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  • rpaulsen518

    If you read today’s MLB Grind Down from Notorious, he recommended that you “Avoid Wacha in all formats” tonight against the Mets. Notorious also recommended Eduardo Rodriguez and Jake Arrieta as his preferred SP2 options to pair with Clayton Kershaw on DraftKings.

    In tonight’s $3,000 buy-in Spring Series Three Thousand Hit Club, Notorious fired a single bullet and paired Clayton Kershaw with Michael Wacha. I know that the Grind Down is a free article, but it is arguably the most popular on the site and one that many use as a baseline for their research process on a daily basis.

    I am not a premium subscriber, so I was not able to view the Grind Down video update, so I am curious if there was any mention of Michael Wacha in this video, or if this ultimately ended up being completely misleading from the article?

  • scott33

    @rpaulsen518 said...

    If you read today’s MLB Grind Down from Notorious, he recommended that you “Avoid Wacha in all formats” tonight against the Mets. Notorious also recommended Eduardo Rodriguez and Jake Arrieta as his preferred SP2 options to pair with Clayton Kershaw on DraftKings.

    In tonight’s $3,000 buy-in Spring Series Three Thousand Hit Club, Notorious fired a single bullet and paired Clayton Kershaw with Michael Wacha. I know that the Grind Down is a free article, but it is arguably the most popular on the site and one that many use as a baseline for their research process on a daily basis.

    I am not a premium subscriber, so I was not able to view the Grind Down video update, so I am curious if there was any mention of Michael Wacha in this video, or if this ultimately ended up being completely misleading from the article?

    He did the same thing in the NBA yesterday, saying he wasn’t actively targeting Thon Maker or Zeller but that he would lean Zeller if choosing between the two. Then he plays Maker in his $1,590 Baller lineup on FD. IDK I’m sure he changed his mind at some point during the day, but it was surprising nonetheless that he had Maker & not Zeller in his main lineup since he decided to punt at the C position.

  • Notorious

    Lead RG Analyst

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    Hey all,

    I certainly never try to mislead my readers. It’s always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups. At the time of writing the Grind Down, I have an idea of who I want to target, but sometimes roster construction will take me down a different path. As far as my MLB team, I wanted to play Clayton Kershaw and load up on the Rangers and Cardinals (all of which I recommended in the Grind Down). I ultimately needed the savings at pitcher and decided on Michael Wacha last minute once I saw that Asdrubal Cabrera was out of the lineup. As for Thon Maker, I was not planning on using him at all and ultimately regretted the play. Once again, I just ended up with a different roster construction than I was originally expecting when I wrote the Grind Down. I’ve been writing these articles for over five years now, I certainly don’t want to mislead anyone.

  • DSofM

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    Honestly if you are reading anything that comes out before lineups come out you can probably just chalk it up as a waste of time because everything can and will change as different lineups come out and players are scratched (and in MLB’s case we get a clearer picture of the weather for that day).

  • scott33

    @Notorious said...

    Hey all,

    I certainly never try to mislead my readers. It’s always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups. At the time of writing the Grind Down, I have an idea of who I want to target, but sometimes roster construction will take me down a different path. As far as my MLB team, I wanted to play Clayton Kershaw and load up on the Rangers and Cardinals (all of which I recommended in the Grind Down). I ultimately needed the savings at pitcher and decided on Michael Wacha last minute once I saw that Asdrubal Cabrera was out of the lineup. As for Thon Maker, I was not planning on using him at all and ultimately regretted the play. Once again, I just ended up with a different roster construction than I was originally expecting when I wrote the Grind Down. I’ve been writing these articles for over five years now, I certainly don’t want to mislead anyone.

  • Roma315

    Can’t blame Notorious. When I started I would make lineups before the actually LUs came out. Next thing you know my entire core has changed. He wouldn’t be actively misleading his readers, it’s just bad business.

  • yountingly

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    I think the title of the thread if completely unfair. Noto has earned the benefit of the doubt and to call him out like this is unnecessary. As someone else already said, between lus, weather and other factors, so much can change over the course of the day. It’s Michael Wacha. Maybe Noto could have found a way during his busy time to make a post on the grind down saying “guys, lu construction and no Cabrera has moved me onto Wacha some”. Not sure if he ever does that as I read the grind down maybe once or twice a week. I only made a few dk lus and had no intention of using Wacha but next thing you know, he was in one.

  • TheDataDetective

    • Blogger of the Month

    @DSofM said...

    Honestly if you are reading anything that comes out before lineups come out you can probably just chalk it up as a waste of time because everything can and will change as different lineups come out and players are scratched (and in MLB’s case we get a clearer picture of the weather for that day).

    Exactly…this is why I typically re-run my app and update the recommendations in my blog several times throughout the day as lineups are released and games are postponed due to weather. There are always significant changes, so the early lineup projections are just an educated guess.

  • bhdevault

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    @yountingly said...

    I think the title of the thread if completely unfair

    I agree.. I changed it a bit to be more fair and less shock value. I let the OP know in a PM.

  • Lathum

    @rpaulsen518 said...

    If you read today’s MLB Grind Down from Notorious, he recommended that you “Avoid Wacha in all formats” tonight against the Mets. Notorious also recommended Eduardo Rodriguez and Jake Arrieta as his preferred SP2 options to pair with Clayton Kershaw on DraftKings.

    In tonight’s $3,000 buy-in Spring Series Three Thousand Hit Club, Notorious fired a single bullet and paired Clayton Kershaw with Michael Wacha. I know that the Grind Down is a free article, but it is arguably the most popular on the site and one that many use as a baseline for their research process on a daily basis.

    I am not a premium subscriber, so I was not able to view the Grind Down video update, so I am curious if there was any mention of Michael Wacha in this video, or if this ultimately ended up being completely misleading from the article?

    I agree he’s earned the benefit of the doubt.

  • rpaulsen518

    Hey, all – as mentioned several times in this thread, the phrasing of my thread title was certainly strong, for which I apologize, and did so privately to Derek and Bill, as well.

    Notorious does tremendous work across all sports (a lot of it available to everyone, for free), and he is a great asset to the RotoGrinders and DFS community.

    Regarding the other posts in this thread, I can certainly understand that analysis made early in the afternoon should be given leeway to change, which is why I was asking if there was any significant update made in the premium Grind Down video update which was closer to lock. Considering that Michael Wacha was labeled “Avoid in all formats” with no real mention of interest in him, it was pretty surprising to see him ultimately end up in a high stakes lineup. There were no significant weather issues or postponements, and Asdrubal was the notable omission from the Mets lineup.

    Notorious privately messaged me the same explanation regarding his lineup decision as he mentioned above, to which I can certainly understand. Playing Kershaw last night and being comfortable with your bats was very difficult if you didn’t save at SP2.

    Once again, I apologize to Notorious and the community for the strong choice of words in the thread title. I GREATLY appreciated receiving messages from both Noto and Bill upon waking up this morning. This type of integrity/clarity is exactly what I was hoping for by posing this topic to the community.

    Best of luck to everyone grinding today.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    I generally try to avoid the opinion pieces, for this and many other reasons, but it can be hard.
    I would say that I’ve noticed that Notorious (in the GD) usually does do a good job and tend to go out of his way to give the logic and reasoning to a decision. I’e – I’m not planning to play because x, but he could be a good play because of y, etc.
    which I do appreciate because it allows you to insert your own thoughts into it, so it feels more like a piece of a discussion than a “here’s the pick, take him”.
    So I would hope the explanation is true and it was nothing nefarious.

  • DSofM

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    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    I generally try to avoid the opinion pieces, for this and many other reasons, but it can be hard.
    I would say that I’ve noticed that Notorious (in the GD) usually does do a good job and tend to go out of his way to give the logic and reasoning to a decision. I’e – I’m not planning to play because x, but he could be a good play because of y, etc.
    which I do appreciate because it allows you to insert your own thoughts into it, so it feels more like a piece of a discussion than a “here’s the pick, take him”.
    So I would hope the explanation is true and it was nothing nefarious.

    He has no real reason to mislead anyone. Just a case of the articles being out so far from lock that there’s plenty of time for opinions to change.

  • Benf15harp

    The point should be don’t read/listen to anything dfs related unless it’s for entertainment purposes only and all opinions to be taken with a grain of salt.
    Dfs content is a shady business imo.
    I do enjoy the forum, however I’d probably be better off without it.
    It’s all data And for the most part all that data is FREE.
    Good day

  • stv1313

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    So . . . the exclusion of Asdrubal Cabrera from the Mets starting lineup changed an “avoid Wacha in all formats” to a definite play in a $3k contest?!? I wasn’t aware that Cabrera had become such a game-changing superstar.

    Seriously . . . this should be a wake up call that articles published early in the morning should be treated as complete acts of fiction. I’m sure that Notorious was not intending to mislead anyone, but if the simple exclusion of Cabrera from the Mets’ lineup can cause such a drastic change in DFS lineup construction, what is the purpose of offering opinions in the Daily Grind, other than pure entertainment?

  • bhdevault

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    @stv1313 said...

    So . . . the exclusion of Asdrubal Cabrera from the Mets starting lineup changed an “avoid Wacha in all formats” to a definite play in a $3k contest?!? I wasn’t aware that Cabrera had become such a game-changing superstar.

    Seriously . . . this should be a wake up call that articles published early in the morning should be treated as complete acts of fiction. I’m sure that Notorious was not intending to mislead anyone, but if the simple exclusion of Cabrera from the Mets’ lineup can cause such a drastic change in DFS lineup construction, what is the purpose of offering opinions in the Daily Grind, other than pure entertainment?

    I believed he also mentioned how he wanted to stack the Rangers and Cardinals along with Kershaw. Probably left him close to the amount for Wacha, which he then talked himself into because of Asdrubal being out.

    Makes total sense to me. If he does this at 6:35 est, is he supposed to write an entire new grind down? You are being unreasonable.

  • stv1313

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    I don’t believe that I’m being unreasonable. I merely question the purpose of the Grind Down. It’s good reading and I appreciate all the work that must be spent in writing it, but it’s fairly obvious that the opinions in the article can’t really be relied upon – partiallly because of the timing of its publication. With that being said, the statement to “avoid Wacha in all formats” is pretty straightforward. I would have expected more drastic news to come out to go from “avoid Wacha in all formats” to using him in a $3k contest.

    Personally, I find it interesting that Notorious spends so much time creating such a well-written article and freely admits that it’s “always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups.” Personally, if I spent that much time writing an article that was featured so prominently on this site, I’d spend a little time putting together a lineup or two to ensure that my opinions coincided with the realities of constructing a feasible lineup.

    Additional Edit: If you’re going to write an article that suggests that you “want to stack the Rangers and Cardinals along with Kershaw”, you should probably make sure that your 2nd pitcher isn’t one that you suggest should be avoided in all formats. It just looks bad.

  • sethayates

    @stv1313 said...

    I don’t believe that I’m being unreasonable. I merely question the purpose of the Grind Down. It’s good reading and I appreciate all the work that must be spent in writing it, but it’s fairly obvious that the opinions in the article can’t really be relied upon – partiallly because of the timing of its publication. With that being said, the statement to “avoid Wacha in all formats” is pretty straightforward. I would have expected more drastic news to come out to go from “avoid Wacha in all formats” to using him in a $3k contest.

    Personally, I find it interesting that Notorious spends so much time creating such a well-written article and freely admits that it’s “always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups.” Personally, if I spent that much time writing an article that was featured so prominently on this site, I’d spend a little time putting together a lineup or two to ensure that my opinions coincided with the realities of constructing a feasible lineup.

    Additional Edit: If you’re going to write an article that suggests that you “want to stack the Rangers and Cardinals along with Kershaw”, you should probably make sure that your 2nd pitcher isn’t one that you suggest should be avoided in all formats. It just looks bad.

    I’m not trying to defend Notorious here (he already did that himself) just adding a little context. Here is a link to the Grind Down. The Mets/Cardinals game is at the very bottom.

    https://rotogrinders.com/articles/mlb-grind-down-wednesday-april-25th-page-three-2505888

    Here is exactly what he said:

    Wacha is a streaky pitcher. There will be a point of the season when he has a sudden burst in velocity and he starts striking batters out at a 25% clip. Until that happens, he can be avoided in all formats. He’s off to a rough start this season, posting a SIERA over five with a below-average strikeout rate and a 12% walk rate. People may gravitate toward him because he’s a favorite that is pitching at home, but this Mets’ offense is no joke.

    Quick Breakdown: Avoid Wacha in all formats.

    Batter Grind Down

    NY Mets

    The Mets are going to fly under the radar tonight. They are underdogs on the road playing in a pitcher’s park. While I won’t be stacking New York, I do like the left-handed hitters in this lineup as one-off targets in tournaments. Since the beginning of last season, Michael Wacha has allowed a .337 xwOBA to lefties. Michael Conforto, Asdrubal Cabrera, and Jay Bruce all bat from the left side and all have good power against right-handed pitching.

    Based on the above (and what we know now) Noto was concerned about the LH hitters in this lineup. He also mentioned that at some point Wacha could turn things around. Re-reading this now you can see that Noto wasn’t necessarily all the way off Wacha he just hasn’t seen anything yet. When you drop one of the good LH hitters out of the lineup I could see how that would be enough to possibly make Wacha an SP2 as the last guy in.

    As mentioned above though. It is ridiculously hard to write an article about the entire slate prior to lineups coming out. That’s what makes the Grind Down update valuable for premium members. Notorious can quickly recap anything that’s changed after he built his lineups. Ideally, the Grind Down is meant to be a basis for your research. It’s really not supposed to be an opinion piece though without opinions it’d just be a massive wall of stats and charts.

  • louiescards

    DK KoTH winner

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    @stv1313 said...

    I don’t believe that I’m being unreasonable. I merely question the purpose of the Grind Down. It’s good reading and I appreciate all the work that must be spent in writing it, but it’s fairly obvious that the opinions in the article can’t really be relied upon – partiallly because of the timing of its publication. With that being said, the statement to “avoid Wacha in all formats” is pretty straightforward. I would have expected more drastic news to come out to go from “avoid Wacha in all formats” to using him in a $3k contest.

    Personally, I find it interesting that Notorious spends so much time creating such a well-written article and freely admits that it’s “always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups.” Personally, if I spent that much time writing an article that was featured so prominently on this site, I’d spend a little time putting together a lineup or two to ensure that my opinions coincided with the realities of constructing a feasible lineup.

    Additional Edit: If you’re going to write an article that suggests that you “want to stack the Rangers and Cardinals along with Kershaw”, you should probably make sure that your 2nd pitcher isn’t one that you suggest should be avoided in all formats. It just looks bad.

    Couple things to unpack here.

    1) Take away any opinion from the GD and you still have one of the more comprehensive articles relating to that set of games any given day. Questioning the purpose of the GD itself doesn’t hold merit. Questioning if you need the opinions of the writer is another subject.

    2) Noto has wrote over a thousand GD articles covering various sports for several years now. He made a mistake here. That does not mean the article itself is not useful. There are many people who have won money thanks to the GD. A quick twitter search can confirm. I would be willing to bet there are far more people who want his opinion than those who do not.

    3) Perhaps using terms like “avoid in all formats” for the original article itself is something that should be avoided. It could always be added later in the day via the updated video when armed with more information. (This is my personal opinion and not that of anyone other than me)

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

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    @stv1313 said...

    I don’t believe that I’m being unreasonable. I merely question the purpose of the Grind Down. It’s good reading and I appreciate all the work that must be spent in writing it, but it’s fairly obvious that the opinions in the article can’t really be relied upon – partiallly because of the timing of its publication. With that being said, the statement to “avoid Wacha in all formats” is pretty straightforward. I would have expected more drastic news to come out to go from “avoid Wacha in all formats” to using him in a $3k contest.

    Personally, I find it interesting that Notorious spends so much time creating such a well-written article and freely admits that it’s “always hard to write an article 5+ hours before I start making lineups.” Personally, if I spent that much time writing an article that was featured so prominently on this site, I’d spend a little time putting together a lineup or two to ensure that my opinions coincided with the realities of constructing a feasible lineup.

    Additional Edit: If you’re going to write an article that suggests that you “want to stack the Rangers and Cardinals along with Kershaw”, you should probably make sure that your 2nd pitcher isn’t one that you suggest should be avoided in all formats. It just looks bad.

    So don’t spend the 5 minutes reading the article if you question its purpose.

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