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  • DFSx42

    I came here with popcorn in hand but was pretty shocked to find no discussion of it.

    Worst part about it is that DK has an obvious case of cheating and yet promotes the win.

    This is just horrible. This tweet here sums it perfectly.

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214015801721868288?s=19

    Vote with your wallets folks. Boycott Draft Kings. We can’t just continue to sit back, watch this and continue paying rake when there’s so many other options out there.

  • tomac

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    I honestly think DK (and FD) backed themselves into a corner on this issue almost from day one and never recovered.

    From the very beginning you’ve had Condia/1Ucror, Csuram/Birdwings, Pepsi7/Klim, etc

    Back then the sites did nothing because they wanted Condia’s money so it was a huge invite to anyone else that wanted to create a second account.

    The sites always said, there’s nothing we can do, we verified these are two real people and each entitled to their own account.

    At that point the natural progression is Chipotle/Papagates where two brothers work together. Again, the sites said, this is ok with us they are two separate people.

    Now we are here and to be honest this isn’t all that different.

    These are two people who each have their own account. That puts the ball in the sites court to prove collusion and you really can’t because despite all the evidence in the world there is always some excuse that people can make and usually by the time DK/FD catch someone they are already playing so much volume that the site doesn’t want to put a stop to it.

    This right here is it. End of thread.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tomac said...

    This right here is it. End of thread.

    Except most of the ones he listed up above, were not teaming to circumvent the entry limits. We really need to focus on that issue and not guys teaming to build lineups, which is not against the rules.

    https://www.draftkings.com/community-guidelines (Example B: You work closely with a friend on building the perfect lineup together.)

  • Wander_Bread

    I wonder if anyone would have even made a stink about this if it was a full slate. Almost no duplication on only a 4 game slate makes the optics a lot worse.

  • WhiteyJones8

    @bhdevault said...

    Except most of the ones he listed up above, were not teaming to circumvent the entry limits. We really need to focus on that issue and not guys teaming to build lineups, which is not against the rules.

    https://www.draftkings.com/community-guidelines (Example B: You work closely with a friend on building the perfect lineup together.)

    The thing is that you can argue all the other situations are also circumventing the entry limit. The only difference here which is huge is that these two are married which means they ultimately share any winnings or losses. That’s not automatically the case with unrelated people.

    I think at a minimum we see a new policy that either limits to one account per household or or divides the number of entires in a contest to the amount of accounts in that household. Example: two accounts in house would be limited to 75 each in a 150 max contest.

  • bigez952

    @Wander_Bread said...

    I wonder if anyone would have even made a stink about this if it was a full slate. Almost no duplication on only a 4 game slate makes the optics a lot worse.

    Because the person who won is known as a D list celebrity this would blow up regardless of the slate size. Which really goes back to just how dumb it was to make her an account using her name and picture. If they just used a generic user name and not had her picture on the account this is a non issue and no one cares since it wouldn’t have been as easy to put the pieces together.

    However in saying all of that they probably still would have blown in on social media bragging about the win. If your going to cheat and circumvent entry limits they did about everything possible for the things that you shouldn’t do when multi accounting.

  • tomac

    @bhdevault said...

    Except most of the ones he listed up above, were not teaming to circumvent the entry limits. We really need to focus on that issue and not guys teaming to build lineups, which is not against the rules.

    https://www.draftkings.com/community-guidelines (Example B: You work closely with a friend on building the perfect lineup together.)

    Semantics. I’d argue the same duo running the same lineup night after night in a single entry double up is circumventing the entry limit. Or both entering the same 3-man contest with the same lineup is circumventing the entry limit. The only thing different here is those strategies simply reduces the number of lineups they had to beat, instead of increasing the number of lineups they had.

    The difference is slight. It isn’t the apples and oranges you think it is. It’s more like honey crisp and red delicious.

  • gvn2fly1421

    Waiting on Luke Louisons article sticking up for these two…

    https://rotogrinders.com/articles/the-dfs-angry-mob-s-toolbox-1889435?page=2

  • querb

    2nd place just lawyer’d up
    https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/1214945853863088128

  • WhiteyJones8

    @querb said...

    2nd place just lawyer’d up
    https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/1214945853863088128

    I wondered when this would happen. It’s kind of funny that people on this site often complain about the massive $900K drop for 1st to 2nd and now DK could pay the price for it.

    Even 3rd place has a claim for the difference between $40K and $100K.

  • infantryboys

    Looks like the guy who finished 2nd in the Milly Maker has hired a prominent lawyer who has litigated on behalf of guys like Melo and Iverson, in the past.

  • FrancisBooth

    About five or six years ago there was an MLB live final where a husband and wife were in it with separate lineups and the wife won if I’m not mistaken. The dude ended up being analyst on this site. In articles on this site weeks afterward there was an article saying that to win a big tournament you had to cover all your bases like the dude who won did (even though his wife actually “won”). At the time no one really said anything about it and like I said the dude ended up becoming analyst on this site. Without naming names (long time grinders will surely remember this) I don’t really see much of a difference in the two situations. Actually the only difference is that you could have maybe 4 entries max in the live final.

  • tomac

    @FrancisBooth said...

    About five or six years ago there was an MLB live final where a husband and wife were in it with separate lineups and the wife won if I’m not mistaken. The dude ended up being analyst on this site. In articles on this site weeks afterward there was an article saying that to win a big tournament you had to cover all your bases like the dude who won did (even though his wife actually “won”). At the time no one really said anything about it and like I said the dude ended up becoming analyst on this site. Without naming names (long time grinders will surely remember this) I don’t really see much of a difference in the two situations. Actually the only difference is that you could have maybe 4 entries max in the live final.

    I posted the link to that story on the previous page. Best part of the whole thing is Ethan discusses ownership percentage in the article. Its almost the DFS Conspiracy Theorist’s Perfect Storm.

  • dictator_teddy

    • 195

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    I wondered when this would happen. It’s kind of funny that people on this site often complain about the massive $900K drop for 1st to 2nd and now DK could pay the price for it.

    Even 3rd place has a claim for the difference between $40K and $100K.

    So are the defandants DK or Jade/Tanner? I guess it would make sense to just sue DK since they are the deep pockets and you can say they wrongfully paid the cheaters instead of going after the cheaters themselves?

  • bigez952

    @FrancisBooth said...

    About five or six years ago there was an MLB live final where a husband and wife were in it with separate lineups and the wife won if I’m not mistaken. The dude ended up being analyst on this site. In articles on this site weeks afterward there was an article saying that to win a big tournament you had to cover all your bases like the dude who won did (even though his wife actually “won”). At the time no one really said anything about it and like I said the dude ended up becoming analyst on this site. Without naming names (long time grinders will surely remember this) I don’t really see much of a difference in the two situations. Actually the only difference is that you could have maybe 4 entries max in the live final.

    The big difference to me is DK rolled out these community guidelines and terms to help build the integrity of the game for the little guy only a few years ago. None of this was in place back then. For me at least if DK was like Fan Duel and openly doesn’t enforce things like lineup selling and collusion this is a non issue. To me this comes down to Dk really hitting hard the last 2 years that they take the integrity of the game seriously so here is another chance for them to prove that vs. just saying it.

  • FrancisBooth

    @tomac said...

    I posted the link to that story on the previous page. Best part of the whole thing is Ethan discusses ownership percentage in the article. Its almost the DFS Conspiracy Theorist’s Perfect Storm.

    Sorry I hadn’t made it to the end of this three volume epic set

  • FrancisBooth

    @bigez952 said...

    The big difference to me is DK rolled out these community guidelines and terms to help build the integrity of the game for the little guy only a few years ago. None of this was in place back then. For me at least if DK was like Fan Duel and openly doesn’t enforce things like lineup selling and collusion this is a non issue. To me this comes down to Dk really hitting hard the last 2 years that they take the integrity of the game seriously so here is another chance for them to prove that vs. just saying it.

    I get that but it’s just funny to me that six years ago this very site celebrated a husband and wife colluding and even hired the husband on for content.

  • mtdurham

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    I wondered when this would happen. It’s kind of funny that people on this site often complain about the massive $900K drop for 1st to 2nd and now DK could pay the price for it.

    Even 3rd place has a claim for the difference between $40K and $100K.

    You dont understand. DK runs these prize pools because it’s what ALL THE PLAYERS WANT

    They remind of us this everyday in their smug player rep thread when everyone complains about their companies ludicrous operating strategy and outright illegal consumer protection policies.

    I hope their company gets sued, their management team gets fired, and their name is synonymous with incompetence and value destruction for generations to come.

    DraftKings is an evil company. they are no ones friend. If they were an ice cream flavor they’d be pralines and d***.

    Now excuse me I gotta get back to making my golf lineups.

  • stv1313

    @querb said...

    2nd place just lawyer’d up
    https://twitter.com/McCannSportsLaw/status/1214945853863088128

    If nothing else, this means that Draftkings has told the 2nd place finisher that there is a 0% chance that people will “ladder up” if/when the 1st place finisher is disqualified.

  • WhiteyJones8

    @FrancisBooth said...

    I get that but it’s just funny to me that six years ago this very site celebrated a husband and wife colluding and even hired the husband on for content.

    If you really want to have some fun look into an account named Yellowsub.

    A high volume player hit the self exclude button and thus couldn’t play for 6 months. Suddenly, a new account popped up and started playing high volume. Even qualified for a live final. After the other account was eligible to play the new one disappeared forever.

    Pretty amazing. The guy came out of nowhere. Won the 2017 DFBC then just flat quit playing in Feb 2018

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/yellowsub

  • Sol88

    @tomac said...

    Semantics. I’d argue the same duo running the same lineup night after night in a single entry double up is circumventing the entry limit. Or both entering the same 3-man contest with the same lineup is circumventing the entry limit. The only thing different here is those strategies simply reduces the number of lineups they had to beat, instead of increasing the number of lineups they had.

    The difference is slight. It isn’t the apples and oranges you think it is. It’s more like honey crisp and red delicious.

    No it’s not the same thing. Discussing or building one perfect lineup is fine. They’re competing directly with each other in those contests.

    And entering a 3man with the same lineup is beyond stupid and terrible EV. As the opponent you now just have to beat 1 LU to get paid. When you see this happen you can breathe a sigh of relief that collusion isn’t an issue in DFS the way you think it is, as it’s about as close to proof that they’re not colluding as you can possibly get.

    Now … What is super illegal is working on your H2H or DU lineup together, then entering 3-mans with different lineups. That’s clearly a violation and collusion given it necessarily implies working together and communicating contest entry lineup strategy.

  • gunthie176

    @stv1313 said...

    If nothing else, this means that Draftkings has told the 2nd place finisher that there is a 0% chance that people will “ladder up” if/when the 1st place finisher is disqualified.

    so if this is the case, DK just makes away with an extra $1MM in rake on this tournament?

  • infantryboys

    @gunthie176 said...

    so if this is the case, DK just makes away with an extra $1MM in rake on this tournament?

    Yeah, that would literally be the stupidest thing they could possibly do.

  • Sol88

    @infantryboys said...

    Yeah, that would literally be the stupidest thing they could possibly do.

    And obviously not what they’d ever do, not worth discussing.

  • wolfjb1

    Lawyering 101: Go after the deep pockets.

    Demand letter to DK threatening a lawsuit (or arbitration filing per the TOS) unless they give second place guy his rightfully earned million. Give ‘em 10 days to respond. File suit/arbitration immediately thereafter.

    The goal of the lawyers representing the parties isn’t to straighten out the neverending collusion, it’s to get money for the clients. If I represent this guy, I want him to get his million; I don’t give a rat’s ass whether DK fixes its institutional problems.

    Now let’s see if #3, #4, #700, etc., also lawyer up!

  • Xmas32

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    If you really want to have some fun look into an account named Yellowsub.

    A high volume player hit the self exclude button and thus couldn’t play for 6 months. Suddenly, a new account popped up and started playing high volume. Even qualified for a live final. After the other account was eligible to play the new one disappeared forever.

    Pretty amazing. The guy came out of nowhere. Won the 2017 DFBC then just flat quit playing in Feb 2018

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/yellowsub

    I remember Yellowsub from the online poker golden days. His name was Jeff something and he was a certified crusher on Pokerstars.

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