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  • Mphst18

    From your website on community guidelines:

    “Team-building a lineup, or a set of complementary lineups which serve to work together, to execute a strategy that may create any unfair advantage over individual play”

    I do not understand how you do not classify what is going on as an example of the above situation.

    Myself and anyone else that plays as individual is at an unfair advantage as one individual only has so much time to research and utilize data to build a lineup, while these 3 have 3 times the amount of time and then build identical lineups to create an unfair advantage against individual play. They don’t even bother to differentiate the way the lineups are entered (all in the exact same order).

    The only other case that could be made is that one of the 3 makes the lineup and the other three copy it but that isn’t going to help your “Skill” verbatim around the legality of the sport.

    While these individuals provide much more rake than I do to you guys they are clearly violating your rules. Are you going to do anything about it?

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26588856?uc=470716397

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/26834127?uc=471339295

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27224326?uc=471315951

    RG: if you had to vote who do you think builds the lineups and who do you think copies and pastes and enters them (Assani, AEjones, Wdrzich)

    Its not about winning or losing, its that these individuals and others like them are going to lead to the end of DFS.

  • Shipmymoney

    • 56

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    • Ranked #7

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    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @whoisjohngalt said...

    I have a feeling we are trading semantics here and that you likely would not be complaining if ChipotleAddict, Papagates, Scout326 and youdacao abstained from Quarter games and that also you would likely be very happy to see a no name lesser bankroll player hit in the quarter arcade and then turn that into some life changing money in a larger event.

    Yeah, I basically don’t care what Youdacao plays. Although I personally think he should focus more on the QA and lay off the high stakes stuff for a while. It’s awesome if a no name lesser bankroll player wins stuff and, even in the high stakes stuff, those are the guys I root for unless it’s me or someone I am friends with at the top with them. My point was just that as long as the sites put the burden of essentially leaving money on the table on the player, I don’t fault the player for taking it.

  • Zieg30

    @Unico10 said...

    For the same reason why you wouldn’t slaughter all your cattles, but keep a few so that they can reproduce.

    For the same reason why a fisherman relying on a lake for survival would not overfish and bare all life from it.

    For the same reason why clear cutting logging has been a disaster.

    I have more analogies if you want

    What if they’re communal cattle and everyone else keeps slaughtering them, so if you don’t all that results is you lose out on some cattle, but there aren’t any left to reproduce regardless? What if it’s a communal lake and every other fisherman is out there fishing, so if you don’t fish, all that results is that you lose out on some fish?

    PROS” are not a single entity. They are a bunch of individuals, many of whom do this for a living. I think it’s somewhat mean-spirited for those of them raking in money (but we don’t know how much any of them are making, really) to consistently play in the quarter arcade, but other than that I think they should have free reign, without judgment, to make money the way they think is best within the sites rules/policies. DFS is not a charity.

    I also don’t buy the notion that a sizable portion of new players quit because they face “PROS”. Most of them don’t know who the “PROS” are, and most new players would instead lose to the mid-tier players regardless.

  • Mphst18

    @Zieg30 said...

    I also don’t buy the notion that a sizable portion of new players quit because they face “PROS”. Most of them don’t know who the “PROS” are, and most new players would instead lose to the mid-tier players regardless

    Do you think that number would changed if they knew

    Do you think DFS is addictive so they will play anyway

    Do you think its $1 so even if they knew and were not addicted they would still play cause its only $1

  • Unico10

    • 454

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    @Zieg30 said...

    “PROS” are not a single entity. They are a bunch of individuals, many of whom do this for a living. I think it’s somewhat mean-spirited for those of them raking in money (but we don’t know how much any of them are making, really) to consistently play in the quarter arcade

    Just to clarify.
    Personal ethical standards and value are, by definition, personal
    We see people at the highest levels rationalize much more terrible things

    One can choose to look long term or to have a short term view.
    To your point, where one has to do it because others are doing it, the end game will be the same, I may as well do it too….

    I think it should be the sites to choose the long term view and provide large protected areas (to use an ecological comparison) where players can grow and produce rake without being pillaged
    The current beginner system is, quite frankly, a joke

  • Zieg30

    @Mphst18 said...

    Do you think that number would changed if they knew

    Do you think DFS is addictive so they will play anyway

    Do you think its $1 so even if they knew and were not addicted they would still play cause its only $1

    All good questions.

    I could see some getting frustrated and quitting if they knew, but I also do think, a la your second two questions, that most would continue to play. It’s not necessarily its addictive nature, but DFS is enjoyable (at least for me) even when losing. DFS (much like sports gambling) allows one to enjoy sporting events one normally would not, allows one to have a vested interest in players and teams one otherwise could care less about. That aspect remains even if one’s opponents are the best of the best.

  • Mphst18

    @Zieg30 said...

    allows one to enjoy sporting events one normally would not, allows one to have a vested interest in players and teams one otherwise could care less about

    Well stated.

    This is the part the leagues/teams are interested in, how can they drive up viewership but not be associated with some of the very Questionable tactics that the sites allow.

  • cherylwin

    Shipmymoney——I can’t believe you really can’t see the long-term here

  • aejones

    • 76

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    • $5M Prize Winner

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    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    @whoisjohngalt said...

    So yeah, maybe I do have a little less stomach than the average joe for people with ten’s or hundred’s of thousands of dollars

    How about millions?

  • deactivated51600

    @aejones said...

    How about millions?

    So, are you bragging about having million’s of thousand’s? Or ten’s or hundred’s of millions? Umm… Congratulations… i guess?

  • Mphst18

    @whoisjohngalt said...

    So, are you bragging about having million’s of thousand’s? Or ten’s or hundred’s of millions? Umm… Congratulations… i guess?

    just ignore it was an obnoxious post. Stay humble.

  • cherylwin

    AEJONES —-stay classy bruh

  • deactivated84892

    @whoisjohngalt said...

    Gundacker, I recently discovered your website and youtube videos and really like them a lot! Thanks.

    I agree with what you said about single entry. I actually don’t think anyone should be actively barred from any event. Even the pro’s from the QA. I know it sounds naive and maybe a pipe dream but what I ultimately desire is for these to adults be able to self-police themselves and act in a manner respectful of their peers irregardless of what latitude the technical rules allow them.

    Thanks for the love.

    This thread is one of those necessary discussions despite how outlandish some of the analogy’s are getting. I think everyone on all sides think DFS and it’s presentation on the sites could use adjusting.

    I don’t think telling a player what he can and can not play is the way but rather I think FanDuel’s entry limits are certain stakes is probably closest to the best compromise to work with.

    I doubt I could walk into a Poker Room at XYZ Casino and demand that Antonio Esfandiari can’t play at my $0.25/0.50 table. I shouldn’t have walked into the casino to begin with if I’m not ready to dance (Even if the Casino offered beginner games). But it’s highly unlikely to see high caliber card players sitting such low stakes because it’s just not worth their time.

    But if Antonio could use the hand(s) he’s using at the big boy tables and could magically dance with the smaller tables without having to do any extra work.. Why wouldn’t he?

    That’s what we’re seeing. If someone, at any level of skill, prepares x amount of lineups. There’s no reason for them to enter that at any level they feel comfortable/profitable. And I don’t think it’s fair to leave it up to the player to have a perceived moral high ground against a profitable method. McDonald’s make’s bank off the Big Mac but that dollar menu not going anywhere.

    Both sides seem to suggest there’s a problem and when 2 sides see a problem, A compromise is usually best. Both sides have to give a little so satisfaction rates won’t be 100%. I’d like to see the committee of people exploring regulations/ideas consider and discuss limits at certain stakes like FanDuel did.

    Of course neither side was fully happy when FanDuel rolled that out and pro’s threw hissy fits, But I think it was a smart decision for the bigger picture. Would also love to see DraftKings reach out to guys for input that aren’t leading the field in paying rake. That’s a slippery one-sided slope.

  • ckamins87

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    Every quarter you win in DFS is taken from someone else. Lets chill out on this moral high ground talk, this isn’t a board game. People are going to monetize their skill in whatever ways the sites allow. Friends sharing lineups will never end, and while you may be angry seeing top players doing it, I can guarantee a significant portion of the middle class players who have friends that play share lineups as well (you just don’t notice or care since they might not win). I also find it odd there is some magical moral line drawn between being ok with a tout site that gives out picks, but being against sharing lineups…and then to complain about the latter on the former is even stranger.

    I’m against circumventing entry limits like OP’s last public shaming, but this post is uncalled for imo, and assani is a better man than me as I would not have been so nice (met him at the dk baseball final and he is a cool dude). AEjones’ response is probably more in line with how I would respond lol

  • Shipmymoney

    • 56

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    • Ranked #7

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      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

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    @aejones said...

    How about millions?

    He wins, as usual

  • Mphst18

    Week 2 NFL Teams:

    Aejones/WZDRICH/KUNU88 (assaini was not part of the team this week and scored less then the team)

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27764969?uc=481081363
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28094344?uc=480900222
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28175236?uc=480961873

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28101495?uc=480877408

    Daut/MIR/Aboveandbeyond

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27785517?uc=480935228
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27922880?uc=480942530

    Condia/1ucor

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/27989047?uc=482146017
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28111557?uc=482136659

  • CDonaldson83

    I would just really like to see the Pro’s play without any assistance from lineup Optimizers, Scripts, Algo’s etc. Try putting in 150 different lineups by hand and see how long that takes. I tried it last week and it took me forever.

  • Zieg30

    @CDonaldson83 said...

    I would just really like to see the Pro’s play without any assistance from lineup Optimizers, Scripts, Algo’s etc. Try putting in 150 different lineups by hand and see how long that takes. I tried it last week and it took me forever.

    But it was your choice to put in 150 different lineups by hand. You didn’t have to.

  • tjabchs6

    @CDonaldson83 said...

    I would just really like to see the Pro’s play without any assistance from lineup Optimizers, Scripts, Algo’s etc. Try putting in 150 different lineups by hand and see how long that takes. I tried it last week and it took me forever.

    yeah sorry dude, there are ways to go about the point I think you’re ultimately trying to make but this is definitely not a winning argument.

    what it seems like you’re trying to say is that pros have an inherent advantage because they have easier and unfair access to their scripts and algorithms over everyone else. the opportunity for you to do that yourself is just as good as every one of those pros – no matter how you spin it. in fact, the majority of them probably started out by doing what you just mentioned there.

  • Mphst18

    Week 3 NFL TEAM – 7 man syndicate.

    Makeitrain
    Daut
    Wdrzich
    Therobbob20
    Above and beyond
    Kunu88
    Aejones

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28315788?uc=490171223
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28323268?uc=490188806
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28523285?uc=490188757
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28599123?uc=490179007
    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28268667?uc=490188789

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    I have that exact same lineup in DK cash.https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/28270330?uc=486554495

    I can promise you I have never met, nor talked to any of those above guys.

    Just saying.

  • Mphst18

    I would need thre name you play under to see the team.

    Did you have same lineup as team 1 or team 2 in week 1, how about week 2, how about every night in other sports?

    I am not basing this on a small sample size.

    While I am making clear I am not inferring you did this an individual who purchased a lineup can also say I have never talked to or met the person I purchased a lineup from, just saying.

  • deactivated84892

    @Mphst18 said...

    While I am making clear I am not inferring you did this an individual who purchased a lineup can also say I have never talked to or met the person I purchased a lineup from, just saying.

    You can also just say that it was “x” model on “x” optimizer and boom. That’s 100% legal.

  • Mphst18

    Yes not sure how they differentiate the teams(night in and night out identical) from lineup sellers( which they declare against the rules)

  • TwoSHAE

    Seems like guys operating as a team should not be playing the same double ups. Running same h2h lineup is fine IMO.

  • Zieg30

    @TwoSHAE said...

    Seems like guys operating as a team should not be playing the same double ups. Running same h2h lineup is fine IMO.

    They should only not be playing the same double ups if they’re pooling profits/losses.

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