NASCAR FORUM

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  • stevietpfl

    Morning Grind co-host, Lead NASCAR Analyst

    • 926

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    There’s been a lot of talk about NASCAR this year being too chalky, and with the off-week, I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on how to improve it.

    I’ve said multiple times, I think adding a 7th driver would actually increase overlap. I really think adding stage points would change the whole strategy, and make you use guys you’d typically fade. Would certainly increase the player pool every weekend, and you wouldn’t be able to knock it down to 15-20 driver every week. I was a huge fan of the pass differential points, but I understand why DraftKings decided to get rid of them.

  • billholler

    @heartman said...

    Are you being serious Bill?

    No really, tell me how taking away points for laps lead and place differential is going to reduce chalk and duplicate lineups. Reducing points is just going to bunch every lineup closer together. Then we are back to only winning a GPP with the optimal LU and even then there is little chance of it being a unique LU.

  • billholler

    @heartman said...

    . Mcdowell, Ragan and Cassill have been chalky plays every week mainly because of place differential poinrts.

    Ummmm….this Ragan chalk thing is a recency bias. He’s been driving for a while and just now starting to actually finish races and improve his position. He also went through a brief stretch last year where he was heavily rostered but eventually faded away.
    McDowell has gone backwards in 5 of his last 7 races. Cassill, even though he was heavily rostered last week, has only improved his position by at least 5 spots 4 out of 11 races. Maybe you just don’t understand the definition of chalk or maybe you just started playing Nascar DFS a few weeks ago.

  • Jcicc

    @heartman said...

    Are you being serious Bill?

    Who are some of the chalky plays we’re trying to reduce?

    !. The polesitter and just about any top 3 qualifier has been huge chalk because of too many laps led points. If you don’t nail the dominator then your chances of winning any contest are pretty slim.

    2. Mcdowell, Ragan and Cassill have been chalky plays every week mainly because of place differential poinrts.

    Why would you expect to have a chance at winning any contest without nailing the dominator(s)?

  • heartman

    @Jcicc said...

    Why would you expect to have a chance at winning any contest without nailing the dominator(s)?

    Why should just 1 driver in a 6 driver lineup be the completely overwhelming factor as to who wins a H2H or 50/50 contest. If you pick the dominator and 5 other drivers who have an average day then in most cases you’ll beat a lineup with 6 drivers who had a very good day. There’s more skill involved in picking 6 good drivers.

    The dominator should absolutely score the most points but not nearly double the field like we see now with the top driver scoring 125pts and the next highest score being 60 or 70. It’s ridiculous imo. Laps led has never been the most important stat in Nascar but it is at DK for some races.

  • billholler

    @heartman said...

    The dominator should absolutely score the most points but not nearly double the field like we see now with the top driver scoring 125pts and the next highest score being 60 or 70. It’s ridiculous imo. Laps led has never been the most important stat in Nascar but it is at DK for some races.

    So now we are once again back to the argument that if a driver leads 60% or more of the total laps that you should still be able to win a DFS contest if you didn’t roster him. That is ridiculous.

  • billholler

    @Jcicc said...

    Why would you expect to have a chance at winning any contest without nailing the dominator(s)?

    It appears that DFS is being invaded by the “participation trophy” generation.

  • bigperm0107

    or we could leave it as is since I have cashed every week but one. 😁

  • billholler

    @bigperm0107 said...

    or we could leave it as is since I have cashed every week but one. 😁

    I’m all for leaving it the hell alone or give us back the scoring we had last year.

  • heartman

    @billholler said...

    Now I know you just started Nascar DFS.

    This thread is not about you and me Bill but I’m going to respond here because you continue to bring it up.

    Maybe I’ve been a Nascar fan since about 1972,can’t remember.

    Maybe I was one of the absolute best Nascar gambling professionals many years ago who moved lines at several sportsbooks including 5dimes.

    I may have owned a small Nascar DFS website a few years back.It’s possible.

  • billholler

    Since RG stats are the only gauge I have to go by and you’ve been here 3 years, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that none of that is possible.

  • heartman

    You’re usually right Bill.

  • billholler

    @heartman said...

    You’re usually right Bill.

    You spelled “always” wrong.

    I think we can all agree that DK has a mediocre Nascar product that could be so much better. My only real complaint is the never ending fluctuation in GPPs from week to week. They will run a $4 GPP that pays 50k to win and fills the night before. Then the next week they cut the entries in half and only pay 15k or less. It’s popularity has grown and will fill every week no matter what otehr sporting events are going on. Makes no sense. Build up your product just to tear it back down.

  • heartman

    @billholler said...

    I think we can all agree that DK has a mediocre Nascar product that could be so much better

    Agree but the chances of DK making any changes are pretty slim. Hope I’m wrong!

  • billholler

    @heartman said...

    Agree but the chances of DK making any changes are pretty slim. Hope I’m wrong!

    WOOHOO!!! We agree on something!!! I think just improving the point system for finishing positions would make a dramatic difference and at the same time appease us degenerates.

  • jakz101

    • 691

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x5

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Wow I’m in the same boat at Yisman. I was sitting here thinking “when the F did they get rid of place differential?”

  • EvilSurge

    1) I still fail to see how pricing after qualifying is a good idea.

    You shouldn’t be shown by DK who’s specifically a good play cuz of their scoring system and is likely not something they want to do.

    2) @BillHoller the idea of reducing some of the PD and dominator points is that if those drivers become less valuable then ownership gets spread out more even. The better drivers at the back won’t always have such high ownership if their PD is less valuable.

    I would still tend to agree that it’s NOT broke. The fact that qualifying itself has largely affected a lot of chalk cuz of PD says you would make a change to scoring just cuz NASCAR can’t get the Q done. And if the Q truly is a constant issue more often than not, than yes, PD should prob be reduced.

  • Chitownkiller

    @billholler said...

    I like that idea too but seems like extra work for DK with no real incentive for them to do that. Also don’t think they would risk the overlay since any entries prior to qualifying would be reservation only entries. In most cases, would only give them about 18 hours to fill a large GPP once salaries are released.

    Adding pricing after qualifying would decrease the amount of entries per tourney. There are several thousands of people who make or save line ups before then. We are complaining already about the horrible pay outs now and the tourneys offered.

    What I think could be an option is not only giving out pts for who wins the stage, but also points to the top 10 who receive points for that stage simular to the drivers who receive points in the actual race. Adding points to the winner of the stage just goes to dominators anyway and really doesn’t change much with line up construction. Not sure this is an easy fix or what the points would be. DK may have to put a temp solution in and change the over all scoring per finishing position and place diff to work going into next year. What is everyone’s thoughts on that?

  • Chitownkiller

    @EvilSurge said...

    1) I still fail to see how pricing after qualifying is a good idea.

    You shouldn’t be shown by DK who’s specifically a good play cuz of their scoring system and is likely not something they want to do.

    2) @BillHoller the idea of reducing some of the PD and dominator points is that if those drivers become less valuable then ownership gets spread out more even. The better drivers at the back won’t always have such high ownership if their PD is less valuable.

    I would still tend to agree that it’s NOT broke. The fact that qualifying itself has largely affected a lot of chalk cuz of PD says you would make a change to scoring just cuz NASCAR can’t get the Q done. And if the Q truly is a constant issue more often than not, than yes, PD should prob be reduced.

    Problem with reducing place differential is if you do that then your just picking more dominators in your line up to capture the Laps lead and Fastest laps. Instead of making line ups less chalky you made them twice as chalky since there is usually only a handful of drivers that have an opportunity to get dominator points outside of restrictor plate tracks.

  • MMM107

    @billholler said...

    That is all that is needed even though I have no serious complaints about the way it is now. No reason to only have 1 point separating each finishing position from 2nd through last and only 4 points difference between the top 2. I believe there have been 2 large field GPPs so far this season that were won without the winning LU having the winning driver. Make it more like PGA where 1st place gets 10 points more than 2nd and 2nd-7th get 2 points more than the spot below them.

    AGREE

  • Neiderman

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    I pretty much stopped playing NASCAR on DK… points system needs corrected. If my lineup up has drivers that finished 1 and 2. They both end up with less points than two crap drivers that started in the back and survived wrecks and picked up 20 placement points. That’s retarded.
    DK needs to increase the points for drivers that finish in the top 5 or top 10 and award 1st place with at least 20 more points. Also fastest lap points are a joke pure luck also confirming this data is sketchy.

  • petey28

    Good idea BD. Have the top 15 drivers all cost the same price 10000. The next 10 6000 and the other 10-15 3500. And get rid of all scoring and just have where guys finish. All this dumb scoring makes us not want to play. But bonus points for the most laps led. And maybe bonus points for the winner of each stage.

  • Yacht67

    wouldnt using stage pts just make it even higher variance?

  • billholler

    @Yacht67 said...

    wouldnt using stage pts just make it even higher variance?

    Probably makes the top 2 qualifiers even more chalky.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @Yacht67 said...

    wouldnt using stage pts just make it even higher variance?

    would certainly make the drivers starting up front more attractive at most tracks

  • rog11sm

    I am not a fan of bonus points but what about if a points were awarded for nailing 1st 2nd and third or all 6 in the top 10 or 12 ?
    How would the scoring look if we got rid of place differential for the positive and onky kept it for the negative and awarded more points and more emphasis for finishing positions?

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