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  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    Thursday, 6/13

    9:00 PM EST : Toronto ( 3 ) at Golden State ( -3 ) —- T: 211.5

    Admin Note: The mod team is working to keep these daily threads more on topic – NBA strategy talk for today’s games. Post referring to yesterdays games will be moved to yesterdays NBA thread. Any off topic posts or posts containing full lineups will be deleted..

  • tmarohl

    @miggs6876 said...

    Great synopsis.

    I should add to point #5, because what I am basically saying, is that Warriors leaked to the media that KD was “cleared” to play in game 5. That basically put undue pressure on him, because it was either man up and play with your injury, or the press, team mates and social media will destroy you for being a pussy.

  • tmarohl

    @miggs6876 said...

    True. Similar situation to Boogie. Wonder, who will sign him and basically lose a year or more waiting for him to heal and fully come back.. Also, a small chance he doesn’t come back like the same KD.

    Not really similar to Boogie. KD is an elite player who will be able to adjust his game. He will become an even better jump shooter, if that is even possible. Boogie is just a brute force, that really is not that good now that the Achilles injury and quad tear has taken away his athleticism. I don’t think he can jump over the San Francisco yellow pages anymore. Boogie probably needs to drop about 50 lbs and re-invent himself.

  • miggs6876

    @tmarohl said...

    Not really similar to Boogie. KD is an elite player who will be able to adjust his game. He will become an even better jump shooter, if that is even possible. Boogie is just a brute force, that really is not that good now that the Achilles injury and quad tear has taken away his athleticism. I don’t think he can jump over the San Francisco yellow pages anymore. Boogie probably needs to drop about 50 lbs and re-invent himself.

    Fair point. Boogie is a shell of himself. I think I’m in the minority thinking Boogie was elite before his injuries. I just recall him and AD basically being unstoppable. Remember seeing him running the floor, driving to the hole, and hitting 3 pointers.

  • tmarohl

    @miggs6876 said...

    Fair point. Boogie is a shell of himself. I think I’m in the minority thinking Boogie was elite before his injuries. I just recall him and AD basically being unstoppable. Remember seeing him running the floor, driving to the hole, and hitting 3 pointers.

    Boogie was always an elite talent with great skills. He has bad emotional makeup though, can’t really win with a player like that in the long run as your one or two guy. He was a good complimentary piece, but not the center point of a team like he was in Sacremento. He has the potential to be about the third best player on a good team, where he is not the focal point. Assuming he loses that 50 lbs and regains some athleticism.

  • tmarohl

    Kevin Pelton
    ESPN Staff Writer
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    What does Klay Thompson ACL injury mean for his future and the Golden State Warriors?

    The disappointment of the Warriors falling short in their quest for a third consecutive championship was overshadowed by the news late Thursday night that Thompson tore the ACL in his left knee when he landed awkwardly after being fouled on a transition dunk attempt.

    Thompson will now head into unrestricted free agency for the first time in his career while rehabbing the injury and facing an uncertain timeline for his return during the 2019-20 season, much like teammate Kevin Durant, who suffered a ruptured Achilles during Game 5 of the NBA Finals. How will that impact Thompson and how can Golden State replace him in the short term?

    How long can Thompson be expected to miss?
    Though Durant’s Achilles injury produces greater fear than the relatively more common ACL tear, the reality is ACL rehab has typically taken longer in recent years. As teams have become more conservative bringing their players back after surgery, no NBA player has returned to action in fewer than 10 and a half months since J.J. Hickson in 2014. (Hickson returned after just seven and a half months.)

    An 11-month timetable has been typical for ACL injuries in that span, with some rehab processes taking even longer. Most notably, Kristaps Porzingis ended up missing the entire 2018-19 season after tearing his ACL in February 2018, meaning he wasn’t considered ready to return some 14 months after the injury.

    With that in mind, the Warriors — or another team with whom Thompson signs — have to be prepared for him to miss the duration of the 2019-20 regular season before potentially attempting to return in the playoffs.

    How does that affect Thompson’s free agency?
    Unlike Durant, Thompson does not have a player option, meaning he’s headed for free agency this summer no matter what. Although Thompson’s maximum salary is less than Durant’s — he’s still in the bracket for players with 7-9 years of experience, projected for a 2019-20 maximum of $32.7 million as compared to $38.15 million for players like Durant with 10 or more years of experience — a max deal for him surely carries somewhat more risk because Thompson has not historically been as elite a player as Durant.

    Thompson’s best leverage in free agency is his importance to Golden State, which would be shy of max-level cap space even in the unlikely scenario where both Durant and Thompson to sign elsewhere. That would make it virtually impossible for the Warriors to replace both players in free agency. Given everything Thompson has meant to Golden State’s run of three championships in five consecutive trips to the NBA Finals, it seems unthinkable the Warriors would risk letting him walk in free agency.

    One possibility is Golden State offering Thompson a five-year max deal that no other team could match, but with some partial guarantees that would offer the Warriors cap relief in a worst-case scenario should Thompson deal with more injuries in the future. Joel Embiid 2017 extension with the Philadelphia 76ers could be a model for such an offer.

    How might Golden State replace Thompson?
    One way or another, the Warriors will find themselves needing to fill in for Thompson and Durant in 2019-20 — perhaps for just a single season (or part of it), but perhaps permanently if either or both players head elsewhere.

    Assuming Thompson re-signs, Golden State would likely be limited to the taxpayer midlevel exception (projected at $5.7 million) to add free agents for more than the veteran’s minimum. And the Warriors would somehow need to find new starters at both shooting guard and small forward — or at least someone capable of playing big minutes at small forward if veteran Andre Iguodala starts there, given Iguodala’s age.

    If Durant signs elsewhere, Thompson’s injury could add urgency to Golden State’s pursuit of a sign-and-trade deal that would create a trade exception in the amount of Durant’s 2019-20 salary to trade for more expensive players. Convincing the team that lands Durant to do a sign-and-trade rather than signing him outright using cap space would probably require the Warriors parting with draft picks, something they’ve been reluctant to do during their championship run.

    Alternatively, I suppose it’s possible that Golden State might look at next season as a one-year break from the emotionally and physically draining pursuit of championships. The Warriors could regroup in 2020-21 with Thompson and/or Durant back on the court, hoping to use next season to develop younger alternatives like 2018 first-round pick Jacob Evans and reserve Alfonzo McKinnie for depth purposes.

    But that prospect seems unlikely with the core of the team save Draymond Green (29) in their 30s. Each year of late-prime Stephen Curry is too valuable to let go to waste. A step-back season would also be a tough way to open a pricey new arena in San Francisco.

    Adding salary via a Durant sign-and-trade would hit Golden State’s pocketbooks hard, what with the team potentially entering the repeater tax next season. That means that each additional dollar the Warriors spend would cost a minimum of $2.50 more in luxury taxes. That’s the price the Warriors have to pay to keep this championship core together, though their move to the more profitable Chase Center will help offset the tax bill.

    Golden State’s front office won’t have much time to lament the NBA Finals loss and heartbreaking injuries to Durant and Thompson. With the NBA draft a week away and free agency a week and a half after that, the Warriors must soon get to work figuring out how to replace two of the league’s best players.

  • bure10

    Kawhi got hurt against GS, Cavs lost Kyrie and Love, CP3 got hurt last year. If you play long enough injuries will hurt and benefit you, no title is tainted.

    I thought Doris was just trying to stir shit up yesterday poor taste IMO, asking what he would say to DD and what Gasol would say to his ex team like lol thats unnecessary and obviously Kawhi was not going to comment on free agency so why put him in that spot.

    I hope he stays but if he doesnt Im okay with it, he brought up a trophy.

  • Njsum1

    If Klay doesn’t get hurt, the series goes back to Toronto for a game 7. Nice win for the Raptors, tougher loss (all around) for the Warriors.

    Warriors showed a lot of heart this series. Have a good offseason everyone.

  • gaelicgirl

    @tmarohl said...

    Warriors might as well just trade Curry now to a contender and rebuild.

    LOL You can’t be serious!

    This is even crazier than your KD conspiracy theories, and that’s saying a lot.
    First of all, congratulations to the Raptors on their first championship ever. They fought hard to win it, they deserve it, and no asterisks will be attached to it by me.
    Obviously I’m sad for Klay and KD, the league won’t be the same next year without two of its brightest stars. As for the Warriors, I’m confident that they’ll re-sign them both and be back to compete for more titles as soon as they’ve recovered from their injuries. In the meantime, NBA fans will get to enjoy something that they haven’t seen since the Warriors started their run of dominance, a wide open field with several great teams fighting tooth and nail to see who gets to raise the trophy in 2020. It’s gonna be fun to watch!

  • gaelicgirl

    @Njsum1 said...

    If Klay doesn’t get hurt, the series goes back to Toronto for a game 7. Nice win for the Raptors, tougher loss (all around) for the Warriors.

    Warriors showed a lot of heart this series. Have a good offseason everyone.

    See you in October!

  • realphipps

    Can someone confirm the latest/last day to claim DK NBA achievements?

    Hoping I can wait until Sept 1.

  • tmarohl

    @gaelicgirl said...

    LOL You can’t be serious!

    This is even crazier than your KD conspiracy theories, and that’s saying a lot.
    First of all, congratulations to the Raptors on their first championship ever. They fought hard to win it, they deserve it, and no asterisks will be attached to it by me.
    Obviously I’m sad for Klay and KD, the league won’t be the same next year without two of its brightest stars. As for the Warriors, I’m confident that they’ll re-sign them both and be back to compete for more titles as soon as they’ve recovered from their injuries. In the meantime, NBA fans will get to enjoy something that they haven’t seen since the Warriors started their run of dominance, a wide open field with several great teams fighting tooth and nail to see who gets to raise the trophy in 2020. It’s gonna be fun to watch!

    Actually, partially serious about rebuilding. That luxury tax will be a killer.
    I also don’t think my theories about KD are a conspiracy. I honestly believe my theory is pretty close to what went down.

  • telestraightshooter

    @tmarohl said...

    ACL rehab has typically taken longer in recent years. As teams have become more conservative bringing their players back after surgery, no NBA player has returned to action in fewer than 10 and a half months since J.J. Hickson in 2014. (Hickson returned after just seven and a half months.)

    An 11-month timetable has been typical for ACL injuries in that span, with some rehab processes taking even longer. Most notably, Kristaps Porzingis ended up missing the entire 2018-19 season after tearing his ACL in February 2018, meaning he wasn’t considered ready to return some 14 months after the injury.

    I am mildly surprised by this assessment.
    Advances in medicine, such as stem cell therapy have noticeably reduces recovery time for most injuries.

    The main factor here is was ACL tear complete or partial? if not complete tear it’s a sprained ACL.
    The fact he could jog/ jump on it clearly indicates it was not a complete tear.

    https://twitter.com/profootballdoc?lang=en

    My optimistic best guess is back by Christmas, 6 months.

    Notable ACL recoveries

    Kyle Lowery
    Jabari Parker
    Zach Lavine
    Jamal Crawford
    Cory Brewer
    Baron Davis
    David West

  • telestraightshooter

    @tmarohl said...

    GG will think I am a conspiracy theorist

    Well, you are
    ;^>

    1) KD injures his Achilles vs the Rockets. Not a rupture, but a strain or partial tear.
    agreed – ice bags don’t lie, they might slide down, but not w/ NBA trainers world class tourniquet via tape mad skillz

    4) Warriors keep putting it out there that KD will be returning in the finals.
    imho – most likely phyc ops by team GsW on opposition & KD was probably #1 fan of him returning ASAP
    the fact is most athletes at this level are wired/ driven to compete, to the point of less than rational behavior, like forcing his way on court before recovering to a reasonable risk level.

    KD KNEW he was healthy enough to push the dubs over the top – KD was +6 in only 11 mins
    ….could be KD told front office “if I dont get chance to get out there, I will be playing on team LeBron next year! They clearly need me, even at 60% !!!”

    and they did. Too bad he could not play just 6 mins to open halfs & then as relief pitcher hitting set shots ONLY

  • telestraightshooter

    @telestraightshooter said...

    Klay gets even more peripherals, he could hit a dfs 50 burger in this game 6.

    was heading for a 60 burger @ 1.4 fPts per min
    (42 in 30)

  • gaelicgirl

    @tmarohl said...

    Actually, partially serious about rebuilding. That luxury tax will be a killer.

    KD used FaceTime to talk to Klay while he was in the locker room last night. “They were encouraging each other to come back strong,” Mychal Thompson said. “They got unfinished business.”
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26971803/decimated-warriors-already-unfinished-business
    Call this the end of the Warriors dynasty at your peril. They’ll be back.

  • gaelicgirl

    @telestraightshooter said...

    was heading for a 60 burger @ 1.4 fPts per min

    Had a feeling we’d see a Game 6 Klay performance for the ages, it’s a shame it was cut short by injury.

  • tmarohl

    @gaelicgirl said...

    KD used FaceTime to talk to Klay while he was in the locker room last night. “They were encouraging each other to come back strong,” Mychal Thompson said. “They got unfinished business.”
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26971803/decimated-warriors-already-unfinished-business
    Call this the end of the Warriors dynasty at your peril. They’ll be back.

    GG – I think they try to re-sign Klay and Durant. Throw next year away. They might look to deal Draymond and Iggy. No reason to keep Iggy around at 17M next season when he will probably retire after next season. Send him somewhere for his final year where he can win and reduce your luxury tax. They probably are not going to want to play Draymond the max when he becomes a free agent a year from now. They might want to consider trading him for some younger players or draft picks and also reducing the luxury tax.

  • telestraightshooter

    @tmarohl said...

    Throw next year away.

    ?!? this posit puzzles me

    next years roster for playoff run
    1) Curry
    2) Dray
    3) Klay (after Chistmas?)
    4) Boogie

    name me another team in West that clearly tops that.

  • gaelicgirl

    @tmarohl said...

    GG – I think they try to re-sign Klay and Durant. Throw next year away.

    Agree completely with this part. They won’t be able to win it all next year, so I’d be perfectly fine with them not even making the postseason – they need the rest more. I suspect that the number of games they’ve played over the past 5 years finally caught up with them, and was a contributing factor in the injuries to Klay and KD. Not to mention the number of minutes the core had to play in each game because they were so top-heavy and didn’t have a deep enough bench. I have a new respect for “load management” LOL
    Andre’s contract is guaranteed through the 2019-20 season, and he’s already said that he’ll be back next year. He also said that he keeps playing to “protect Steph’s legacy,” so I don’t think he’d be interested in playing somewhere else even if that was an option. I think Andre will stay with the Warriors until he decides to retire.
    Have to disagree about Draymond, too. As much of a pain in the ass as he can be at times, the Warriors understand how important he is to the team. There’s no replacing him. I don’t know why you keep mentioning reducing the luxury tax, as that’s simply not a concern for the owners. They care about putting the best team possible on the floor and winning championships, period.
    I don’t know about you, but I can’t wait until 6 pm ET on June 30.
    Let the NBA third season begin!

    Someone should start a free agency thread on the 30th…maybe I will if nobody else thinks of it.

  • tmarohl

    @telestraightshooter said...

    ?!? this posit puzzles me

    next years roster for playoff run
    1) Curry
    2) Dray
    3) Klay (after Chistmas?)
    4) Boogie

    name me another team in West that clearly tops that.

    After June 30th, possibly 6 or 7 at least. As the way things stand now, I would say Houston, Denver, Portland are better. If Lakers get Davis, they will be better. If AD stays in New Orleans, they will be better. If Clippers get another guy, they are probably better. OKC probably better. It will be a long shot for GS to make the playoffs, and if they do, it will probably be as a 7 or 8 seed.

    Klay is probably looking at at least 9 months before he plays, maybe not even at all next season. After watching two Jabari Parker rehabs, it is a very long process.
    Boogie won’t be back with the Warriors most likely

  • tmarohl

    @gaelicgirl said...

    Agree completely with this part. They won’t be able to win it all next year, so I’d be perfectly fine with them not even making the postseason – they need the rest more. I suspect that the number of games they’ve played over the past 5 years finally caught up with them, and was a contributing factor in the injuries to Klay and KD. Not to mention the number of minutes the core had to play in each game because they were so top-heavy and didn’t have a deep enough bench. I have a new respect for “load management” LOL
    Andre’s contract is guaranteed through the 2019-20 season, and he’s already said that he’ll be back next year. He also said that he keeps playing to “protect Steph’s legacy,” so I don’t think he’d be interested in playing somewhere else even if that was an option. I think Andre will stay with the Warriors until he decides to retire.
    Have to disagree about Draymond, too. As much of a pain in the ass as he can be at times, the Warriors understand how important he is to the team. There’s no replacing him. I don’t know why you keep mentioning reducing the luxury tax, as that’s simply not a concern for the owners. They care about putting the best team possible on the floor and winning championships, period.
    I don’t know about you, but I can’t wait until 6 pm ET on June 30.
    Let the NBA third season begin!

    Someone should start a free agency thread on the 30th…maybe I will if nobody else thinks of it.

    Do it

  • tmarohl

    GG – I keep mentioning the Luxury Tax, because even rich guys don’t want to give away $200 million if they don’t have to.

  • McDanos

    Good luck to all. See you in 130 days for opening night

  • yisman

    @realphipps said...

    Can someone confirm the latest/last day to claim DK NBA achievements?

    Hoping I can wait until Sept 1.

    it’s 30 days from whenever the season ends

    so for playoff achievements you’d have until July 12 or something

    not sure where you’re getting September from

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