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  • DFSx42

    I came here with popcorn in hand but was pretty shocked to find no discussion of it.

    Worst part about it is that DK has an obvious case of cheating and yet promotes the win.

    This is just horrible. This tweet here sums it perfectly.

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214015801721868288?s=19

    Vote with your wallets folks. Boycott Draft Kings. We can’t just continue to sit back, watch this and continue paying rake when there’s so many other options out there.

  • tmarohl

    @emnj69 said...

    if they want to go public transparency will be important-

    DFS is probably a drop in the bucket long term for DK, going public is all about sports gambling.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    Yea I have no idea why it is 150 max anyways when that clearly isn’t really enforced. That is an entirely separate question which I do have the answer for.

    This is why you need someone OTHER than DK investigating this. That’s why gaming boards exist. They are the ones that should be doing the investigations here, not DK. You think DK actually WANTS to find someone cheating? LOL!

  • superstars92

    Here’s a better question for you guys. Has anyone EVER been caught circumventing the 150 rule limit? If the answer is no, why is this a rule to begin with? Just for show and tell?

  • lfn1992

    The issue is not Milly contests per se IMO but with Milly contests on clear short 4 game slates. I think in many ways this is unique to DK’s choice to run 4 game Millys with such a limited number of players that could “go off”.

    You had 8 QBs to choose from. With 300 LUs you can cover all 8.

    You had 3 stud RBs (Kamara, Cook, Singletary). Easy to cover all 3

    At receiver you had 5-6 studs like Metcalf and MT then a bunch of crapshoots. All you need to do is find the 1-2 guys that go off and you are good

    At TE you had Ertz/Goedert/Cook at the top end and a bunch of middle guys

    D/ST 8 choices

    With 300, 450 LUs you can cover many of the realistic possibilities on this short slate. But this isn’t true in all sports. Regular cut golf for example you clearly cannot. Regular season weekly NFL you cannot.

    So IMO the issue is, either not do a Milly for the playoffs, or create a fair playoff Milly that does something that gives enough of a chance for all (like forcing you to draft 2 QBs and 2 defenses).

  • bigez952

    @superstars92 said...

    Oh no I get you. If you’ve read my previous posts, I’ve done a lot of math about this.

    However, the thing is, what is the DIFFERENCE between this and previous arguments of collusion (brothers, Mazwa/RagingPhillip – check that one out btw, it’s more obvious) that makes this one more likely to be investigated and them found guilty? I don’t see any difference.

    Even after the RagingPhillip scandal, he was allowed to compete and I believe he took down a DK World Championship afterwards too (live finals), so there was no repurcusions.

    If you guys want to push this further, you have to give a concerte example of why this case is MORE OBVIOUS than previous cases, which obviously have been ignored.

    I can think of one thing, which is the location tracker (same location), but that can be explained. Even if they are always submitting from the same location, they can just say they are married and they go everywhere together.

    In my opinion the biggest problem for DK is their lack of transparency on these public controversies. They said they investigated the brothers who are known by the entire DFS community and found nothing wrong. That controversy dies immediately if the investigation of their findings is made public. I don’t believe they will do anything in this case either as they can continue to hide behind we dealt with it but due to privacy issues can’t disclose what happened. So they actually could do nothing other than telling Jade and Tanner not to talk about doing nothing so everyone moves on with their life.

    There is a reason why all court records are public info. I know the court system far to well as my wife and I provide foster care for children in need and it amazes me with some of private details from investigations get put out into public record. It is rough but that is a must if you want to even have a chance of integrity to back up your investigation process. Even with all of the public info the foster care system still gets railed by a lot of people as being legal kidnapping. I couldn’t’ imagine how bad this would be if every investigation of a child being removed from the home was sealed to protect peoples privacy. Way off topic I know but it gets me thinking.

  • ifthethunder

    If the max-entry limit were eliminated, DK would soon find that they only have pros competing against each other in their tournaments. The pros would soon find that they can’t beat the rake when they are only competing against other pros. End of business.
    ~

  • superstars92

    @thedude404 said...

    This is why you need someone OTHER than DK investigating this. That’s why gaming boards exist. They are the ones that should be doing the investigations here, not DK. You think DK actually WANTS to find someone cheating? LOL!

    Yea but the issue is who created the 150 entry rule? That’s the issue. Is that a DK rule? If it’s a DK rule, a third party can’t investigate it since it’s not a global rule. If it’s not a DK rule, then now you can get somewhere.

    Just trying to help you guys out thinking about the situation.

  • msg365

    The 150 max rule is there to still give an inkling of hope to those who throw an entry or two into the millymaker each week. If you do unlimited, then the pros will absolutely take down every single one of these 2 to 4 game slates.

    Essentially it boils down to DK devoting a large team to finding collusion each and every day. Look at entry correlations between DFS players, timing of entries and updates to entries, etc. It is very doable considering they can see every bit of data. There are probably still ways around that if people know what DK is looking at, but it makes it much harder for the average person to cheat.

  • superstars92

    Also, if you guys want something, just check her Twitter.

    She already straight up admitted her husband helped her with picks (you guys should screenshot this if you want to actually make a case, I personally don’t care but I know a few people on this thread do).

    https://twitter.com/jadelizroper/status/1213988873287585793

    But that’s the issue no one’s really understanding. That alone isn’t “collusion” based on the way the rule was set up (probably set up that way intentionally). So you guys can’t even use that against her (for all you people really serious about this, you should still screenshot it though, in the rare case you could later). Just like you can’t really use that QB stuff against her. All she has to say was “my husband liked these other 3 QBs, I don’t listen to him because he sucks at DFS so I chose the other 3 QBs” (it’s analogous to saying her husband is bad at DFS by not picking DK Metcalf when I did). See the issue here? She already admitted that her husband helps her out publictly, but that doesn’t move the needle in the collusion discussion.

    I’m wondering if I should be a defense lawyer or prosecutor…pretty tough decision. Maybe DFSx42 the OP can help me out, he’s the one who motivated me to get some new perspectives on life =p

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @lfn1992 said...

    The issue is not Milly contests per se IMO but with Milly contests on clear short 4 game slates. I think in many ways this is unique to DK’s choice to run 4 game Millys with such a limited number of players that could “go off”.

    You had 8 QBs to choose from. With 300 LUs you can cover all 8.

    You had 3 stud RBs (Kamara, Cook, Singletary). Easy to cover all 3

    At receiver you had 5-6 studs like Metcalf and MT then a bunch of crapshoots. All you need to do is find the 1-2 guys that go off and you are good

    At TE you had Ertz/Goedert/Cook at the top end and a bunch of middle guys

    D/ST 8 choices

    With 300, 450 LUs you can cover many of the realistic possibilities on this short slate. But this isn’t true in all sports. Regular cut golf for example you clearly cannot. Regular season weekly NFL you cannot.

    So IMO the issue is, either not do a Milly for the playoffs, or create a fair playoff Milly that does something that gives enough of a chance for all (like forcing you to draft 2 QBs and 2 defenses).

    So change the contest types, and ignore the people cheating. Great idea.

  • ifthethunder

    @superstars92 said...

    Also, if you guys want something, just check her Twitter.

    She already straight up admitted her husband helped her with picks

    https://twitter.com/jadelizroper/status/1213988873287585793

    But that’s the issue no one’s understanding. That alone isn’t “collusion” based on the way the rule was set up (probably set up that way intentionally). So you guys can’t even use that against her. Just like you can’t really use that QB stuff against her. All she has to say was “my husband liked these other 3 QBs, I don’t listen to him because he sucks at DFS so I chose the other 3 QBs”. See the issue here? She already admitted that her husband helps her out publictly, but that doesn’t move the needle in the collusion discussion.

    I’m wondering if I should be a defense lawyer or prosecut0r…pretty tough decision. Maybe DFSx42 the OP can help me out, he’s the one who motivated me to get some new perspectives on life =p

    Dorian Finney-Smith? That guy is terrible!!
    ~

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @msg365 said...

    The 150 max rule is there to still give an inkling of hope to those who throw an entry or two into the millymaker each week. If you do unlimited, then the pros will absolutely take down every single one of these 2 to 4 game slates.

    Essentially it boils down to DK devoting a large team to finding collusion each and every day. Look at entry correlations between DFS players, timing of entries and updates to entries, etc. It is very doable considering they can see every bit of data. There are probably still ways around that if people know what DK is looking at, but it makes it much harder for the average person to cheat.

    LIke I said in a previous post, LOL at DK “investigating” any of this. You think DK wants to find proof a user cheated? That is going to be helpful to their business? A gaming board needs to investigate things like this or some other type of legit governing body. And quite frankly, all these sites need to be audited on a yearly basis so any faulty procedures can be properly identified along with users that are abusing the system.

  • hypegotti

    Randone threatening Draftcheat with lawyers on Twitter is hilarious content

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    Yea but the issue is who created the 150 entry rule? That’s the issue. Is that a DK rule? If it’s a DK rule, a third party can’t investigate it since it’s not a global rule. If it’s not a DK rule, then now you can get somewhere.

    Just trying to help you guys out thinking about the situation.

    I’m pretty sure it was a rule put in place by the first handful of states that had DFS regulations (Massachusetts may have been the first). The rule was the lower of 150 max entries per contest or 3% of the total entries in a contest. Due to this, DK adopted this rule for all contests on their site.

  • superstars92

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I’m pretty sure it was a rule put in place by the first handful of states that had DFS regulations (Massachusetts may have been the first). The rule was the lower of 150 max entries per contest of 3% of the total entries in a contest. Due to this, DK adopted this rule for all contests on their site.

    In that case, theDude404 would have a better case. Not sure what he’ll do though, he probably would have to contact a bunch of people. I mean most of us on here don’t care enough to go through with anything, but he seems pretty passionate so just trying to help him make his case.

  • gvn2fly1421

    Any doubts that Randone guy was not involved in this as well?

    https://twitter.com/Zazmania/status/1214176180733132800

    Scroll down to see all three players ownerships in one place…

    https://twitter.com/ChrisRandone/status/1214231883040485376

  • depalma13

    @superstars92 said...

    Here’s a better question for you guys. Has anyone EVER been caught circumventing the 150 rule limit? If the answer is no, why is this a rule to begin with? Just for show and tell?

    150 Max is not a rule. It’s state law in Massachusetts.

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    The very first Milly Maker there was no entry limit. The guys name is on the tip of my tongue but he had over 700 entries.

  • ifthethunder

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    Any doubts that Randone guy was not involved in this as well?

    https://twitter.com/Zazmania/status/1214176180733132800

    LMAO. This just makes it all better. “a woman who is also a wife to a husband”

    It’s like Geraldo’s vault, but in reverse.
    ~

  • superstars92

    @1greatbuyz said...

    The very first Milly Maker there was no entry limit. The guys name is on the tip of my tongue but he had over 700 entries.

    SAMENOLE? Florida St.

  • msg365

    Oh I completely agree with you. These cheating scandals have come up how many times now and absolutely nothing has happened. I’m just saying the data is there for them to look at internally to start taking action. It appears it WILL take a governing body for them to actually devote resources to doing this as no company wants regulation so you will find few who will extensively self-regulate. Regulation = more non-profitable resources needed = less profit. The other hope is that “the people” will take a stand and boycott DK. People will never stop playing in these contests IMO so hoping that there is a mass revolt is like hoping to win the lottery. Even if people started to think about revolting and the MillyMaker was only half filled with 15 minutes til start… people wouldn’t be able to resist putting lineups in to potentially get some overlay at the last minute.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @superstars92 said...

    In that case, theDude404 would have a better case. Not sure what he’ll do though, he probably would have to contact a bunch of people. I mean most of us on here don’t care enough to go through with anything, but he seems pretty passionate so just trying to help him make his case.

    Yeah, I’ve been passionate about it for years. Which only has lead to frustration. It’s hard enough to profit doing this with the high rake, the optimizers, beating people with Masters degree’s in mathematics, etc. The last thing I want to have to deal with is cheaters ie something that can be eliminated fairly easily with some type of program that scans the entries for mathematical anomalies/patterns. Look I’m no computer guy or math guy, but I know that kind of stuff can be done. The question is, is it? I have my doubts on that.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @depalma13 said...

    150 Max is not a rule. It’s state law in Massachusetts.

    But acting as a syndicate/colluding IS against the rules.

  • gvn2fly1421

    Technically….

    https://twitter.com/williambierman/status/1214190598082715648

  • Unico10

    • 478

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #97

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @thedude404 said...

    Then make all these 150 max contests unlimited entries and be done with it if you arent going to PROPERLY investigate these incidents. If collusion was done in this case, it can be proven. The question is will DK go to the lengths necessary for it to be proven or disproved.

    That is exactly it
    Nailed it

    I have been saying this when we previously discussed the brothers.

    Since DK is unable or unwilling to enforce its own TOS and since part of the community see rules as a general annoyance to which one should find its way around…. than it would be way more honest to have the mega contests free of “pretend rules”
    Now one can choose to enter anyway or not but should not be provided a false pretense of somewhat level playing field

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