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  • tmarohl

    Place to discuss player movement, draft, trades, etc.

  • tmarohl

    Why would Memphis want to trade Jval?

  • yisman

    Pelicans good deal there.

    The rumor yesterday was #10 and Bledsoe straight up for #17

    Mostly the changes were adding Adams and a future first to get JoVal as well.

    They finally succeeded in unloading Bledsoe and Adams.

  • PaperStacking92

    Memphis rumor is to package Bledsoe and 10th pick to move up to inside top 10. Bledsoe still very valuable for defense and can score when he’s on.. Plus his contract is only I think guaranteed 4 Million next season so easy cut candidate

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    @PaperStacking92 said...

    Memphis rumor is to package Bledsoe and 10th pick to move up to inside top 10. Bledsoe still very valuable for defense and can score when he’s on.. Plus his contract is only I think guaranteed 4 Million next season so easy cut candidate

    Rumor or fan wishes? That is not happening.

  • monarch

    I think the Grizzlies won that deal

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    @monarch said...

    I think the Grizzlies won that deal

    Yeah, it’s really perspective. I don’t think teams were knocking down Memphis’ door to get J-Val. I also don’t think he was in Memphis’ long term plans. Not saying he’s a bad player, he’s not, but he’s no all-star or on the cusp of it either.

    At worse Memphis took on some bad salary for a year or two in Bledsoe, and downgraded some at C from J-Val to Adams, and in return moved into a much more favorable 10th pick in the draft from 17th and from 51st to 40th in the second round, PLUS got the Lakers 1st next year.

    All the money NO saves on the trade is mostly just going to be used to sign Ball and Hart long term, so it’s not like it opens up huge possibilities for them.

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    According to both Fischer and Jonathan Wasserman of Bleacher Report, Oklahoma City offered Gilgeous-Alexander and the No. 6 pick in this year’s draft to the Pistons in exchange for the No. 1 overall pick. That was apparently the “legitimate” offer Wasserman alluded to on Monday, which Detroit turned down.

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    I might be crazy, but I really don’t think the Pistons believe Cade is the highest upside guy in the draft. I think they want Green or Mobley, most likely Green, but don’t want the stigma of taking one of them at 1st over Cade, when Cade is the consensus #1.My gut is telling me they’re going to drag this thing to the finish line and get the buzz going between these teams looking to move up (I’m guessing there is more than Houston and OKC) and get a haul for that pick on Thursday.

  • mbunner23

    @Pandamonious said...

    I might be crazy, but I really don’t think the Pistons believe Cade is the highest upside guy in the draft. I think they want Green or Mobley, most likely Green, but don’t want the stigma of taking one of them at 1st over Cade, when Cade is the consensus #1.My gut is telling me they’re going to drag this thing to the finish line and get the buzz going between these teams looking to move up (I’m guessing there is more than Houston and OKC) and get a haul for that pick on Thursday.

    IMO. Mobley has the most potential to be an absolute stud. Cunningham is the safe pick and could end up being the best of the top 3 but I like the ceilings of Mobley and Green a lot. I absolutely love this draft class, like I’ve been on here saying all year.

    In other news.

    Memphis most likely wanted the 10th pic to try to grab the Aussie, Josh Giddey. Take that bet on DK sportsbook. Giddey U 10.5

    I’ve wanted to rant about TEAM USA somewhere so you guys are the lucky ones who end up getting it…

    We can no longer not send our best players to the Olympics/World Cup and expect to win easily. (LeBron, Steph, AD, Harden, etc), need to participate in order for us to feel good about getting a gold medal. The average basketball fan on social media expect us to trot out anyone and win gold, that’s no longer the case. The world has gotten better but I think we have not adjusted to FIBA play, it’s much more physical, team oriented, and just a total different style of play. We’ve been totally outcoached, out hustled, and out smarted. These teams we face play hard and smart. We play stagnant, no movement on offense, no facilitator, no defense, no hustle. It’s been rough to watch, Pop has to take some blame, and Colangelo did a terrible job putting this team together. Dame isn’t playing the role he needs to play IMO, he should be getting others more involved instead of trying to hoist up 30 footers. This isn’t Portland, it’s team USA and KD, Tatum, others can’t get going when your PG is score first, he’s got to adapt.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/dan-wolken/2021/07/25/olympics-mens-basketball-popovich-blame-usa-loses-france/8086604002/

    I placed a $200 bet on the Aussies to win Gold, had it not been for my wife talking some sense into me, I would have placed a $4,000 bet to win $30,000 on Australia. Those are just some of my rants for today. Enjoy the rest of summer fellas.

  • yisman

    Multiple sources confirmed Sunday that the Toronto Raptors have emerged as a team with “significant” interest in Simmons. One source close to talks said discussions have not been substantial as of yet. Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the 4th overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.

    https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-free-agency-2021-draft-intel-ben-simmons-kyle-lowry-cade-cunningham

    =======

    How could that even be a serious offer? That much for Simmons who has a massive contract and has zero confidence? No one is trading all their players plus a lottery pick for Simmons. That’s insane.

  • yisman

    @PaperStacking92 said...

    Memphis rumor is to package Bledsoe and 10th pick to move up to inside top 10. Bledsoe still very valuable for defense and can score when he’s on.. Plus his contract is only I think guaranteed 4 Million next season so easy cut candidate

    I don’t think anyone wants Bledsoe. Pelicans have been trying to unload him and have had a lot of trouble.

    They had to give up draft value to get rid of that contract.

    Bledsoe one of many highly overpaid players. All these huge contracts get handed out and the players only return value for a year or two.

    Bucks gave him 4 years and 70 million and he had like one good season on that contract.

  • yisman

    Jaxson Hayes arrested after brawling with cops at a house.

  • dominicanpapi

    As a Wiz fan, this Beal news is super frustrating. Kinda getting tired of the back and forth.

    I would probably take that deal from the Warriors, which last I checked was Wiseman, Wiggins, Poole, 7, 14 and a future first.

    There’s also a rumor that Boston might offer Brown for Beal since Beal and Tatum are BFFs. That’s probably the only rumored player I’d do a 1 for 1 for.

  • tmarohl

    @monarch said...

    I think the Grizzlies won that deal

    I think the Pelican’s won that deal, and it was not particularly close. They created about 17 or 18 million more in cap space, plus upgraded to Jval from Adams. Cap space will allow them to match offer for Lonzo if they want to, or possibly go out and get a free agent like Lowry. I really don’t see much benefit for Memphis.

    Also, Bledsoe’s deal is guaranteed for next season, but only $3.9 million of the last year is guaranteed.

  • tmarohl

    @yisman said...

    Multiple sources confirmed Sunday that the Toronto Raptors have emerged as a team with “significant” interest in Simmons. One source close to talks said discussions have not been substantial as of yet. Multiple sources including those close to talks said a proposed framework including Raptors guards Kyle Lowry, Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the 4th overall pick in Thursday’s draft for Simmons was rejected by Toronto.

    https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-free-agency-2021-draft-intel-ben-simmons-kyle-lowry-cade-cunningham

    =======

    How could that even be a serious offer? That much for Simmons who has a massive contract and has zero confidence? No one is trading all their players plus a lottery pick for Simmons. That’s insane.

    Not to mention they can’t trade Lowry because he is a free agent.

  • gaelicgirl

    @tmarohl said...

    To me Bucks championship means more than the last two Packers superbowl wins by about 100 X. What do you guys and gals think?

    I think it’s wonderful that they finally won another championship after a 50-year drought.
    So happy for Giannis, too!

  • tmarohl

    @gaelicgirl said...

    I think it’s wonderful that they finally won another championship after a 50-year drought.
    So happy for Giannis, too!

    I agree GG – Thanks.

  • monarch

    @tmarohl said...

    I think the Pelican’s won that deal, and it was not particularly close. They created about 17 or 18 million more in cap space, plus upgraded to Jval from Adams. Cap space will allow them to match offer for Lonzo if they want to, or possibly go out and get a free agent like Lowry. I really don’t see much benefit for Memphis.

    Also, Bledsoe’s deal is guaranteed for next season, but only $3.9 million of the last year is guaranteed.

    J Val is an upgrade? J Val is just in the way…they are still a bad team now they are a bad team with a 7’1 270 pound center clogging the lane for Zion and with less draft capital than they had…far less.

    Adams is actually a better fit for Ja Morant. He is younger a better defender, better passer and more importantly he has zero ego. They have an interesting roster with Tillman, Clarke, Jaren Jackson and even Kyle Anderson able to play small ball five out offensive concepts which really helps Ja more than a boat anchor in the post. J Val was nice to have the handful of games they play against Gobert but he is not in anyones championship plans. If he is one of your best players then your team is just not very good.

  • tmarohl

    @monarch said...

    J Val is an upgrade? J Val is just in the way…they are still a bad team now they are a bad team with a 7’1 270 pound center clogging the lane for Zion and with less draft capital than they had…far less.

    Adams is actually a better fit for Ja Morant. He is younger a better defender, better passer and more importantly he has zero ego. They have an interesting roster with Tillman, Clarke, Jaren Jackson and even Kyle Anderson able to play small ball five out offensive concepts which really helps Ja more than a boat anchor in the post. J Val was nice to have the handful of games they play against Gobert but he is not in anyones championship plans. If he is one of your best players then your team is just not very good.

    This is Pelton’s grades from ESPN

    New Orleans Pelicans: B+

    When I wrote last week about the lessons from the 2021 playoffs teams might try to apply this offseason, I mentioned the Pelicans as prime candidates to attempt to pull off what the Phoenix Suns did this year: going from the lottery to contention overnight. This deal looks like the second step in that plan after New Orleans hired Suns assistant Willie Green as Stan Van Gundy’s replacement at head coach.

    Swapping out the $35-plus million owed to Adams and Bledsoe in 2021-22 for Valanciunas’ $14 million salary would allow New Orleans to create up to nearly $37 million in cap space this summer, more than enough to make a run at a veteran point guard of its own to mirror Phoenix’s addition of Chris Paul. As ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski noted in reporting the trade, that space could be earmarked for Toronto Raptors free agent Kyle Lowry if the Pelicans decide to move on from restricted free agent Lonzo Ball.

    Realistically, New Orleans could probably make a run at Lowry while retaining the rights to restricted free agent Josh Hart. With Hart’s $10.5 million cap hold on the books, the Pelicans could still offer Lowry a starting salary of up to nearly $27 million assuming they waive forward Wenyen Gabriel (whose 2021-22 salary is non-guaranteed) and decline a team option on guard Didi Louzada.

    In that scenario, New Orleans would stand to upgrade at a couple of positions. Even at age 35, Lowry projects as the third-best player potentially available in free agency in terms of 2021-22 value behind Paul and Kawhi Leonard. And Valanciunas should prove a better fit at center next to Zion Williamson than Adams because he provides a modicum of floor spacing (Valanciunas made 21 3-pointers at a 37% clip last season) and is simply a more productive player at this stage of his career.

    It’s unlikely adding Lowry and Valanciunas would actually transform the Pelicans into Western Conference champions. More reasonably, New Orleans can aspire to return to the playoffs after a three-year absence with a chance at winning a series. Then again, I wrote more or less the same thing about the Suns before they dealt for Paul, so you never know.

    If the Pelicans are going to make that kind of jump, it’s going to depend on the development of their guards drafted in the first round the past two years. Given Hart has been more effective in a reserve role, New Orleans is probably looking at promoting either Nickeil Alexander-Walker or Kira Lewis Jr. to the starting lineup. That’s going to demand far more efficiency than we saw from those players last season; one of them taking a leap would substantially increase the team’s ceiling.

    The concern is the alternative cost of clearing cap space. To add a veteran guard, whether it’s Lowry or someone else (Mike Conley of the Utah Jazz would also fit the bill, while other free agents at point guard include Spencer Dinwiddie and Dennis Schroder), the Pelicans would have to move on from Ball, who has a better three-year outlook by my projections than any of them.

    Clearing the salary of Adams and Bledsoe, both acquired last offseason, will also cost New Orleans seven spots in this year’s first round and a protected first-round pick coming in 2022 from the Lakers. Per ESPN’s Andrew Lopez, the Pelicans have added top-10 protection to that pick, meaning they’ll keep it if the Lakers unexpectedly end up picking in the top 10 next summer.

    The good news is New Orleans still has plenty of extra picks coming from the Lakers and Milwaukee Bucks via the trades sending out Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday. Because of LeBron James age — he’ll turn 37 in December — the 2022 pick is less valuable than the one coming to the Pelicans from the Lakers in either 2024 or 2025.

    Swapping down to No. 17 in this year’s draft rather than giving up the No. 10 pick outright also works in New Orleans’ favor. Based on my analysis of pick value, I estimate the difference between the 10th and 17th picks as equivalent to the 30th and final pick of the first round. (In practice, teams usually pay more than that to move up from 17th to 10th.)

    While I would be looking to retain Ball rather than bring in a free agent at guard, the cost to increase cap flexibility and improve at center doesn’t look all that bad when factoring in this year’s swap and the likelihood the 2022 Lakers pick falls in the 20s. If that’s the direction the Pelicans were headed, this trade is a reasonable way to get there.

    Memphis Grizzlies: B

    Exactly how the Grizzlies might use their cap space this summer has been one of the NBA’s most intriguing mysteries. I also mentioned Memphis as a contender for a Phoenix-style consolidation trade, but the Grizzlies’ unexpected success the past two seasons means there’s less pressure on the front office to win now to appease its own top draft pick from 2019 (Ja Morant, taken one spot after New Orleans drafted Zion Williamson) or maintain job security.

    As a result, Memphis will continue building for the long haul while simultaneously contending for the playoffs after advancing from the NBA’s inaugural play-in tournament this spring.

    2021 NBA draft

    The 2021 NBA draft is fast approaching. Which prospects will land at the top and potentially change a team’s fortune?

    • Latest: Mock draft | Top 100
    • Biggest questions for the 2021 draft
    • Pelton’s top 30 prospects based on stats and scouting
    • How to watch, other key draft data
    • Why this year’s class is getting historic buzz
    • Complete 2021 NBA draft order

    Part of the challenge for the Grizzlies in utilizing up to $23 million in cap room was that there’s no obvious place to upgrade. Memphis already went two-deep with solid contributors at every position, meaning only an above-average starter would be a real improvement. Instead, the Grizzlies decided to again utilize that room to add draft capital by taking back the salaries of Adams and Bledsoe.

    Adams should fit better in Memphis than he did in New Orleans. The Grizzlies can start him alongside a floor spacer in Jaren Jackson Jr. while continuing to pair Jackson with a burly center capable of handling more physical defensive assignments. Because of Adams’ superior ability to box out defensively while a teammate grabs the rebound — something Russell Westbrook enjoyed when they played together with the Oklahoma City Thunder — Jackson should be a winner of this trade.

    Bledsoe’s fit is less clear, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Memphis traded him elsewhere for a player who’s less capable of contributing but has no guaranteed salary for 2022-23. Bledsoe is due $18.1 million this season and has $3.9 million guaranteed in 2022-23, the final year of his deal. He can still be a contributor in the right setting, but the Grizzlies already get similar production at a far cheaper rate from younger reserve De’Anthony Melton. A buyout agreement making Bledsoe a free agent wouldn’t shock me either.

    From a logistical standpoint, the Grizzlies will have to make this trade after the 2021-22 league year begins to utilize cap space to take on more salary. That necessitates declining a $13 million team option on Justise Winslow, who struggled to find a role in Memphis last season after returning from a series of injuries. Dealing for Winslow at the 2020 trade deadline was a rare misstep by this Grizzlies front office.

    Looking forward, Memphis might not have wanted to commit to extending Valanciunas’ contract or re-signing him as an unrestricted free agent next summer. As clean as the Grizzlies’ books are now, they’re looking at substantial raises for most of their players as their contracts expire in the next couple of seasons. Paying Adams for 2022-23 shouldn’t be an issue because of Bledsoe’s non-guarantee and the expiration of Tyus Jones contract, while Adams’ deal is up in time for Morant to begin his rookie extension in 2023.

    Given the salary Memphis is taking on, ideally there would have been more draft compensation involved. Still, the Grizzlies give themselves another chance to pick in the top 10, something they hope not to do with their own draft picks going forward. And even a pick from the Lakers in the 20s could be valuable for Memphis based on the quality players the front office has drafted late in the first round (Desmond Bane, Brandon Clarke) and in the second round (Xavier Tillman) in recent seasons.

  • tmarohl

    Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    ·
    1m
    ESPN Sources: The Detroit Pistons have landed on a decision to select Oklahoma State’s Cade Cunningham with the No. 1 pick in tonight’s NBA Draft (ESPN and ABC at 8 PM ET).

  • mbunner23

    Jval clogs the lane for Zion. I don’t like them together.

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2019 Blogger of the Month

    So, dude thinks New Orleans won the trade, because now they can go after Kyle Lowry. Yet, they have no guarantee of getting Lowry.

    Also pretty much admits, without saying it, that Adams will be a better fit in Memphis than J-Val.

    Also about J-Val the guy writes, comparing him to Adams that he “is simply a more productive player at this stage of his career.” Doing this, while also admitting that Adams was a poor fit in New Orleans. Adams just turned 28 after 8 years in the league. Val just turned 29 after 9 years in the league. What’s the implication here? There at the same damn stage of their career!

    Lazy crap. How do these people get these jobs? Memphis lost the deal because they’re not going to have a chance to add a star FA. All they did was move up into a much better draft spot and get a C who fits their team better. NO got a C who might fit their team a little better and an outside chance at signing a 34 year old PG, in attempt to be like the Suns?

  • tmarohl

    I guess I think much more highly of Jval than I do Adams, being able to free up all of that cap space, which allows a potential sign and trade of Lonzo, which will bring assets back, is a phenomenal deal for New Orleans.

  • yisman

    @tmarohl said...

    I guess I think much more highly of Jval than I do Adams, being able to free up all of that cap space, which allows a potential sign and trade of Lonzo, which will bring assets back, is a phenomenal deal for New Orleans.

    I concur. I like JVal better than Adams.

    Also from Twitter:

    JDumasReports
    ·
    4h
    Source: The Sixers hope to trade Ben Simmons tonight. The asking price remains the same. The relationship seems to be over. It’s not a matter of if anymore, but when.

  • yisman

    @tmarohl said...

    Adrian Wojnarowski
    @wojespn
    ·
    1m
    ESPN Sources: The Detroit Pistons have landed on a decision to select Oklahoma State’s Cade Cunningham with the No. 1 pick in tonight’s NBA Draft (ESPN and ABC at 8 PM ET).

    Books no longer taking bets on top 4.

    It seems locked in on

    1)Cunningham
    2)Green
    3)Mobley
    4)Suggs

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