INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • DFSx42

    I came here with popcorn in hand but was pretty shocked to find no discussion of it.

    Worst part about it is that DK has an obvious case of cheating and yet promotes the win.

    This is just horrible. This tweet here sums it perfectly.

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214015801721868288?s=19

    Vote with your wallets folks. Boycott Draft Kings. We can’t just continue to sit back, watch this and continue paying rake when there’s so many other options out there.

  • Messiah717

    When you as a company turn a blind eye for years. This is eventually what happens. Now, as expected the second place finisher has retained an attorney and this is a complete mess.

  • bigez952

    @superstars92 said...

    I’m not quite understanding how your SD example relates to the fact the prize pool is like 40% to first?

    Pretty sure a lot of players don’t like the fact the prize pool is 40% to first and get turned off by it.

    The higher % that gets paid to 1st makes it better to have more entries and those contests are generally first or bust. High volume MME prefer too heavy contests as they know they only need a couple hits to make an entire season whereas if the payouts were flat they would have to tighten up their player pool and consistently be good to make lots of money.

  • SkateFiend

    They should just legalize this kind of collaboration, which isn’t “cheating” in the sense that they used some insider knowledge that wasn’t available to the rest of the field. Some pros pool their resources to boost their entries from multiple accounts and the winning stays within the unit / family. It’s only illegal if lineups aren’t created independently – or that’s how I understand the rules.

    If DFS existed back when I was in college my roommates and I may have played as unit, hedging our bets on entries and splitting winnings. It would be impossible to prove, especially if we paid attention to overlap to avoid suspicion. It’s not something that can enforced. And if they enforce it on pros, they have to enforce it on fishes, and there are probably fishes who also like to play this way.

    Theoretically small players like me are victimized when a pro skirts TOS to play 150 additional lineups that “I” could have played. But truthfully I probably could have also played 150 lineups if I had the bankroll. And 80-90% of those bonus lineups (I could be wrong) either failed to cash or didn’t win all that much money. I imagine a lot of them were intentionally risky or obtuse for the sake of covering bases, meaning the pros essentially donated a boatload of money to the pool on nights when they’re not profitable.

    What are for the choices for DK? They can either enforce the law, or restructure their site to like Yahoo so the incentive to collude becomes lower. I think DFS will become more low stakes when sites like DK cross over the gambling. It would be a nice side source of revenue.

  • spx333

    • x2

      2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    still cant believe that general randone had his head so far up his own azz that he cost his buddy $1mm

  • bozzburg

    This is why I won’t touch DFS anymore and haven’t in months. I don’t think you can blame any specific platform either. Once I really got into advanced DFS I quickly learned it was a game of mass numbers. I took down some SE contests for some nice wins but getting into ME GPP’s, hitting those is for the collusion syndicates.

    When looking at the way these 300 LU’s were submitted it’s clearly a case of he wanted to play another 150 entries to expand LU coverage. DFS in the ME game is made for an environment of questionable activities.

    This is a really easy fix. Make everything SE. That and make ownership percentages public knowledge not by guess but by the platforms themselves. Let ME and EVERYONE else decide for themselves whether or not ownership is lopsided.

    The end game is, DK will pay them the winnings and then ban the accounts. Honestly with the track record, I see them possibly not paying the winnings. But to solely blame DK would be foolish. This happens on a daily basis on every DFS platform that exists by all the same people.

  • Cocomilk

    @jjwd said...

    Nope, they incentivize people to max enter 150, as others have been discussing here. In order for DK to be fishing for law-breakers they would have to be one of the dumbest companies ever.

    what is the 150 incentive when you can get beat by a single bullet or a syndicate entering 300 or in this case 400 entries?

  • madmanjayWV

    Has DK paid the woman yet or NOT?

    Any update on this DK investigation? I’m not seeing the DK rep chime in here.

  • jjwd

    @bozzburg said...

    This is a really easy fix. Make everything SE.

    this is a preposterous idea which would effectively end dfs

  • spx333

    • x2

      2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @DavidPurdum

    3h
    As of this afternoon, three days later, DraftKings has not released the $1 million prize to Jade Roper Tolbert, the former contestant on The Bachelor, who finished with the most points in last weekend’s NFL fantasy contest. DraftKings continues to review the situation.

  • spx333

    • x2

      2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @DavidPurdum

    9h
    The purported DFS player who finished second to Jade Roper Tolbert, a former contestant on The Bachelor, in the controversial DraftKings fantasy football contest this past weekend has hired attorney Alan Milstein (
    amilst44 ). First-reported by McCannSportsLaw
    .

  • spx333

    • x2

      2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    https://youtu.be/UM5V0qZbEF0

  • superstars92

    • 141

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #19

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @bigez952 said...

    The higher % that gets paid to 1st makes it better to have more entries and those contests are generally first or bust. High volume MME prefer too heavy contests as they know they only need a couple hits to make an entire season whereas if the payouts were flat they would have to tighten up their player pool and consistently be good to make lots of money.

    I actually don’t agree with that. That is how you pretty much go bust if you don’t realize this EV by winning one of them. I would think most people would want a return that’s more steady (like a 45 degree line with a few zigzags) than one with zigzags all over the place.

    Basically, I think of it this: If they both have the same EV on average (which they do, you agree right?), I would always choose the return that has less variance. That’s just my opinion, but perhaps that’s because I’ve been in finance too long haha where we care about Sharpe ratios.

    It’s totally fine though, just difference in opinion. I completely understand what you guys are saying though.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    Mod Note

    Guys, this thread started getting way off topic again. This thread is about a couple allegedly teaming together to circumvent the 150 limit rule. You are more than welcome to find one of the many thread on the Main Forum (they may possibly be on the 2nd or 3rd page now) which discusses duplicate lineups, etc. and comment there.

    Once again, please read the Draftkings community guidelines as it may better help you understand what is allowed and what isn’t: https://www.draftkings.com/community-guidelines

    ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIORS
    Example B: You work closely with a friend on building the perfect lineup together.

    UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIORS
    Example: A contest has a maximum of 10 entries. You put in 10 entries but want to play more so you give your friend 10 additional lineups to play in the contest.

    I went ahead and deleted the posts that were quickly getting this thread off track again. You are more than welcome to email moderation@rotogrinders.com if you wish to discuss.

    Thanks.

  • livetorace17

    The more I’ve thought about it, the more I think there’s not really much to complain about. It’s an interesting story, sure.

    However what exactly is the problem? The guy has more money than me and can afford to submit $7,500 in lineups? I can’t afford that type of sharky spend so I don’t jump in the pool. That’s like me realllllly wanting a new Ferrari, but only being able to afford a Miata. What do I do? I buy the Miata, take it to the track and be happy about it. I’ll watch the Ferrari’s and make it a goal of mine to get there one day, but I’m not going to be constantly jealous of the Ferrari owners either.

    There’s no law saying he can’t have 2 accounts or 20 accounts, right? The law says 150 entries for one account, right? Which apparently is a law in MA but I’m unsure of anywhere else.

    Now conversely, Draftkings has a seemingly flimsy TOS that is written to prevent public trials for exactly this situation. They can “settle” with everyone, say its taken care of, come out with a press release as such and move on like nothing ever happened. Did he violate DKs TOS? That still seems to be a question to me that hasn’t been fully answered. It is purposefully vague because they need to have something there to make people feel good about the integrity, etc etc. If you follow the letter of the TOS, I’m willing to wager that we have all violated, knowingly or otherwise, before.

    “Circumventing” entry limits is a known “issue.” If we all had the money and the time, we would all have everyone (wives, kids, moms, dads) signed up and be running many accounts with VPNs and no one would be the wiser – Like I’m sure many folks already are doing now. There is simply no way to prove this and there won’t be a reliable way anytime soon. I can simply say my wife used my phone to enter her lineups. We share a computer. Dramatic Gasp we share an optimizer!

    This is not the apocalyptic end of DFS. On the contrary, this is a massive PR boon for all involved – if anything this will bolster the ranks I would assume.

  • smokeyca14

    Pay them…

  • Njsum1

    @bozzburg said...

    This is a really easy fix. Make everything SE. That and make ownership percentages public knowledge not by guess but by the platforms themselves. Let ME and EVERYONE else decide for themselves whether or not ownership is lopsided.

    Second time I’ve seen this idea mentioned. IMO….it’s a terrible idea considering today’s DFS climate. It would be one sites optimal versus another. 60% of the GPP would be duped lineups. Multi entry to some extent is necessary.

  • Zieg30

    @livetorace17 said...

    However what exactly is the problem? The guy has more money than me and can afford to submit $7,500 in lineups? I can’t afford that type of sharky spend so I don’t jump in the pool. That’s like me realllllly wanting a new Ferrari, but only being able to afford a Miata. What do I do? I buy the Miata, take it to the track and be happy about it. I’ll watch the Ferrari’s and make it a goal of mine to get there one day, but I’m not going to be constantly jealous of the Ferrari owners either.

    Someone else buying a Ferrari doesn’t hurt my ability to buy a Miata or any other car.

    The guy gained an advantage over the field by circumventing DK’s TOS/entry limits (yes, whether he did so has been “fully answered”, though not conclusively proven). It wasn’t a large advantage, but it was present, and he violated the rules. I still think he should get the money and then be banned for a period of time, and it’s not a huge deal overall, but there does have to be some consequence for violating the rules and gaining that advantage over the field as a result.

    It’s not a “nothing to see here” moment.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Only four days in and this discussion is already running out of steam. Thought it has at least a week in it. Once NFL contests kick up this weekend, everyone will be playing again and the whole thing forgotten except for DK doing its investigative work.

  • fightingjohn

    @sochoice said...

    Only four days in and this discussion is already running out of steam. Thought it has at least a week in it. Once NFL contests kick up this weekend, everyone will be playing again and the whole thing forgotten except for DK doing its investigative work.

    Yep time to figure out how to get in on this new 300 lineups you can do………lol

  • tomac

    @fightingjohn said...

    Yep time to figure out how to get in on this new 300 lineups you can do………lol

    If this isn’t determined by Saturday, if you ain’t circumventing, you ain’t trying.

  • emnj69

    @fightingjohn said...

    Yep time to figure out how to get in on this new 300 lineups you can do………lol

    why stop at 300 ? why not get 50 of your closest friends and enter 7500 line ups- or 100 to enter 15,000 line ups-if two can do it so can 25 50 or 100
    people
    they should eliminate entry limits that is the only way to be transparent -if they cant enforce them what is the point of having them

  • Zieg30

    @emnj69 said...

    they should eliminate entry limits that is the only way to be transparent -if they cant enforce them what is the point of having them

    This has been answered many times on this thread. Certain state laws require them.

  • emnj69

    @Zieg30 said...

    This has been answered many times on this thread. Certain state laws require them.

    I have read that but was not sure it was accurate-if the states require them then I suspect states will step in when not followed
    you cant have rules because states require them and then not follow them

  • Njsum1

    @emnj69 said...

    they should eliminate entry limits that is the only way to be transparent -if they cant enforce them what is the point of having them

    I agree…as long as it leads to much better pay structures in these GPP’s. Granted the single entry guy will almost never win, yet it still should increase the expected value for the 1 lineup casual player as the there would be a lot more terrible lineups.

    With the increased money these milly/Milly type tournaments, should now be able to pay out 25% of the field at 2x the buy-in for a min cash, and the lineups would likely be a little softer as well.

    In theory, the people that the 150 max rule was instituted to protect should actually be better off with no entry limit, as long as the pay structures change to the parameters mentioned above.

  • jayzee666

    @sochoice said...

    Only four days in and this discussion is already running out of steam. Thought it has at least a week in it. Once NFL contests kick up this weekend, everyone will be playing again and the whole thing forgotten except for DK doing its investigative work.

    Don’t worry. In another 2-3 weeks ChipotleAddict will win a Milly Maker contest and a new thread will start up! Happens at least once a month.

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