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  • Mphst18

    From your website on community guidelines:

    “Team-building a lineup, or a set of complementary lineups which serve to work together, to execute a strategy that may create any unfair advantage over individual play”

    I do not understand how you do not classify what is going on as an example of the above situation.

    Myself and anyone else that plays as individual is at an unfair advantage as one individual only has so much time to research and utilize data to build a lineup, while these 3 have 3 times the amount of time and then build identical lineups to create an unfair advantage against individual play. They don’t even bother to differentiate the way the lineups are entered (all in the exact same order).

    The only other case that could be made is that one of the 3 makes the lineup and the other three copy it but that isn’t going to help your “Skill” verbatim around the legality of the sport.

    While these individuals provide much more rake than I do to you guys they are clearly violating your rules. Are you going to do anything about it?

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26588856?uc=470716397

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26834127?uc=471339295

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27224326?uc=471315951

    RG: if you had to vote who do you think builds the lineups and who do you think copies and pastes and enters them (Assani, AEjones, Wdrzich)

    Its not about winning or losing, its that these individuals and others like them are going to lead to the end of DFS.

  • Mphst18

    Also since all their responses are we can’t comment on an allegation or the outcome how is one to know if it is allowed or not allowed.

    If anyone is deemed to have violated their rules do you get your money back? You will never know as they will never tell you the result of the investigation or outcome.

    This has verified these are all FLUFF and of no value to DFS player or protection to the integrity of the game. These are nothing more than self fulfilling lies in hopes to help legality

  • deactivated84892

    Those links are pretty cut and dry.

    I think it looks like DK has pulled the plug on the “Community Guidelines” experiment. Between them tweeting out full lineups and removing the Community Guidelines page, I’m just assuming we’re back to business as usual.

    And I’m 100% okay with that. Just wish they would make a rule, take a stand and go with it. I’m playing the game regardless and do what I can to make sure I’m doing it to the best of my ability, All I need to know is where out-of-bounds is and they’ve been pretty gray lately. But I never really expected them to realistically police what they put out in those Guidelines.

  • Mphst18

    Yes when I emailed and asked for a link to their guidelines since the one on their FAQ page linked to the contest Lobby I got crickets back.

    They hypocracy is what drives me crazy, either have rules or don’t have rules but don’t proclaim to have rules and then just throw everything under the rug.

  • edro990

    Anything DK does in this area is just to placate AGs and regulation threats. As far as enforcement, I don’t expect them to do anything. They are the biggest shills for the sharks in the industry.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    You should have late swapped your TE

  • Mphst18

    Yeah you are correct I just stopped caring about it.

  • manoftroy

    .

  • Zieg30

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @Mphst18 said...

    “Team-building a lineup, or a set of complementary lineups which serve to work together, to execute a strategy that may create any unfair advantage over individual play”

    I could be in the minority here, but I’m not sure that team-building a lineup to enter H2H games constitutes a violation of the above-stated policy.

    That policy seems targeted at team-building lineups in GPPs using strategies to maximize exposure to chosen players and avoid overlap between lineups, and exceeding the max entry limits.

    I don’t believe that the time allowed to research actually is an “unfair advantage”. We all do varying degrees of research, and many of us put in more time than others.

    You also provided an example above of a scenario resulting in those three identical lineups that would categorically NOT violate the policy (e.g. one player researched and crafted the lineup, and shared it with his friends).

  • Loveyduvey50

    In all realty DK should ban these guys for a few weeks but we know they wont.

  • btwice80

    @Mphst18 said...

    They don’t even bother to differentiate the way the lineups are entered (all in the exact same order).

    DK automatically lists players at the same position in alphabetical order.

  • scottmsteiner

    As Zieg30 stated, I really don’t think this is anywhere near a violation of any policies, statutes, laws, or obligations to the above.

  • gridironguru99

    I don’t understand who is advising DK. They are shooting themselves in the foot with this crap yet the Sharks continue to get special treatment . This bugs me but at the very least – thank you to the OP so I can now avoid these jokers in cash action .

    You’re right though. If this continues it will certainly curb the growth of DFS and likely lead to its demise . The Sharks have about another year or so to get in while the getting is good . I’m convinced a public company or one with a management team past puberty that doesn’t say bro every other word – needs to consolidate in this industry to create a fair balance where transparency is paramount .

    For starters – being able to block whoever I want with no limit would be great. Limiting to 3 doesn’t do much for me .

  • yoteach

    • Blogger of the Month

    I have said it previously and will continue to say it; we desperately need a Player’s Association. The DFSPA tried to gain traction last year around this time, and even though it was free to join, my understanding is that few did. Until there is a player’s association, we will not have a strong voice as players.

    You don’t necessarily have to agree with the lineup copying issue highlighted here (sorry, haven’t looked close enough, not even sure where I stand on this specific example), but you do have to care about having a voice. If we speak up loud enough and give ourselves power, we can help make positive change.

    It is my belief that the sites, in the midst of all of the legal battles and due to lack of support by players for DFSPA, decided that supporting a player’s association was low on the priority list (if truly interested in transparency and player voice, they could add a small drip to help finance it). Instead, they supported FSTA and their own Fantasy Sports for All industry-sponsored mechanisms for legislative action.

    I haven’t heard anything from DFSPA in a while. Anyone else? I still believe that forming a player’s association is critical.

  • deactivated60279

    For the record, I think this is awful for the community. I love when Assani comes on here and acts like he cares about the community. Joke. My question is did these guys enter the same 50/50 or 3-10 man etcetc? Also, the fact that Dk already abandoned ship on the guidelines is abhorrent to me but not surprising. Again, the sane shortsightedness as per usual.

  • Mphst18

    @btwice80 said...

    DK automatically lists players at the same position in alphabetical order.

    Flex is a choice not in alphabetical order

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    @Zieg30 said...

    I could be in the minority here, but I’m not sure that team-building a lineup to enter H2H games constitutes a violation of the above-stated policy.

    That policy seems targeted at team-building lineups in GPPs using strategies to maximize exposure to chosen players and avoid overlap between lineups, and exceeding the max entry limits.

    I don’t believe that the time allowed to research actually is an “unfair advantage”. We all do varying degrees of research, and many of us put in more time than others.

    You also provided an example above of a scenario resulting in those three identical lineups that would categorically NOT violate the policy (e.g. one player researched and crafted the lineup, and shared it with his friends).

    I think this is the main problem right here^, 2 people can have 2 completely different interpretations of what the guidelines mean.

    I think having those guidelines was a good start. Hopefully the sites will continue with it, even if they are just guidelines. Common poker etiquette calls for “one player per hand”. In DFS we really should have “one player per lineup”. It is a slippery slope when multiple people can work together and play the same line-up on multiple accounts. Like Saahil could sign up 50 friends/relatives and give them a cash line-up everyday, that would be a crappy lobby. Crazy hypothetical I know, but still there should be something preventing it from happening.

    I’m sure these guys read those guidelines and determined what they are doing is fine. They all probably contribute in some way to the line-up they go with each week, and they are not sharing action. So it is not like they are multi-accounting or doing anything that is clearly against the rules. The sites just need to spell it out real clear: It is against the TOS for 2 or more people to work together and play an identical line-up on more than 1 account. (or something like that. and conversely, they should make it known if this is something that is ok to do)

  • Mphst18

    @Zieg30 said...

    I could be in the minority here, but I’m not sure that team-building a lineup to enter H2H games constitutes a violation of the above-stated policy.

    That policy seems targeted at team-building lineups in GPPs using strategies to maximize exposure to chosen players and avoid overlap between lineups, and exceeding the max entry limits.

    I don’t believe that the time allowed to research actually is an “unfair advantage”. We all do varying degrees of research, and many of us put in more time than others.

    You also provided an example above of a scenario resulting in those three identical lineups that would categorically NOT violate the policy (e.g. one player researched and crafted the lineup, and shared it with his friends).

    That is ok for you to have a differing view and I enjoy hearing it.

    For me dfs is a game of information that revolves around sports. If an individual is competing against a team that individual is at an unfair advantage. As you said we all put in varying times but if I put in the same time as each of their syndicate members they have now outpaced me 3 to 1 and am at a disadvantage.

    The other example was to show that we are not blind of a possible excuse the site may try to use to protect this behavior. However when asked if dfs is a game of skill that excuse would be contradictory as its not skill to copy and paste if only one syndicate member made the lineup (I.e I was only competing against one person, the other two just copied the lineup).

    In the link below more vagueness from the co founder MK but would highlight where you and I differ on what individual play constitutes. Is there a difference between talking with friends about plays and then having the identical same lineup?

    https://rotogrinders.com/articles/draftkings-clarifies-stance-on-hot-button-issues-1389616

  • Mphst18

    @gridironguru99 said...

    I don’t understand who is advising DK. They are shooting themselves in the foot with this crap yet the Sharks continue to get special treatment . This bugs me but at the very least – thank you to the OP so I can now avoid these jokers in cash action .

    You’re right though. If this continues it will certainly curb the growth of DFS and likely lead to its demise . The Sharks have about another year or so to get in while the getting is good . I’m convinced a public company or one with a management team past puberty that doesn’t say bro every other word – needs to consolidate in this industry to create a fair balance where transparency is paramount .

    For starters – being able to block whoever I want with no limit would be great. Limiting to 3 doesn’t do much for me .

    Glad to help and its not just a small sample size or just NFL. Here is MMA with the same individuals.

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26077205?uc=439110255

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26089241?uc=439110229

  • shamrock77s

    @Mphst18 said...

    While these individuals provide much more rake than I do to you guys they are clearly violating your rules. Are you going to do anything about it?

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26588856?uc=470716397

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26834127?uc=471339295

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27224326?uc=471315951

    RG: if you had to vote who do you think builds the lineups and who do you think copies and pastes and enters them (Assani, AEjones, Wdrzich)

    Its not about winning or losing, its that these individuals and others like them are going to lead to the end of DFS.

    Maybe Assani can make a new Vlog and ‘take on the tough issues’ here.

  • CDonaldson83

    They also used the same lineup in the

    NFL GIANT $250 DOUBLE UP [$100,000 GUARANTEED] https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27319613

  • PigskinaBlanket

    • 407

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #77

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x3

      2019 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    Ok – but I am going to play a bit of a devil’s advocate here. Its ok to discuss strategy with another player – identify the best values and share projections. I mean – thats what RG is all about. If they are running standard optimization against a similar set of projections (even using RG projections, or from another source) – they would also end on the same optimal lineup…right?

    If any two people in this thread optimized RG’s projections for a slate – would get the same lineup. Agreeing a lineup is optimal and then both playing it separately…not sure where it is a violation.

    The issue I see is if it was used by two people sharing money as a way to skirt the .limits at certain buyin levels.

    I am not sure what is right and what is wrong here – but I dont think we should instinctively assume everyone is up to something nefarious.

    I also understand that certain players ALWAYS have the same lineup…..and right or wrong, it does feel gross.

  • Heterodox

    @Mphst18 said...

    For me dfs is a game of information that revolves around sports. If an individual is competing against a team that individual is at an unfair advantage. As you said we all put in varying times but if I put in the same time as each of their syndicate members they have now outpaced me 3 to 1 and am at a disadvantage.

    This is well-stated. One person could max out the amount of time they put in, and still be at a disadvantage because Team X has a bunch of members, each of whom is also maxing out his time.

    It’s also a problem for an individual player who thinks he or she is competing against a certain number of separate individuals, when in reality they’re competing against a single entity operating under different names, who also happen to have an advantage equal to the amount of time any number of teammates can spend over what one individual could possibly invest.

    My thinking is that if the sites can’t or won’t stop/prevent this, then they should bring it into the light by making teams/syndicates identify themselves. If people want to operate as teams, make them take a team name, declare their members, and put a three letter abbreviation in front of their usernames, by which they can be identified. This way, people would at least know what they’re up against. You don’t even have to consider whether or not anyone is sharing profits. It’s just a matter of who is working together to the extent of having identical or near-identical lineups, and who isn’t. I might be willing to play against Team Shark, but I don’t want to play ONLY against Team Shark, and that may well be what happens if I don’t have any way of knowing what players are on that team and what players aren’t.

  • colinwdrew

    • 251

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2018 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    I’m not sure I interpret this as a violation, at least as posted can see how it would be open for interpretation whether or not this creates an unfair advantage any more so than having better technical skills or data than you would.

    That said their stance against identical lineups is very LOL tweeting out lineups and allowing free optimal lineups but prohibiting sold lineups. Personally I think this SHOULD be against terms of use and if you share the same lineup with a specific user over X percent of the time you get a warning, and if you hit it Y percent over the time after that you get a ban.

    In short, while I think their behavior is deplorable I’m not sure it is currently against the rules.

  • deactivated84892

    I can’t see anyone could interpret this as not against their community guidelines.

    With that said, I’m 100% cool if DK ditches the guidelines but please make one rule official. This is such a mess.

  • bzsports4

    I don’t get how “giving” a lineup to a friend for free is any better than selling a lineup. The whole point of playing head to heads is to lower your variance by playing as many different opponents as possible. If this is allowed it would pretty much make the matchup limiter useless.

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