NBA FORUM

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  • KATburger

    • Blogger of the Month

    I’m calling on the RG community to stand up to FD and demand that we have late swap on the main slates for the NBA season. I have spent the past few moments detailing to the live chat representative how it’s extremely unfair to adapt changes to MLB and NFL for the current/ending seasons and blatantly ignore the sport that is impacted the most by not having late swap. Already for opening night were forced to make decisions with multiple players set as a GTD in the late game and with all of the late lineup changes and last second decisions on players last year there’s no reason to have not made these changes in the NBA format. They stated there “Looking into it in the future.” and “Many customers have requested it.” This should have been a decision that was made at the end of the the playoffs last year. For them to think making those changes to other sports and completely disregarding NBA is truly a slap in the face to us DFS players. I understand that not everyone cares about about this issue but from an antitrust point of view or consumer protection in general this change needs to happen. Anyone not max entering lineups is harmed from non swap format being applied to the main slates. Obviously there are other DFS sites that offer the product that appeals to myself and other DFSers however that does not fix the negligence currently taking place at FD pertaining to this issue. With RG being a frequent sponsor of events I feel this is the appropriate platform to speak on this issue and show the management at fanduel that we will not tolerate different sports being formatted at there sole discretion at the expense of the consumer. I far to often donated to the cause last year whether it was game postponements or surprise scratches. This could become a regulatory issue in the future as well. If DFS sites don’t offer some sort of protection to its consumers DFS will not last. Not to mention the relationship between DFS players and TV viewings, if i’m unable to play due to the extreme risk involved without late swap I wont be purchasing league pass, I wont be viewing any teams other than my Minnesota Timberwolves, I wont be scouring #ESPN gamecast while i’m away from home and ultimately the NBA will suffer at a time when they could capture the crown as Americas favorite sport with the decline in the NFL. So either the NBA needs to adapt their approach and offer lineup news earlier which is highly unrealistic or FD needs to adopt a policy to better protect us from these situations. I’ll take the ladder.

    Obviously there will be several different opinions or views to this topic. But as a daily player of all sports MLB, NFL and NBA (some occasional NHL, PGA) this seems like a fair request and those who feel the same should speak up and contact FD about this. Any support from the RG administrators or management as a lead on this issue would be appreciated as you often sponsor FD events. If we join together as a community we can correct this issue. Thanks for taking the time to read through.

  • crazypaul

    @bhdevault said...

    I also pay attention to all the times that late scratches have helped me win. It doesn’t always just make you lose.

    I feel there is a distinct edge in knowing how west coast coaches treat certian players on back to backs or road games and using that information to fade or use as an edge.

    I love not having late swap for family reasons and have benefited more than got hurt by late scratches.

  • Jvanspro

    I love not having late swap. I have much more important things to do than watch for news all night. It’s nice to not worry about it after lock.

  • Njsum1

    I think there was like a 50 page thread on this last year when DK went no late swap. Personally, I don’t like late swap for reasons that bhdevault, bigez952, and dubchr7 stated, among many more. One of them is that all my research and early day lineup building often goes out the window with late swap, cause if a 3k point guard is getting a start due to injury and is expected to get 35 minutes of run, I’m going to have to redo almost all my lineups.

    Yet I do think people should have choices and it would be great if sites would offer both. Yet here’s a fair warning though for those late swap truthers….you’re going to be playing against much better competition in late swap tourneys as people don’t just use late swap to swap off scratches, they enter dummy lineups and wait on news all night and make completely news driven lineups, where if you don’t do the same, you’re toast, especially after all star break.

  • sethayates

    @Njsum1 said...

    people don’t just use late swap to swap off scratches, they enter dummy lineups and wait on news all night and make completely news driven lineups, where if you don’t do the same, you’re toast, especially after all star break

    This is one of my favorite strategies. A lot of times there’s just one or two games starting at 7:00 and they are usually slow-paced. If you lock in a dummy lineup you get an extra 30 minutes or even an hour to make decisions. As anyone who has played NBA knows, that time between 7 and 730 can be incredibly valuable

  • Njsum1

    @sethayates said...

    This is one of my favorite strategies. A lot of times there’s just one or two games starting at 7:00 and they are usually slow-paced. If you lock in a dummy lineup you get an extra 30 minutes or even an hour to make decisions. As anyone who has played NBA knows, that time between 7 and 730 can be incredibly valuable

    Exactly, just pointing out they’ll be up against sharp players in late swap tourneys, and your post proved my point. To truly compete in an NBA late swap GPP you’ll have to compete against sharp thinkers with specific late swap strategies and monitor news and be ready to adjust lineups until 10pm. Youre not just competing against regular guys who want to get off a late scratch.

    As I also said earlier, both types of tourneys would be nice as people should have options and play the kind of game they prefer.

  • briski514

    DK brought it back with late swap only contests

  • Njsum1

    I prefer no late swap, yet it’s great to see DK offering both types of contests, as people now have the option to play the type of game they prefer. Great move IMO by DK.

  • madmanjayWV

    @Njsum1 said...

    I prefer no late swap, yet it’s great to see DK offering both types of contests, as people now have the option to play the type of game they prefer. Great move IMO by DK.

    There is no option for people to play the type of contests they prefer when the GPPs blow chunks for one version (late swap) and not the other.

  • jtkucheck

    @madmanjayWV said...

    There is no option for people to play the type of contests they prefer when the GPPs blow chunks for one version (late swap) and not the other.

    But hey, at least they both have 16% rake.

  • madmanjayWV

    @briski514 said...

    DK brought it back with late swap only contests

    SWEET if you’re a cash game player, I guess.

  • JustDFSin

    Right. It is a good middle ground for both. Next the argument will be why one prize pool is bigger than the other.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @madmanjayWV said...

    There is no option for people to play the type of contests they prefer when the GPPs blow chunks for one version (late swap) and not the other.

    Yep and its by design “See! We told you people prefer no late swap!” :eyeroll:

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @JustDFSin said...

    Right. It is a good middle ground for both

    Wait whut? Look at the prize pools again and then try telling someone this is middle ground

  • AxeGrinder

    I hope that at least one of DK or FD tries to make the prizepools at least a little close for non late-swap vs late swap. One million vs 25k for non late-swap on both sites pretty much takes away the choice if you want to play for big prize amounts. I asked DK repeatedly to make contests with the same prizepool and see which is the most popular. Let their customers vote with their wallets, pretty simple. They wouldn’t do a poll. I think that they are catering to the max entry people if I had to guess and pretend that casuals want non late swap when casuals hate getting a zero from a surprise scratch just like everyone else. I call BS to people who claim that they have to spend 7 hours in front of their computer and it destroys their family. DK Live and RG and others text and email you the information. I just want the opportunity to replace the guy who stands to get a zero and not to redo the whole slate. I hope DK and FD make it fair and make contests almost with the same prizepool in upcoming contests.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @AxeGrinder said...

    I think that they are catering to the max entry people

    Yep, but remember, this totally isnt gambling. They wont chance making the prize pools even remotely equal dont worry about it

  • tmspriggs

    The “sitting by the laptop” is not a thing. You only need a phone in your pocket. Y’all are looking at your phones anyway, checking email, texts, social media, work calls, etc. during family time. So are your wives/gfs btw

  • Njsum1

    @AxeGrinder said...

    . I just want the opportunity to replace the guy who stands to get a zero and not to redo the whole slate

    If this is the only way you plan on using late swap, you will be playing checkers while your opponents are playing chess, and will be at a huge disadvantage.

    Everyone hates taking a 0 when it could be avoided, yet most players who really advocate for late swap play a whole different strategy when it comes to NBA with late swap, especially after the All-Star break. And if you’re just using it to swap out a scratch you’d be better off playing non-late swap.

    Separately, it would be nice to see bigger prize pools for late swap, because even though I prefer non late swap, solid choices are nice. I would guess that if the tourneys are filling quickly and early, they might up the prizes at some point.

  • JustDFSin

    @DefinitelyMiami said...

    Wait whut? Look at the prize pools again and then try telling someone this is middle ground

    Let me rephrase that. Something is better than nothing

  • damionismyname

    • Ranked #92

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @JustDFSin said...

    Right. It is a good middle ground for both. Next the argument will be why one prize pool is bigger than the other.

    I can tell you why they should be. Because if the casual player wants to just have their fix they shouldn’t be worried about prize pools thus should settle for having their fun in the no late swap small tourneys if thats all their playing for. What they are doing now is just trying to satisfy ppl with an inferior product hoping they don’t have to hear anymore about it. This summer baseball had late swap but it was for the huge tourneys and no late swap was for the smaller ones. Football has had late swap the entire year. I’m done with this thread and these arguments against late swap. If you have kids, a wife or something else to do then just set it and forget it like late swap never existed or get a phone with updates to make your roster moves appropriately. Who cares right?

    Its either one of two things and both are to make more money. In theory people will put more entries in to cover more options, thus increasing their take so they could care less if you lost $20 on a slate because your guy got scratched at tip. Or they are catering to max entry ppl who are already covering their asses with multiple punts and don’t want more competition through late swappers. I don’t think they have any other reasoning and whatever they say is just bs to appease one camp or the other.

  • curt777

    It would be interesting if DK actually ran a test to see what people wanted more. They should run 4 different $1 $10,000 prize pool or something for the same slate.
    One w/ late swap/20 max entries, one w/ late swap 150 max entries, one w/ no late swap/20 max, and one with no late swap/150 max. See which one fills the fastest.

  • jjwd

    @damionismyname said...

    Its either one of two things and both are to make more money. In theory people will put more entries in to cover more options, thus increasing their take so they could care less if you lost $20 on a slate because your guy got scratched at tip. Or they are catering to max entry ppl who are already covering their asses with multiple punts and don’t want more competition through late swappers.

    Straw man argument. Especially in NBA, it’s not uncommon to have 70% or more exposure to a single guy. For the one millionth time… 150 entries is not a silver bullet. No late swap caters to casual players.

  • coachspitz

    No late swap is preferable to the casual player like myself. Nothing improved the NBA experience more for me than the removal of late swap last year

  • KindGuy

    I would consider myself a “casual grinder”. I play often but not as my main source of income or even as supplemental income. It’s purely for fun, makes the games more exciting to watch and is a great intellectual task if you let it be. Personally, I prefer no late swap. My DFS NBA experience was improved tremendously when DK decided to remove it. As soon as I submit my lineup, I’m done with it and can go do other things without worrying about any late scratch. “Que sera, sera”. Everybody is on equal footing for the rest of the night.

    It’s good that DK is offering both and I think they have it right when the bigger prize pools are allocated to the Non Late swap group. Casuals make up a larger segment of the DFS population than a lot of you guys think. DK is appeasing that group and thinking forward.

  • mlrfo4

    So DK brought back late swap? Just on some or all NBA? How do you differentiate?

    NM…..just had to scroll down to cash contest basically

  • AxeGrinder

    @Njsum1 said...

    If this is the only way you plan on using late swap, you will be playing checkers while your opponents are playing chess, and will be at a huge disadvantage.

    Everyone hates taking a 0 when it could be avoided, yet most players who really advocate for late swap play a whole different strategy when it comes to NBA with late swap, especially after the All-Star break. And if you’re just using it to swap out a scratch you’d be better off playing non-late swap.

    Separately, it would be nice to see bigger prize pools for late swap, because even though I prefer non late swap, solid choices are nice. I would guess that if the tourneys are filling quickly and early, they might up the prizes at some point.

    When I made my statement, I was thinking about different ways that DK or FD could mitigate the zero for a late scratch by just allowing limited changes such as a 1 for 1 or 2 for 2 or to give some sort of insurance for a late scratch by removing the worst score or giving some projected amount for the late scratch. Obviously, you have to make strategic changes to keep up with your competition or you won’t win but this is how it was for years and how it is in every other sport. There was no huge demand for no late swap and it seemed that they did it suddenly because they wanted to merge with FD.

    I have seen 3 polls and all favor late swap. I asked DK to poll their clients and let the majority decide. They never did so. I asked them to make equal contests and if support for non-late swap is greater than late swap, I will eat my words and support it as well. I just hear the family people want it, the high volume people want it and the casual people want it with not a single poll or any proof either scientific or not to prove that any majority prefers non-late swap. I understand that there are some people that like it and that might be the case for all sports. It just seems that you take the skill out of the game when you hear at 7:05 that your stud player that you went overweight on is a late scratch for a game at 7:30pm and the slate started at 7:00pm so everything is locked. I don’t get how the casuals enjoy that or the sharps either. I feel that it just lowers the ownership on questionable players that are strong gpp plays and just forces people to have risk tolerance for that. At least for those players that are questionable, you have a caveat emptor but is not the case when it comes out of nowhere and you just get a zero.

    I am trying to be hopeful that DK will rectify the prizepools during the year and allow late swap to have big prize pools again if the masses choose it, rather than have DK choose what the masses have to play.

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