity with a huge Instagram/Twitter following, this is actually possible to do, but no one’s going to do that since it’s so tedious.

  • depalma13

    @superstars92 said...

    I wouldn’t go that far though. What if there was quite a few cases in which one entered and the other didn’t (just by accident)? That would actually hurt your hypothesis.

    I would say if someone finds her Instagram and sees she was at spot X without her husband on Day Y, but yet her account had entries being submitted at spot Z on Day Y where it is impossible for her to fly back to that location, then that’s a big red flag. Given she is a celebrity with a huge Instagram/Twitter following, this is actually possible to do.

    I don’t think I have to worry about that. This guy was incredibly sloppy.

  • cwitt

    • Ranked #46

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Late to the party, has there been an update from DK on the situation? Or are they still investigating?

  • superstars92

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #24

      RG Tiered Ranking

    No one’s mentioned this but win or lose, they’ll become far more famous from this than before? I sense an Amazing Race appearance and some celebrity shows. They could literally win – win from this (win the 1 M, win in the future). Even if they somehow lost the 1 M, they probably benefit far more than 1 M from the future.

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    How about we put them on Springer and subject them to a lie detector test!

  • wolfjb1

    @superstars92 said...

    I said this in a couple of pages ago. It’s impossible to prove they did anything wrong. You can make huge assumptions involving math, involving their “reactions” on social media, involving the words they say, but it’s almost impossible to prove they actually colluded unless there is a camera showing everything. Ironically, a camera had been following their most important moments on Bachelor, but too bad there’s none in this situation.

    This part is interesting. If there was a lawsuit, one of the parties could subpoena all the camera footage – including that which wasn’t aired – and maybe they’d discover a conversation in which he and she were talking about colluding or just discussing their plans to do what they ended up doing.

    As others have posted, we know these people aren’t rocket scientists because all they had to do to escape being outed was not use their real names.

    It’s absolutely plausible that they set their lineups and talked about their scheme while cameras or audio were rolling.

  • squidkill

    Talking about this on 98.5 sports radio in Boston

  • damionismyname

    It’s on CNN now, the industry is in trouble.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @damionismyname said...

    It’s on CNN now, the industry is in trouble.

    And when it is not on CNN tomorrow, will the industry be ok?

  • Messiah717

    If I were the people finishing just below them I would be speaking to an attorney right now.

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