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  • Craigo

    Hey guys,

    I’m from the UK so only just stumbled upon DFS recently. Can’t believe this hasn’t taken off over here yet.

    Just wanted some advice… Are cash games the best way to build your bankroll? And are GPP’s even really worth entering? Feel like tournaments are too much of a lottery. In today’s big GPP, from my 8 players I had 5 goals and 3 assists, yet still finished over 1000 places from cashing. Though the same lineup won 100% of my H2H’s.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    Many will disagree with me, but I don’t think there is a “best” way to build a bankroll. In my experience cash games have a much higher percentage of entrants that are what I would consider skilled/knowledgeable players. There is simply too much information available to the average player to find a significant edge anymore (again, just my opinion).

    My advice would be to find the games that suit you best based on your own personality. If you think cash games are worth it, and you can grind over the long haul then it might be worth it. At the end of the day, you can’t lie to yourself though, so just be honest in what you hope to accomplish in both the short and long term.

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Craigo said...

    Hey guys,

    I’m from the UK so only just stumbled upon DFS recently. Can’t believe this hasn’t taken off over here yet.

    Just wanted some advice… Are cash games the best way to build your bankroll? And are GPP’s even really worth entering? Feel like tournaments are too much of a lottery. In today’s big GPP, from my 8 players I had 5 goals and 3 assists, yet still finished over 1000 places from cashing. Though the same lineup won 100% of my H2H’s.

    Hey Craig, welcome!!

    Firstly, I’m no pro (there are some here lol), so take everything I say with a grain, and it’s best to find your best learning process.

    For building your bankroll, cash is absolutely the way to go. My first suggestion would be to enter as many low end count (20 people max) 50/50s you can until you get comfortable with taking on 1v1s and bigger multi entry 50/50s. The idea with 50/50’s is you only have to beat out half the group, obviously made easier with a 10 or 20 person 50/50 compared to a 5000 person 50/50 and trying to beat out 2500 people, instead of 5, or 10 people.
    1v1s, aka h2h, are really great when you play the lower price end. They are absolutely the most fun way to build your bankroll, but it is really hard without following the best in the biz, that’s why sites like this rule.

    GPP’s should only be used when you have a big bankroll, a lot of this has to do with generally the only time you profit properly is by entering 10+ cards for proper exposure, but it isn’t so bad in soccer compared to NFL or NHL. In order to win, or even do really well, you have to kind of make mistakes sometimes, or get lucky. Many times, what you are supposed to do in DFS to be successfull and what you should do in GPP to win don’t always have ends meet. So in order to win GPP, you kind of have to take shots to win. Many times, you will win nothing in GPP, that’s not the point. If you are winning every week at GPP, either you are really amazing at DFS and have an intricate understanding that practically nobody has, or you are really bad and getting lucky over and over lolol. I suggest readinging Jmtowin’s NFL article “the week one gets lucky” or whatever, really gives you a great idea of what it takes to be successfull (ie: process, not luck. Luck ALWAYS loses eventually).

    The point of GPP is one win can completely offset anything you lost investing over the last few weeks. Cash is used to constantly keep the build going.

    Also, things fluctuate from week to week. Some weeks you will only want to play cash, because it seems like the two big expensive favs are gonna dominate (Barca+Bayern 11 goals UCL last week, or Arsenal+ManCIty 8 goals today), and making a card can be really complicated, because it is generally the same card as everyone else’s (no/hard profit). Other weeks, you’ll want to get deep into GPP’s , because there are different favourites who are affordable, and building GPP cards are much easier, and the ownership % are a little lighter giving you more room to win real money.

    If you have any questions, feel free to message me, always take the time to answer.
    Or, I’m quite convinced there are WAY smarter individuals than me who will gladly help too!

    EDIT

    https://rotogrinders.com/articles/week-2-in-which-he-s-just-so-lucky-1434184

    there is the article. An NFL article, but so much about DFS life.

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    @tgowen said...

    My advice would be to find the games that suit you best based on your own personality.

    This is also a great point.
    Growing your bankroll comes after learning and understanding the game formats. Some people are great GPP players, some are purely cash. You are going to lose some learning before you start winning, so the easiest to start may be a few, low priced GPP’s just so you get the idea of how it all plays out! The frees on DK are great because it helps you learn about correlation and ownership %‘s that cash can’t teach you, all without the entry fee.

  • TinkyTyler

    • 82

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #54

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @tgowen said...

    Many will disagree with me, but I don’t think there is a “best” way to build a bankroll. In my experience cash games have a much higher percentage of entrants that are what I would consider skilled/knowledgeable players. There is simply too much information available to the average player to find a significant edge anymore (again, just my opinion).

    My advice would be to find the games that suit you best based on your own personality. If you think cash games are worth it, and you can grind over the long haul then it might be worth it. At the end of the day, you can’t lie to yourself though, so just be honest in what you hope to accomplish in both the short and long term.

    I think this is really good advice. Different strategies work better for cash and GPPs, so it often comes down to how you approach things. The “play cash to build a bankroll” narrative is really misleading, especially cash games are only getting harder. It might work best for you, but it might not. There’s no one-size-fits-all approach.

    For reference, I’m a successful GPP player who’s basically break-even in cash games. So I rarely play them unless it’s a situation where I think I might have an edge (earlier in a season, for example). The point is: The best thing you can do is keep track of your results (the bankroll tracker on this site is a good start), find out where you are successful, and game select and adapt based on that information.

  • Epignosis

    • 717

      RG Overall Ranking

    I’m probably the most successful DFS player here. Seriously. I made enough money to buy Miami, but I pissed it away so fast.

    I like cash games more than tournaments, but I always enter my cash lineup into a tournament. You don’t want to win $3 (that’s 2.31 quid to you) with a lineup that could have won a small fortune (or more) had you played it in a tournament. Occasionally I’ll enter a number of lineups into a tournament.

    A piece of advice you’re not likely to hear because it relates neither to cash or tournament games: Don’t be afraid to learn a new sport for DFS purposes. I started out caring nothing about sports, but was asked to jump into a season-long fantasy football league (that’s gridiron to you) to even up their numbers. I went from a bookworm to a bookworm who yelled at the television set because the quarterback threw the touchdown to THE OTHER GUY. It was a bizarre transition. Still, I promised my frightened wife I would stick to football so that the madness would only last a season.

    I lied.

    I tried a free basketball contest and won $25 (I’m not doing anymore conversions- you’re from the UK and speak with a British accent, so you’re probably smarter than all of us). I went from knowing very little about the NBA to being able to talk circles around my students about stats and such. Then one evening in April, my cash lineup did remarkably well, and I was able to take my family on a lovely vacation this summer. The battery in our car died when we were supposed to come home, but never mind. It was lovely!

    Now I play NFL, NBA, MLB (God help me), MMA, and NASCAR (stevietpfl does a great job with his content, and although I don’t always agree with him, he deserves mention). I even dabbled in “esports,” but I learned my lesson. My point is that I am most profitable with NBA, and I never would have discovered that if I had kept my promise and not spent this past spring sending my wife screaming for the hills whenever I started a sentence with, “I’m feeling pretty good about my lineup tonight, because…”

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Epignosis said...

    I even dabbled in “esports,” but I learned my lesson

    LOL hurd that, love eSports but still failed miserably. You basically have to dedicate your life to only LoL, play it and study the DFS, to actually understand what’s up.
    The meta in real life footy doesn’t change.

  • Craigo

    Thanks for all your input guys!

    I agree with a lot of points you guys have made. I definitely put my first week on this site down as a sharp learning curve! From what I’ve experienced so far, cash games looks most likely where I’ll see consistency. I purposely went H2H with some of the higher ranked players this weekend, (in which I won the majority) mainly so I could analyse their lineups and break down their thought process behind their decisions; and I concluded I’m on the right track, as the majority of my lineup was similar to theirs. But from doing the same with the top GPP lineups I’m usually sat there thinking ‘why would you pick him!?’.

    Maybe there just wasn’t much value today, as nearly everyone had 3-4 players from a pool of 8-9 players.

  • Craigo

    @tgowen said...

    My advice would be to find the games that suit you best based on your own personality.

    Yeah I agree with this. I think I’m better suited to go 1 against 1, as in GPP’s I feel it’s a lot more hit and miss when picking value players with low ownership. So you’ve gotta hope to get lucky once in a while, or play more lineups with a bigger pool of players. Maybe I’m wrong though! Haha

  • Craigo

    @Epignosis said...

    A piece of advice you’re not likely to hear because it relates neither to cash or tournament games: Don’t be afraid to learn a new sport for DFS purposes

    How do you find the time!? I spend a few hours already just picking 1 or 2 lineups! Plus I’m from England, I wouldn’t know where to start! All we know is football (or soccer to you) haha

  • Epignosis

    • 717

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Craigo said...

    How do you find the time!? I spend a few hours already just picking 1 or 2 lineups! Plus I’m from England, I wouldn’t know where to start! All we know is football (or soccer to you) haha

    I neglect my family and personal hygiene.

    It’s an ugly business.

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Craigo said...

    How do you find the time!?

    you don’t, that’s why it called grinding ;)

  • Smcsmack

    The one I’m playing in….

  • webbm1

    @Craigo said...

    How do you find the time!? I spend a few hours already just picking 1 or 2 lineups! Plus I’m from England, I wouldn’t know where to start! All we know is football (or soccer to you) haha

    Welcome to DFS, I’m also from England and only found out about this earlier in the year. Are you playing just the football contests atm or have you tried MLB, NFL etc.

    I’ve always been a huge football fan so thought that would always be an advantage to me on here but I haven’t done particually well at EPL. To win a GPP your probably going to need several lineups and you have to find the value player whose gonna go off. Chadli yesterday, during my research I looked at him but who really thought he was gonna have such a good game? I don’t think West Brom fans thought they would score more than 2 and yet they were 4-0 up.

    If you want to get into playing the other sports start by entering a lineup into the freeroll for each slate and see how you get on.

    I started off playing cash games but wasn’t ever winning consistently enough to increase my bankroll. I’ve started entering a few GPP’s over the last few weeks and I’ve done not too bad. I’d say keep playing Cash games (50/50) etc and think about maybe entering the $1 GPPs and see how you get on.

  • Craigo

    @webbm1 said...

    Welcome to DFS, I’m also from England and only found out about this earlier in the year. Are you playing just the football contests atm or have you tried MLB, NFL etc.

    I’ve always been a huge football fan so thought that would always be an advantage to me on here but I haven’t done particually well at EPL. To win a GPP your probably going to need several lineups and you have to find the value player whose gonna go off. Chadli yesterday, during my research I looked at him but who really thought he was gonna have such a good game? I don’t think West Brom fans thought they would score more than 2 and yet they were 4-0 up.

    If you want to get into playing the other sports start by entering a lineup into the freeroll for each slate and see how you get on.

    I started off playing cash games but wasn’t ever winning consistently enough to increase my bankroll. I’ve started entering a few GPP’s over the last few weeks and I’ve done not too bad. I’d say keep playing Cash games (50/50) etc and think about maybe entering the $1 GPPs and see how you get on.

    Thanks man… Yeah just mainly the football contests atm. I had a little dabble in the NFL (cos the prizes on offer made my eyes light up) but I haven’t a clue what I’m doing so inevitably got nowhere lol. May have to try my hand at a new sport as I’ve gotta wait a whole week for the next EPL games as there’s nothing midweek.

    I also thought as there’s probably a lot of US players that I may have a slight edge over them, as they may rely upon just stats and previous form, not taking into account other factors you’re aware of when it’s your number one sport.

    Yeah I’m definitely sticking to mainly cash games for now, but also entering a single lineup in a cheap GPP in the hope of striking lucky.

  • SelfCharmer

    Overall DFS strategy that a lot of newer players struggle to pick up on:

    Cash games (H2H, Double Ups, 50/50 etc.)
    You are going to want players with a good floor (always score relatively highly, without scoring goals etc.) This is because it is about having less variance. Obviously getting goals is important, but you want your line up to be a lot safer. Also, if there is a player that has been severely under-priced/unexpected starter etc. then they are a must have.

    GPPs.
    This is about winning. Due to the top heavy pay structure, getting 100th out of 2500 means nothing, its all about the top 10 pay spots. This means you want a couple of high floor players (especially the under priced ones again), but the rest of your team needs to have huge upside (or high ceilings). You need a bit of luck to have your entire LU score highly, but you will not win a GPP without some luck.

    Hope this makes sense

  • StanHalen

    @sirrobert6 said...

    LOL hurd that, love eSports but still failed miserably. You basically have to dedicate your life to only LoL, play it and study the DFS, to actually understand what’s up.

    If you are doing eSports and aren’t just picking guys by who has the coolest names, I think you are doing it wrong.

  • Mangone

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    my advice is to play cash games you are a new player build your bankroll through cash games but make sure to put your cash team in a gpp and do a couple gpp entries and make some tournament teams as well.don’t count on tournaments to build your bankroll if you are a new player because you have a lot to learn…..I try to always continue to learn more and grow as a player but look at your cash games to grow your bankroll and allow you to play tournaments and if you bink a tournament than that is awesome!! the goal is to never redeposit best of luck!

  • RandomGuy

    Yeah look this is the sport in my opinion where sharks most dominate… I’ve played a few Premier League contests, I see a thorough dominance from old_T as opposed to everyone else. Obviously someone else wins week in week out, but old_T is always near the top and winning the important/big money contests. I also played some Liga MX contests, which are great to build your bankroll given they are small and not played by many, but then again, there is firm dominance by Juanpi, with Durrfan and pachegol usually coming a close second and third, swiping all the cash. So there you go, soccer has lots of sharks in every form. I think the one they least take advantage of is UCL; it’s a crapshoot, anyone can win UCL on a given night but it’s very difficult. My suggestion is play cash games in Premier League to start.

  • Yeoman

    @SelfCharmer said...

    This is about winning. Due to the top heavy pay structure, getting 100th out of 2500 means nothing, its all about the top 10 pay spots.

    501st out of 2500 means nothing. 100th out of 2500 is typically at least a three- or four-bagger, and if you can string those with some regularity you can turn a pretty good ROI.

    I think the fact that so many players approach GPPs from this angle has opened them up to the opposite strategy—they’re so full of dart throws that it often doesn’t take that high a score to cash.

    As for the OP’s question, I second every comment that said each player has to figure it out for him/herself. Start out with small games, use the bankroll tracker and let your results tell you what you should do.

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    @StanHalen said...

    If you are doing eSports and aren’t just picking guys by who has the coolest names, I think you are doing it wrong

    YOU MEAN THIS ISNT HOW DFS IN GENERAL WORKS?

    I know a few guys in the NHL, when I started DFS I would roster them and lose every night. Until one night my buddy scored against Buffalo at min salary, and I thought I finally had DFS covered.

    The painful truth generally is, as a DFS player, you probably know nothing. It is better to trust in Vegas (if they were losers, they wouldn’t exist) and the pro DFS’ers on Roto. Old_T is legit for sure, I def suggest getting a twitter group started and following everyone you find on here. Hamz’s articles are also really really great.

    Sometimes, reading something from a loser is way more beneficial than trying to follow the leaders. There was someone who wrote for DraftKings last year who was the worst DFS’er I had ever read, and no wonder he didn’t last the season. If I was ever unsure about a player, I’d just read his article and do the opposite.

  • Craigo

    How does Old_T do it so consistently?? What do the top soccer DFS players look for when they’re researching stats? Do they use excel spreadsheets etc, like the other sports, or just the same stats that anyone else can find online?

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    Some people have their own programs, others pay for it through sites like this which offer their own programs. I use the Rotogrinders lineup builder for NFL and NHL, but in footy there aren’t too many builders.
    There are some great sites around, it just takes some time and research to build up a profile of sites and people you trust to know better than you. Just like anything, it takes time. When you get going with your bankroll, you can worry about volume. A lot of rankings are done through volume, so you can’t be too concerned about your rank, it’s for fun, be concerned about your results, and try to avoid all the haters in the world.

  • Tammy409

    Seems to be a lot of complex answers to a simple question. I’d have left it at “Yes”, but I do agree that the sport doesn’t matter nor does one’s knowledge of it beyond the correlations (if any) among teammates. I should have cashed highly on two Soccer Gpps last night in the arcade, as in each slate I was about 10-12 points away from the top score and each case I had two players DNP. It helps to check these things, but some of the smaller sports (perhaps with the most fervent followers) are actually easier for someone who has no clue who anyone is or what they are doing, as that way I have no biases whatsoever… CFL is like this for me, as is Soccer (Hockey I don’t get it… No thanks for me), and to some extent whatever that TOK or Gaming SHit is. Play on DK’s in the quarter and free games and you’ll never go broke, you may win a bunch and you’ll get better with time all the while… Good Luck!~

  • yourichu1990

    eSports is just like other sports, In fact, the scoring system are less complicated in comparing to NFL or Soccer. In general, you need to spend more time to understand how to read stats so you dont actually need to spend time to watch the game.

  • Thrice788

    I am a pretty new DFS player myself. I really only care about football (American) and hockey as entertainment. Baseball got boring to me over the past 10 years or so. DFS has created a new love for baseball for me. I can actually name more than the 10 major players in the sport because of it lol.

    Now mainly that’s because I’ve had some decent luck in MLB DFS. I’ve noticed though that my best luck has come from tournaments. I’ve won 10x my original deposit in 3 weeks. Its been exciting. Bascially its all personal preference. I’ve some some luck on cash games but like someone above said, it’s frustrating if you hit a huge lineup and didn’t have it in a tournament that you could of hit big money in.

    I’ve stuck to 20 or 100 man tourneys as well because I’ve won larger amounts in smaller tourneys. Example I won $50 in a 100 man tourney the other night for getting 1st place and hit middle cash in a big tourney and only won $5

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