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  • DFSx42

    I came here with popcorn in hand but was pretty shocked to find no discussion of it.

    Worst part about it is that DK has an obvious case of cheating and yet promotes the win.

    This is just horrible. This tweet here sums it perfectly.

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214015801721868288?s=19

    Vote with your wallets folks. Boycott Draft Kings. We can’t just continue to sit back, watch this and continue paying rake when there’s so many other options out there.

  • WhiteyJones8

    @Xmas32 said...

    I remember Yellowsub from the online poker golden days. His name was Jeff something and he was a certified crusher on Pokerstars.

    Correct, it was a real person that owned the account. He just loaned it to a friend for a short while. Kind of like this. And the answer that time was, “the account belongs to a real person so nothing we can do”

  • osuryanf

    We all know how this is going to end so there’s not really much to discuss…

    The only smart person involved in all of this is the 2nd place finisher who now has an attorney representing him. Guarantee the lawyer contacted him and said it’ll be a contingency fee type case. As in, the attorney only takes money if he wins the case. He could get another $900,000 and pay the attorney maybe 10% or something, while losing literally nothing if he loses the case. Smart guy/girl.

  • yisman

    The fees on contingency cases are more than 10%, by the way.

  • WhiteyJones8

    @osuryanf said...

    We all know how this is going to end so there’s not really much to discuss…

    The only smart person involved in all of this is the 2nd place finisher who now has an attorney representing him. Guarantee the lawyer contacted him and said it’ll be a contingency fee type case. As in, the attorney only takes money if he wins the case. He could get another $900,000 and pay the attorney maybe 10% or something, while losing literally nothing if he loses the case. Smart guy/girl.

    The only thing is that DK has a mandatory arbitration clause in their TOS and courts have been hesitant to litigate those type of cases. The 2nd place guy’s case is going to binding arbitration. Can he win there? Sure, but I also wouldn’t count on it. You are right though that he loses nothing by trying and I’d probably do the same thing.

  • infantryboys

    @yisman said...

    The fees on contingency cases are more than 10%, by the way.

    Right. Attorneys fees in cases like this are usually 33% plus expenses.

  • wolfjb1

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    The only thing is that DK has a mandatory arbitration clause in their TOS and courts have been hesitant to litigate those type of cases. The 2nd place guy’s case is going to binding arbitration. Can he win there? Sure, but I also wouldn’t count on it. You are right though that he loses nothing by trying and I’d probably do the same thing.

    Arbitration forums are generally pro-business and anti-consumer, but arbitration is essentially a private trial with relaxed rules of evidence and procedure. But that’s a broad generalization and it’s not like an individual can’t win. So, yeah, second place can definitely win.

  • Jvanspro

    @osuryanf said...

    We all know how this is going to end so there’s not really much to discuss…

    The only smart person involved in all of this is the 2nd place finisher who now has an attorney representing him. Guarantee the lawyer contacted him and said it’ll be a contingency fee type case. As in, the attorney only takes money if he wins the case. He could get another $900,000 and pay the attorney maybe 10% or something, while losing literally nothing if he loses the case. Smart guy/girl.

    This will be much higher then 10%, probably looking closer to 40-50%, still a win for the 2nd place player.

  • WhiteyJones8

    @wolfjb1 said...

    Arbitration forums are generally pro-business and anti-consumer, but arbitration is essentially a private trial with relaxed rules of evidence and procedure. But that’s a broad generalization and it’s not like an individual can’t win. So, yeah, second place can definitely win.

    No real downside for 2nd place guy. He already won $100K. Knowing DK they would probably offer to settle outside of arbitration. Maybe he picks up another $200K? Easiest money ever.

    The only downside I can think of is that DK bans his account just for filing the suit and he can’t play anymore. There’s always FD though.

  • bigez952

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    No real downside for 2nd place guy. He already won $100K. Knowing DK they would probably offer to settle outside of arbitration. Maybe he picks up another $200K? Easiest money ever.

    The only downside I can think of is that DK bans his account just for filing the suit and he can’t play anymore. There’s always FD though.

    If your married and you get your account banned it would be a good time for your wife to pick up DFS as if that was the way things went down DK would have made it obviously clear that sharing accounts between husband and wife doesn’t matter.

  • msg365

    @superstars92 said...

    Also no one’s mentioned this, but it’s crazy to submit 300 or even 400 lineups into a 2.25 M dollar GPP that pays like 1 M to first.

    Even if I could submit 300 or 400 lineups, I would absolutely not choose to do that. You basically have to win the 1 M or at least like top 5 the GPP to be worth it, and yes in this case they won the 1 M, but most likely you are going to be down.

    you couldn’t be more wrong. i’ve made most of my money on showdown slates BECAUSE i max entered. if you don’t hit, then sure it’s more likely than not that you have a losing night (definitely not always the case), but if you do hit then you turn $1350 or $3000 into 150k- 300k if it’s a solo ship. showdowns lead to a lot of duplicates so it’s sometimes the winner only gets 3k or 30k or 75k etc. but you put yourself in the best position to hit first place. a 4 game playoff slate is the perfect spot to again try to get in as many lineups as possible because the number of lineup combinations is drastically reduced. the point is that if you have a large bankroll and can do this over and over until you hit, then it’s most defiinitely a strategy that can yield very positive results

  • rgreuli

    @WhiteyJones8 said...

    No real downside for 2nd place guy. He already won $100K. Knowing DK they would probably offer to settle outside of arbitration. Maybe he picks up another $200K? Easiest money ever.

    The only downside I can think of is that DK bans his account just for filing the suit and he can’t play anymore. There’s always FD though.

    Perhaps they entice him to drop the suit with a promise of additional crowns.

  • Gasou4389

    @msg365 said...

    you couldn’t be more wrong. i’ve made most of my money on showdown slates BECAUSE i max entered. if you don’t hit, then sure it’s more likely than not that you have a losing night (definitely not always the case), but if you do hit then you turn $1350 or $3000 into 150k- 300k if it’s a solo ship. showdowns lead to a lot of duplicates so it’s sometimes the winner only gets 3k or 30k or 75k etc. but you put yourself in the best position to hit first place. a 4 game playoff slate is the perfect spot to again try to get in as many lineups as possible because the number of lineup combinations is drastically reduced. the point is that if you have a large bankroll and can do this over and over until you hit, then it’s most defiinitely a strategy that can yield very positive results

    Good point. If he was smarter, he would have been doing this with SD not Milly Maker

  • superstars92

    @msg365 said...

    you couldn’t be more wrong. i’ve made most of my money on showdown slates BECAUSE i max entered. if you don’t hit, then sure it’s more likely than not that you have a losing night (definitely not always the case), but if you do hit then you turn $1350 or $3000 into 150k- 300k if it’s a solo ship. showdowns lead to a lot of duplicates so it’s sometimes the winner only gets 3k or 30k or 75k etc. but you put yourself in the best position to hit first place. a 4 game playoff slate is the perfect spot to again try to get in as many lineups as possible because the number of lineup combinations is drastically reduced. the point is that if you have a large bankroll and can do this over and over until you hit, then it’s most defiinitely a strategy that can yield very positive results

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

  • mtdurham

    @superstars92 said...

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

    It’s all starting to make sense. These artificial “winner take all” prize pools incentivize players to skirt the entry fee limits thus multiaccounting and entering even MORE lineups.

    The more they enter the more rake generated. Then those players win all the money so they can double max enter everything.

    Meanwhile the peasants are forced to re-deposit like an stimulant addicted rat hitting the pellet feeder bar.

    Today we are all pavlov’s dog

  • infantryboys

    @superstars92 said...

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

    That’s me. I won’t play in top heavy contests like the Milly. I prefer contests with about 10% of the prize pool. Last week 3rd place only paid $40K compared to the million for 1st. If I came in 3rd I think I’d be more likely to want to jump off a bridge rather than celebrate winning $40K.

  • Felixxberg

    • 2019 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

    I think what he means is that in Showdown, the number of possible lineups is way smaller, which means that if you could circumvent the rules and enter 1000 lineups instead of 150, you’d be likely to hit the $100K+ prize soon enough. The fact that the contest is top heavy doesn’t matter when you’re likely to win it.

    That said, I hate top heavy contests too and I think they’ll be the end of DFS, but we’ll see. Even if I could enter 1000 lineups in the normal 13+ game slate milly makers, I would never do it. In Showdown, I would probably do it if I was allowed to and I knew no one else could.

  • superstars92

    @Felixxberg said...

    I think what he means is that in Showdown, the number of possible lineups is way smaller, which means that if you could circumvent the rules and enter 1000 lineups instead of 150, you’d be likely to hit the $100K+ prize soon enough. The fact that the contest is top heavy doesn’t matter when you’re likely to win it.

    That said, I hate top heavy contests too and I think they’ll be the end of DFS, but we’ll see. Even if I could enter 1000 lineups in the normal 13+ game slate milly makers, I would never do it. In Showdown, I would probably do it if I was allowed to and I knew no one else could.

    Yea to clarify, your EV doesn’t change, but your expected time to realize your EV changes.

    I think I mentioned this earlier, you basically should submit up to the amount of lineups such that the marginal cost of the next lineup isn’t going to bring it to -EV. So if your 151st-300th lineup are +EV, of course it’s better to enter 300 if you could.

    My point really was due to the top heavy payout of the MM (compared to other contests), you pretty much never realize this +EV, even if the EV is the same. When you do realize it, it is like this case, you just win it all and overrealize it. As a result, most people don’t want to submit that next marginal lineup in a top heavy MM contest (which is me, along with others, that’s why I brought it up).

    I don’t know about this covering all bases thing just because there are 4 games. It’s also only 4 games for the rest of the field too, so each next marginal lineup has the same “effect”, if that makes sense. While you have an individual advantage to cover more possiblities, your next lineup isn’t necessarily +EV relative to the field. Otherwise, an extreme case is you are the only guy who enters the MM. In that case, you can submit the max number of entries into the contest (whatever the total number of avaliable entries is). You will win the MM and every other prize, but your EV is still negative, and percisely, it equals the rake.

    So that’s all I was thinking. To be clear, if you are a +EV player, you definitely want to submit as many lineups as possible, I think we all agree on that. It’s just that I also consider like time to realize EV (time “variance”) so that’s why I brought up my example.

  • msg365

    @superstars92 said...

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

    the reason i mentioned the SD contests is because of the smaller combination of potential lineups. if first place is so top heavy as you say, then it makes the most sense to put in as many lineups as possible to get first, otherwise why even throw in 5, 10, 20 lineups if your payout for simply placing is trash? if it was a contest where first place only made 5% of the total pool and was more evenly dispersed for the rest of the payouts, it would make zero sense to max enter and would make the most sense to only play optimal lineups.

  • mambaland

    i was in a 3 man event last night and 2 if the guys had almost exact lineup except for 2 guys and they were in about 15 3 man games..same thing smaller scale

  • msg365

    @Felixxberg said...

    I think what he means is that in Showdown, the number of possible lineups is way smaller, which means that if you could circumvent the rules and enter 1000 lineups instead of 150, you’d be likely to hit the $100K+ prize soon enough. The fact that the contest is top heavy doesn’t matter when you’re likely to win it.

    That said, I hate top heavy contests too and I think they’ll be the end of DFS, but we’ll see. Even if I could enter 1000 lineups in the normal 13+ game slate milly makers, I would never do it. In Showdown, I would probably do it if I was allowed to and I knew no one else could.

    exactly, which is why in the case where there are only 4 games on a main slate, it is an enormous advantage to put in more lineups because you can cover a large percentage of potential winning lineups (like on showdown slates)

  • IronMonkey415

    So in other words, People are going to max enter this upcoming weekend for a higher percentage of getting a winning lineup.
    This weekend is similar to last weekend.

  • keephustlincuz

    @IronMonkey415 said...

    So in other words, People are going to max enter this upcoming weekend for a higher percentage of getting a winning lineup.
    This weekend is similar to last weekend.

    I really don’t think dk knows how many people are violating the tos.

    10 people could be working together using a VPN and there would be no way to prove this or stop it.

  • jjwd

    @mtdurham said...

    It’s all starting to make sense. These artificial “winner take all” prize pools incentivize players to skirt the entry fee limits thus multiaccounting and entering even MORE lineups.

    The more they enter the more rake generated. Then those players win all the money so they can double max enter everything.

    Nope, they incentivize people to max enter 150, as others have been discussing here. In order for DK to be fishing for law-breakers they would have to be one of the dumbest companies ever.

  • Sol88

    @mambaland said...

    i was in a 3 man event last night and 2 if the guys had almost exact lineup except for 2 guys and they were in about 15 3 man games..same thing smaller scale

    You lucked out, you only had to beat like 1.2 lineups to win the whole thing.

  • MrFreeze53

    @Xmas32 said...

    I remember Yellowsub from the online poker golden days. His name was Jeff something and he was a certified crusher on Pokerstars.

    Jeff Williams was his name, strong fro was his game.

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