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  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

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  • tmarohl

    @Dirt_Lavert said...

    Wait what, really? IDK. WHo’s your SF list? And or top player list?! Interesting take.

    Kawhi is better than Lebron. Durant is better than Lebron. Throw in some other guys like Harden, Westbrook, KAT, AD, etc and you have an interesting dilemna.

    Try looking at it like a GM would look at it. If you had a chance to get Lebron, would you take him over Kawhi? Would you take him over Durant? Would you take him over countless other young players who are superstars, or superstars in the making, knowing Lebron is a defensive sieve, and his best days are behind him?

    I had this debate the other day with a huge Lebron fan. If you could have 22 year old Giannis for the next 8 years, or KAT, or AD, or you could have Lebron for the next three years. Who would you take?

  • gillio

    @Dirt_Lavert said...

    I am probably in the minority, but I don’t even think Lebron is one of the top five players in the league now. He is not even the best at his position.

    I know best player and all that is mostly opinion but you can’t seriously tell me Lebron James is not a top 5 player in the NBA right now.. dude is gonna go down as a top 3 player of all time without a doubt. And there is no SF better than Lebron in the league right now..

  • tmarohl

    @Cooper08 said...

    Unfortunately, IMO, we never got to see the player who could have compared to MJ, Len Bias. I like you saw all of MJ career, people can watch all the highlights they want but until you watch hundreds of games you will never understand the drive this guy had, the heart and killer instinct like no other player.. for the person who said he had good players on his team, other than Pippen, none were better than any OKC player of today.

    Len Bias was an OK player. He wasn’t a superstar, but had the potential to be one.

  • tmarohl

    @gillio said...

    I know best player and all that is mostly opinion but you can’t seriously tell me Lebron James is not a top 5 player in the NBA right now.. dude is gonna go down as a top 3 player of all time without a doubt. And there is no SF better than Lebron in the league right now..

    Kawhi and Durant are both better.

  • tonytone1908

    @Cooper08 said...

    Unfortunately, IMO, we never got to see the player who could have compared to MJ, Len Bias. I like you saw all of MJ career, people can watch all the highlights they want but until you watch hundreds of games you will never understand the drive this guy had, the heart and killer instinct like no other player.. for the person who said he had good players on his team, other than Pippen, none were better than any OKC player of today.

    Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Craig Hodges, John Paxson…

    Yeah, none of them were better than OKC’s bench guys. I used to sit in front of those banners every time I went to a Blackhawks game and it still amazes me some of the names on those teams. Luc Longley? Really? He’s got 2 or 3 rings I think. Jordan got by with nothing ever more than a “Big 2”. Many don’t even give Pippen that much respect.

    Lebron has had at least 2 other superstars around him his whole career. Jordan had Pippen and a rotation of 3 pt shooters. If you spotted Jordan and Pippen and paired them with Magic Johnson you might as well just mail it in every year. You think the Warriors record is good? Give Jordan the equivalent of Kyrie and Love (even with both or one of them hurt all the time) and they would just shatter records.

    In the 90’s those guys had a PHYSICAL battle! Now you can barely blow in Lebron’s ear without getting a foul. Give Jordan half the fouls LBJ gets and his career avg goes up another 10 pts.

    Lebron was christened “The King” because Jordan was leaving and they needed a new mascot. They crowned him before he ever even played one game in the NBA. He’s been getting calls and favoritism since day 1 because they needed him to keep the brand going. It has always been in the NBA’s best interest to get Bron as far in the playoffs as they can because of, duh, ratings. Bron is all hype and can never dream to match the ability of Jordan.

  • tonytone1908

    @tmarohl said...

    Kawhi and Durant are both better.

    Agreed. Minus the whining as well.

  • tonytone1908

    So we’ve got under 3.5k guys on FD tomorrow. Now it’s all about stacking the studs with the right 2k guy that gets 15 pts. I like it and I don’t like it. I like that you have to dig deep, or go balanced I guess. Hmmm. What to do? Guess I’ll have to do 2 and go one each way.

  • tmarohl

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Craig Hodges, John Paxson…

    Yeah, none of them were better than OKC’s bench guys. I used to sit in front of those banners every time I went to a Blackhawks game and it still amazes me some of the names on those teams. Luc Longley? Really? He’s got 2 or 3 rings I think. Jordan got by with nothing ever more than a “Big 2”. Many don’t even give Pippen that much respect.

    Lebron has had at least 2 other superstars around him his whole career. Jordan had Pippen and a rotation of 3 pt shooters. If you spotted Jordan and Pippen and paired them with Magic Johnson you might as well just mail it in every year. You think the Warriors record is good? Give Jordan the equivalent of Kyrie and Love (even with both or one of them hurt all the time) and they would just shatter records.

    In the 90’s those guys had a PHYSICAL battle! Now you can barely blow in Lebron’s ear without getting a foul. Give Jordan half the fouls LBJ gets and his career avg goes up another 10 pts.

    Lebron was christened “The King” because Jordan was leaving and they needed a new mascot. They crowned him before he ever even played one game in the NBA. He’s been getting calls and favoritism since day 1 because they needed him to keep the brand going. It has always been in the NBA’s best interest to get Bron as far in the playoffs as they can because of, duh, ratings. Bron is all hype and can never dream to match the ability of Jordan.

    You win the internet for the day. People that think that Lebron is even on the same playing field as MJ don’t have a clue. Jordan was winning championships, 6-0 if I recall, with a roster not much better than what Westbrook is dealing with in OKC. Lebron has had at least two superstars on everyone of his teams that actually won. Plus he has a GM hat and gets to add very solid NBA players on minimum contracts to his team every year. Think Deron Williams, Channing Fry, Kyle Korver, etc, and they will still lose in 5 if they even make it out of the East.

  • Cooper08

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tmarohl said...

    Len Bias was an OK player. He wasn’t a superstar, but had the potential to be one.

    C’mon…bias was just as good as MJ was in college, they had many similarities in playing styles…who knows what bias would have done in the NBA..

  • tmarohl

    I remember going to Milwaukee Bucks/Chicago Bulls games. We had much more overall talent than the Bulls, but we would ultimately always lose, because of his airness.

  • Cooper08

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Toni Kukoc, Craig Hodges, John Paxson…

    Yeah, none of them were better than OKC’s bench guys. I used to sit in front of those banners every time I went to a Blackhawks game and it still amazes me some of the names on those teams. Luc Longley? Really? He’s got 2 or 3 rings I think. Jordan got by with nothing ever more than a “Big 2”. Many don’t even give Pippen that much respect.

    Lebron has had at least 2 other superstars around him his whole career. Jordan had Pippen and a rotation of 3 pt shooters. If you spotted Jordan and Pippen and paired them with Magic Johnson you might as well just mail it in every year. You think the Warriors record is good? Give Jordan the equivalent of Kyrie and Love (even with both or one of them hurt all the time) and they would just shatter records.

    In the 90’s those guys had a PHYSICAL battle! Now you can barely blow in Lebron’s ear without getting a foul. Give Jordan half the fouls LBJ gets and his career avg goes up another 10 pts.

    Lebron was christened “The King” because Jordan was leaving and they needed a new mascot. They crowned him before he ever even played one game in the NBA. He’s been getting calls and favoritism since day 1 because they needed him to keep the brand going. It has always been in the NBA’s best interest to get Bron as far in the playoffs as they can because of, duh, ratings. Bron is all hype and can never dream to match the ability of Jordan.

    MJ had the ability to make those players good and understand there role…LBJ only has the ability to make Channing frye good on occasions, MJ made 3-4 of his role players good every night…

  • tmarohl

    @Cooper08 said...

    C’mon…bias was just as good as MJ was in college, they had many similarities in playing styles…who knows what bias would have done in the NBA..

    The only person in history who was able to keep Jordan contained was Dean Smith.

  • tonytone1908

    @Cooper08 said...

    MJ had the ability to make those players good and understand there role…LBJ only has the ability to make Channing frye good on occasions, MJ made 3-4 of his role players good every night…

    Yessssss! Exactly!

    Honestly I think people underestimate the talent of some of his surrounding cast still. I mean, Craig Hodges won what, 2 or 3 three-point shootout titles? Some of those guys were money but as someone else pointed out it was basically like what RWB has now.

    The difference between the new generation and MJ and why they’ll never compare is because it’s too selfish of a league now. It takes a lot more skill to make 8 other teammates do well as opposed to only trying to make 2 of them any good.

  • tmarohl

    @Cooper08 said...

    C’mon…bias was just as good as MJ was in college, they had many similarities in playing styles…who knows what bias would have done in the NBA..

    The difference is we got to see what Jordan could do in the NBA. Bias in college reminded me a lot of James Worthy, but only more athletic. He could have had a great NBA career. You really can’t say what he would have done. My guess is since he died of a cocaine overdose, he probably wouldn’t have done much, because he probably would have have fell into a bad lifestyle where basketball was secondary. I wish we could have seen his potential. There have been countless guys over the years that were the next greatest thing who fizzled out for one reason or another.

  • sunchips666

    wtf is up with these 100k first place 2 game slates??? couldnt they combine mon-tues

  • tmarohl

    @tonytone1908 said...

    Yessssss! Exactly!

    Honestly I think people underestimate the talent of some of his surrounding cast still. I mean, Craig Hodges won what, 2 or 3 three-point shootout titles? Some of those guys were money but as someone else pointed out it was basically like what RWB has now.

    The difference between the new generation and MJ and why they’ll never compare is because it’s too selfish of a league now. It takes a lot more skill to make 8 other teammates do well as opposed to only trying to make 2 of them any good.

    Bill Wennington, Will Purdue, Ed Nealy, Jack Haley, Charles Davis, Dominic Pressley, Sam Vincent, David Wood, Brad Sellers, and their ilk just strike fear in my heart.

  • tmarohl

    @sunchips666 said...

    wtf is up with these 100k first place 2 game slates??? couldnt they combine mon-tues

    I don’t get it either. They also tend to up the entry fees on these two game slates, but have 3 or 4 dollar games with 20K top prizes on larger slates.

  • tonytone1908

    @sunchips666 said...

    wtf is up with these 100k first place 2 game slates??? couldnt they combine mon-tues

    Expecting a tie for 1st place. You could easily have a 50 way tie for 1st. Contrarian is the name of the game.

  • chronoxiong

    Horrible night. Definitely one of the worst I had all season. I had Trevor Ariza, Vonleh and Mirotic……all in the same lineup. That’s all that you need to know how on bad of a night I had. I hate this! I might not want to play too much on nights the Rockets/Thunder play. Two guys who take up too much usage and never knowing if its a blowout or competitive game will eat your bankroll alive.

  • ElSlappo

    The FD Swat fills every day in the early morning but they never increase it.

  • whothis

    Reconstruction FD

    Igt, Bev/ Harden,CJ/ Roberson,Turner/Dray,Portis/ Horford -403 57800

    Pivot to Rondo from Bev, Harkless for Turner 389/58300
    Saturday lu need Lbj, (Kawi blowout not enough min) but yesterday didnt need to pay up for Buckets/Durant Who knew Roberson goes off and Turner pays off. Gl tonight

  • marknelms

    Man, lot of insane revisionist history in this MJ discussion.

    Bulls made it to game 7 of the Eastern Finals without Jordan. Scottie Pippen wasn’t as good as Kyrie Irving. Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant and Toni Kukoc weren’t as good as Domantas Sabonis and Jerami Grant. The East had dominant teams like Philly (!!!) Jordan had to get through during his prime. LeBron’s not a top 5 player in the NBA right now, and doesn’t make his teammates (Drew Gooden, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson) better.

    The things you learn from the RG forum!

  • RobertoTomba

    Greatest collapses in history:

    Rome vs Barbarians, 432 AD
    France vs Germany, 1940 AD
    OKC vs Houston, 2017 AD

    Maybe I’m overreacting?

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