NFL FORUM

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  • escot4

    • x2

      $2M Prize Winner

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    So, as we’ve all seen, the major NFL week 1 tournaments are almost unfathomably top-heavy. Here’s a quick breakdown of how much goes to the top 0.1% of finishers…

    DK’s $10 Million Millionaire Maker: 54.9% of prize pool to the top 0.1%.
    That means that 99.9% of the lineups are competing for 45.1% of the prize pool.

    FD’s $5 Million Sunday Million: 46.1% of prize pool to the top 0.1%.
    So 99.9% of lineups compete for 53.9% of the prize pool.

    FD’s $750K Sunday Kickoff: 36.2% of prize pool to the top 0.1%.
    99.9% of lineups are competing for 63.8% of the prize pool, but this is the best I’ve seen so far for NFL.

    Compare that to today’s MLB Grand Slam on FD, which is a very nice, flat payout structure in my opinion: 19.2% of prize pool to the top 0.1%, so the rest of the field still has 80.8% of the prize pool to go for. DK’s Payoff Pitch today is about 27% to the top 0.1%, so still a lot to go around for everyone else.

    I can understand having around half the prize pool to the top 1%, but the top 0.1%???

    Personally, as much as I don’t like the structure, I’m sure I’ll still put my NFL lineups in those tournaments, but I’ll also do significantly less lineups than I otherwise would (probably closer to 25 or 30 instead of 100), and try to find better structured tournaments to put them into as well. If there aren’t any with flat payouts, I may put half the amount of money into play that I originally planned, with almost all in cash games, because only a select few people will profit from GPPs in week 1 if that’s the case, and the numbers just aren’t in your favor even if you have a good ROI normally.

    Now, I love FanDuel and DraftKings and I think they normally do an AMAZING job of providing a great DFS experience, as well as listening and responding to feedback from customers… so I really hope they will put out some better structured tournaments in week 1, and trend more in that direction the rest of the season after that.

    From a bankroll standpoint, week 1 is the most important week to profit in my opinion. It’s crucial to be able to capitalize on early positive returns so you can consistently grow the BR. You dig a big hole for yourself if you lose a large chunk of the bankroll in the first week of the season, but most tournament players will do that in week 1 due to the payout structure should they place most of their money in these top-heavy tournaments. That’s what I see happening at least… thoughts?

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    @Putz said...

    Agree with your comments. Do the other tournaments offer such a top prize? Some would like to see it in the middle where’d you get that $1M top prize and the extra million is spread down to make it more standard.

    It’s week 1. This isn’t the first year we’ve all played DFS. Week 1 is always blown up huge to turn heads and then things settle as the season goes along.

  • jfand30

    I’d rather just see 2 or 3 milly maker tourneys instead of one massive one that pays out 2 million. Is winning a million suddenly not enough to bring in more customers?

  • Putz

    @jfand30 said...

    I’d rather just see 2 or 3 milly maker tourneys instead of one massive one that pays out 2 million. Is winning a million suddenly not enough to bring in more customers?

    Apparently it won’t turn enough heads.

    There is a point in marketing where you are just throwing too much $$ away while not increasing ROI. You would think the agreements with Fox and ESPN would be enough.

  • AndThisGuyPeedOnIt

    @Putz said...

    Apparently it won’t turn enough heads.

    We are currently in the midst of the DFS advertising arms race and the major players also have to worry about big time up and comers like CBS, Yahoo, etc. The average person just getting into DFS only cares about seeing the high first place number and doesn’t care about the things we care about. So, contest selection is critical.

    That said, we will all end up throwing some lottery tickets into these, let’s not kid ourselves. Our lizard brains can’t escape those payoffs.

  • jfand30

    @Putz said...

    Apparently it won’t turn enough heads.

    There is a point in marketing where you are just throwing too much $$ away while not increasing ROI. You would think the agreements with Fox and ESPN would be enough.

    Seems crazy to me.

  • Putz

    @AndThisGuyPeedOnIt said...

    We are currently in the midst of the DFS advertising arms race and the major players also have to worry about big time up and comers like CBS, Yahoo, etc. The average person just getting into DFS only cares about seeing the high first place number and doesn’t care about the things we care about. So, contest selection is critical.

    That said, we will all end up throwing some lottery tickets into these, let’s not kid ourselves. Our lizard brains can’t escape those payoffs.

    I can’t/won’t. CFB would be another story. Could be an early season bankroll killer.

  • mchin1027

    Is Fanduel waiting to release their $1/2/3 multi entry GPPS? or is $5 going to be the lowest buy-in

  • escot4

    • x2

      $2M Prize Winner

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    @mchin1027 said...

    Is Fanduel waiting to release their $1/2/3 multi entry GPPS? or is $5 going to be the lowest buy-in

    They’re just waiting. They’ll have way more tournaments.

  • CUTiger81

    @alsmizzle said...

    There’s a distinct difference between “Promotional/Marketing” tournaments and “Standard” tournaments. As experienced players it’s our job to be able to distinguish between the two types and understand the reasoning behind them. I understand the point of the milly makers and therefore I can make the choice on how I want to attack them.

    There are plenty of tournnaments on the Week 1 NFL slate that will have a more standard payout arc, but I think we the players need to understand and appreciate that some tournaments are there with the mindset of turning the heads of the tens of millions of Fantasy Football players who haven’t tried DFS yet but WILL because they have a chance (no matter how minute) to win seven figures in one week for less than it would cost them to go to the movies with a date.

    Here’s the problem though from my perspective. I would much prefer to play tournaments with a flatter payout structure but if I built a lineup in a $20 DK NFL GPP in week 1 and let’s say I killed it and it won me $30k for first place. While that $30k would be amazing, I would never forgive myself for not having that lineup entered in the $10MM tourney so I feel like I have to have whatever lineups I build entered in that event.

  • tprokopenko

    @CUTiger81 said...

    Here’s the problem though from my perspective. I would much prefer to play tournaments with a flatter payout structure but if I built a lineup in a $20 DK NFL GPP in week 1 and let’s say I killed it and it won me $30k for first place. While that $30k would be amazing, I would never forgive myself for not having that lineup entered in the $10MM tourney so I feel like I have to have whatever lineups I build entered in that event.

    Agreed. That’s the main reason I’m not going play any NFL lineups on DK, at least for week 1. If they smarten up with their payout structures in week 2, I may play, but gonna stick to FD to start.

    Although, I’ll be playing some preseason NFL on DK :)

  • btwice80

    @CUTiger81 said...

    Here’s the problem though from my perspective. I would much prefer to play tournaments with a flatter payout structure but if I built a lineup in a $20 DK NFL GPP in week 1 and let’s say I killed it and it won me $30k for first place. While that $30k would be amazing, I would never forgive myself for not having that lineup entered in the $10MM tourney so I feel like I have to have whatever lineups I build entered in that event.

    The hypothetical contest with the $30k top prize would have a fraction of total entries of the big GPP, so that $30k you won would very likely be more, probably even much more, than you’d have won in the big one. Hell, my biggest win last season was 6th place in the $10 FD GPP, and that $8k prize was a good bit more than that team would have won in their big $25 GPP, at less than half the entry fee.

    Even if the microscopic chance of me putting up a score that would have won the milly maker happens, I honestly will not feel bad whatsoever because I never even remotely considered entering it.

  • CUTiger81

    @btwice80 said...

    The hypothetical contest with the $30k top prize would have a fraction of total entries of the big GPP, so that $30k you won would very likely be more, probably even much more, than you’d have won in the big one. Hell, my biggest win last season was 6th place in the $10 FD GPP, and that $8k prize was a good bit more than that team would have won in their big $25 GPP, at less than half the entry fee.

    Even if the microscopic chance of me putting up a score that would have won the milly maker happens, I honestly will not feel bad whatsoever because I never even remotely considered entering it.

    Right and I understand what you’re saying but I’m just saying in the off chance that you blow away the smaller field and your lineup would have in fact taken down the $10MM tourney. If you can say that you would be fine with it if your lineup hit then that’s what you should do but I know I would kick myself and be really pissed for not having it in the $10MM tourney.

    It’s totally different if you don’t have the bankroll to support that kind of entry fee but if you are playing other GPP’s with a similar entry then IDK how you couldn’t be kicking yourself. Hell even if you didn’t win it but your lineup was good enough for let’s say 3rd place….that’s $500k.

  • btwice80

    @CUTiger81 said...

    It’s totally different if you don’t have the bankroll to support that kind of entry fee but if you are playing other GPP’s with a similar entry then IDK how you couldn’t be kicking yourself. Hell even if you didn’t win it but your lineup was good enough for let’s say 3rd place….that’s $500k.

    I do have the BR for that buy-in level, in fact that’s about what I’ll be putting on each of my GPP entries (all of them in a few of the lower buy-ins). I guess I’m just a bit of a defeatist by nature, because I know I’m not going to finish top 3 out of 500,000+ entries.

  • mranderson

    @Ravens34to31 said...

    Of course, there will be many people who play one week and leave, but this will build the player base, which DK is trying to do. DK has to make money too ya know..

    I would love to know what these numbers are. How many players are truly ‘one and done?’

  • bripc23

    2013 PFBC Finalist

    @alsmizzle said...

    It’s week 1. This isn’t the first year we’ve all played DFS. Week 1 is always blown up huge to turn heads and then things settle as the season goes along.

    I hope so. However I pause because when I made a thread a year ago complaining about the top heavy nature of the first milly maker (before doing so was cool!), I was given a response from DK along the lines of “don’t worry it is a promotional contest and a one-time thing” and then it proved to be very much not a one time thing.

  • donkshow

    These payouts suck, but there are and will be more tournaments in Week 1 with the standard payout structures.

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    Why can one site, just not deliver on this. Absolutely mindboggling.

  • realdeals

    @CUTiger81 said...

    Here’s the problem though from my perspective. I would much prefer to play tournaments with a flatter payout structure but if I built a lineup in a $20 DK NFL GPP in week 1 and let’s say I killed it and it won me $30k for first place. While that $30k would be amazing, I would never forgive myself for not having that lineup entered in the $10MM tourney so I feel like I have to have whatever lineups I build entered in that event.

    Exactly. Only LUs I’m entering is in the 10M.

  • Mattg45

    Yea the payout sucks but there will be more tournaments coming out, probably a week before the pats and steelers game. Come week 2 there will be a lot of dead money from the noobs.

  • banders234

    In my opinion, any GPP contest that doesn’t at least double your entry fee with a minimum payout is bankroll poison. That being said, it’s going to be very difficult to resist entering this contest and convince myself that I might as well be playing the lottery. If you were to max-enter this thing, you basically have to beat 99.9% of participants to recover your investment. I sincerely hope this stuff doesn’t happen to NBA or I may have to get a real job after all

  • TeamTwerk

    I liked the idea that someone said of giving the person that finishes on the bubble a good prize. Having the bubble get 10k or something would make it a lot more fun for the tens of thousands of people that will be in that vicinity towards the end of the last game .

  • johnnyjohnny848

    You guys realize the top 10 of a 572,500 tourney gets nearly 50% of the prizes right?………..welp……
    #bankrollkiller

  • TeamTwerk

    I think the people that get the most screwed in this thing are those that finish in the 400th-1000th range. You make a near perfect lineup that finishes in the top .001% and don’t even get to be made a thousandaire. In any normal sized field with normal sized payouts that same score would net you big 4 or 5 figures easily.

  • johnnyjohnny848

    @TeamTwerk said...

    I think the people that get the most screwed in this thing are those that finish in the 400th-1000th range. You make a near perfect lineup that finishes in the top .001% and don’t even get to be made a thousandaire. In any normal sized field with normal sized payouts that same score would net you big 4 or 5 figures easily.

    Yeah thats just absurd to think about it like that but its true. I cant believe DK wasted week one on a gimmick tourney that will hurt a ton of peoples bankroll. So much for them catering to paying customers that they already had to promote a 2 milly maker that does no more for advertising than a 1 million dollar first place prize. 1 million dollars for 1st place is still a lot of money people helloooo its a million dollars smh.

  • realdeals

    @johnnyjohnny848 said...

    Yeah thats just absurd to think about it like that but its true. I cant believe DK wasted week one on a gimmick tourney that will hurt a ton of peoples bankroll. So much for them catering to paying customers that they already had to promote a 2 milly maker that does no more for advertising than a 1 million dollar first place prize. 1 million dollars for 1st place is still a lot of money people helloooo its a million dollars smh.

    It’s def going to hurt my BR. I can’t help myself, will enter prob 5-10x more volume b/c of the dream of binkimg 2M in week1. I’d do the same if 1M tho. I’ll scale down in week 2. :)
    I agree wish most, 1M for 1st, say 250k for 2nd, and spread the rest out.

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