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  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    Update: This thread was written before the NY Attorney general sent cease and desist in NY letters to Fanduel and DraftKings.

    ———————————————————————

    Subsequent Updates

    Statement from DraftKings

    Statement from FanDuel

    ———————————————————————

    Following post made before NY news broke

    Hey Grinders,

    The battle to keep DFS fully legal is still going on in some states, and obviously New York is an important one. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is considering preventing New Yorkers from playing daily fantasy sports. There are over 500,000 daily fantasy players in the state of New York and AG Schneiderman would like to put in place restrictive measures that prevent your ability to play. It’s time for our community to come together and stand up against these unreasonable efforts.

    If you live in New York, you can help now. Make sure AG Eric Schneiderman hears from you. Tell him you support daily fantasy sports for all in New York state. Daily fantasy sports is fun, entertaining and a game of skill. NY has bigger challenges than fantasy football.

    Please contact the Attorney General Eric Schneiderman via phone, email, etc. at the details below, and visit this URL to petition

    Sign the Online Petition to New York Attorney General

    Other NY Contacts:

    GOV. ANDREW CUOMO
    District: NY
    Phone:(518) 474-8390
    Fax:(518) 474-1513

    ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN
    Email:Eric.Schneiderman@ag.ny.gov

    Twitter Handles

    NY A.G. – at AGSchneiderman
    NY Governor – at NYGovCuomo

  • Gotembaseball

    @dxfiler said...

    @Shadowmoses

    DK/FD could’ve looked into working with States more and I don’t think it’s naive to say that some sort of deal could’ve been reached with key ones years ago if they just took the initiative. Instead they patted themselves on the back for their ‘self-regulation’ and looked the other way. Then an incident happened and all hell broke loose because they simply didn’t see it coming when the writing was clearly on the wall.

    Speaking of said incident, if you had common sense safeguards in place, the ‘scandal’ never would’ve broke to begin with and the intense microscope DFS is suddenly under wouldn’t exist. The attitudes of higher ups in DFS was that there was no edge from their own competing, but they should’ve known better and looked out for their players more. Now they come crawling to the players they never really protected for assistance and I just don’t feel bad for them.

    It’s clear they felt emboldened by corporate relationships and felt overly secure from the UIEGA exception citing Daily Fantasy to be legal, which many legal analysts say was a fragile loophole to begin with.

    Their ‘chance’ to demonstrate it as a game of skill should’ve been jumpstarted a long time ago. Now the wheels are falling off rapidly and I’m not sure they can make it to the finish line. If they don’t, they have no one to blame but themselves.

    100% This. Sites felt safe by a losely worded exemption in a law passed in 2006. The reality is these sites got cocky. They were feeling themselves way to hard and didnt have the foresight to realize big brother smackdown was coming.

  • julieduke33

    @budfox6 said...

    lol post of the year.

    Yeah unfortunately he will be connected to DFS forever just like Bartman was to the Cubs losing even though it wasn’t his fault… Alex Gonzalez error on DP ball was reason Cubs lost, dusty baker sleeping in dugout and leaving Prior in Didn’t help

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @dxfiler said...

    DK/FD could’ve looked into working with States more and I don’t think it’s naive to say that some sort of deal could’ve been reached with key ones years ago if they just took the initiative. Instead they patted themselves on the back for their ‘self-regulation’ and looked the other way. Then an incident happened and all hell broke loose because they simply didn’t see it coming when the writing was clearly on the wall.

    Speaking of said incident, if you had common sense safeguards in place, the ‘scandal’ never would’ve broke to begin with and the intense microscope DFS is suddenly under wouldn’t exist. The attitudes of higher ups in DFS was that there was no edge from their own competing, but they should’ve known better and looked out for their players more. Now they come crawling to the players they never really protected for assistance and I just don’t feel bad for them.

    It’s clear they felt emboldened by corporate relationships and felt overly secure from the UIEGA exception citing Daily Fantasy to be legal, which many legal analysts say was a fragile loophole to begin with.

    Their ‘chance’ to demonstrate it as a game of skill should’ve been jumpstarted a long time ago. Now the wheels are falling off rapidly and I’m not sure they can make it to the finish line. If they don’t, they have no one to blame but themselves.

    I agree with most of what you’ve said, but this is no longer about FD/DK. This is about the DFS industry. For the time being, let’s put aside our differences with the big two. At this point, I’m just hoping we get to continue that fight. For now, we have bigger fish to fry.

  • BobGrinder

    @sack said...

    If I want to put $2 in and buy a Powerball ticket I do it. Never does it cross my mind that someone else purchased 10,000 tickets and so I’m at a disadvantage against that person because what does that matter. There is only one winner.

    The difference is the Powerball IS a lottery. DFS is not supposed to be a lottery, but that’s how it’s being played by some.

  • cctravis

    @Gotembaseball said...

    Your short sightedness is one of the main reasons we are in this spot. This has nothing to do with bad or good players. How can you not see that? Do you really think this whole thing would be solved if everyone was profitable? Jesus man. Wake up.

    Did you even read what I wrote? Never once did I say anything about everyone being profitable fixing anything. I think the main reason we are in this spot is people like you and politicians who make snap judgements without even understanding what they are seeing or in your case reading.

  • n1ck111

    @BobGrinder said...

    Do I really need to make conclusions for you?

    No if your numbers are correct then I would have lost my wager :)

  • cctravis

    @julieduke33 said...

    I really do hate all the I didn’t win so it must be fixed whining and crying that goes on here though..way too much of it..yes things should be changed but I still enjoy it and win a little extra cash with the set up now…better than banned..I am a single or double bullet gpp player so getting rid of mass entry and scripting would help me but I don’t start a forum and cry when one of the mass entry guy wins a gpp..he also risked a lot more to win it…

    I wish everyone was as grounded in logic as you. Smartest post in this thread.

  • Putz

    @BobGrinder said...

    Ok…but then you spend how much time a day posting here on RG? I’m not questing what you do Putz but really, who are you trying to kid with that?

    I voice my concerns on here because this is a forum for that. I would rather post here and email the sites to fix the issues that caused these problems which I have. They had the power to change, but they chose to sit on their hands, not me, not Whits, not others. Just remember that.

  • hpharri1994

    @sack said...

    If I want to put $2 in and buy a Powerball ticket I do it. Never does it cross my mind that someone else purchased 10,000 tickets and so I’m at a disadvantage against that person because what does that matter. There is only one winner.

    There are a lot of things wrong with this statement. First of all there is more than one winner in DFS. Only one person can get first, barring a tie, but more than just first place gets paid. Second of all, there is no comparison between the lottery and DFS. You seem to be implying that there is zero skill involved in DFS. Is that what you were going for?

  • julieduke33

    Well like gotembaseball said their is way to much money involved by big time corporations and individuals in this industry…let alone the. 4 major sports for it to be dead forever.. Way to much money to be made by all interested parties including the government..it may go away for a while but will be back, unfortunately with the rake at 18-24% like the horse track..

  • n1ck111

    Does anyone here feel like they need the protection of the AG in this matter? If you are blaming the sites for getting in this mess then I would assume you agree that action needed to be taken.

    I’m just surprised that people are willing to let their hobby (and freedom) get taken away from them because they don’t agree with the business practices of two companies. There are plenty of other ways to go about this than to have the government step in. Plenty of ways to bring about transparency and change. You vote every time you spend a dollar at that site. If you don’t like their policies there are competitors.

  • julieduke33

    @hpharri1994 said...

    There are a lot of things wrong with this statement. First of all there is more than one winner in DFS. Only one person can get first, barring a tie, but more than just first place gets paid. Second of all, there is no comparison between the lottery and DFS. You seem to be implying that there is zero skill involved in DFS. Is that what you were going for?

    Technically more than 1st wins in lottery too at least in Illinois…on a 6 ball lotto you win if you get 4 or 5 balls correct, just a lot less cash, so actually similar to DFS in that regard and only that regard I might add…playing the lottery is probably the worst gaming odds of all..

  • Putz

    @kgeorge said...

    Living under a totalitarian government is not a real issue?

    DFS in the state of NY is the issue of this thread. Let’s keep it on topic.

  • hpharri1994

    @julieduke33 said...

    Technically more than 1st wins in lottery too at least in Illinois…on a 6 ball lotto you win if you get 4 or 5 balls correct, just a lot less cash, so actually similar to DFS in that regard and only that regard I might add…playing the lottery is probably the worst gaming odds of all..

    I’m not sure why anyone is talking about the lottery in the first place. Comparing DFS and the lottery is not beneficial in any way.

  • julieduke33

    @n1ck111 said...

    Does anyone here feel like they need the protection of the AG in this matter? If you are blaming the sites for getting in this mess then I would assume you agree that action needed to be taken.

    I’m just surprised that people are willing to let their hobby (and freedom) get taken away from them because they don’t agree with the business practices of two companies. There are plenty of other ways to go about this than to have the government step in. Plenty of ways to bring about transparency and change. You vote every time you spend a dollar at that site. If you don’t like their policies there are competitors.

    No I don’t need his protection from DFS what I do need his protection for is all those damn video poker/slot machines that are in every strip mall/bar/family restaurant, convenient store within walking distance from my house…oh wait the fleecing of those people is ok on his watch…

  • julieduke33

    @hpharri1994 said...

    I’m not sure why anyone is talking about the lottery in the first place. Comparing DFS and the lottery is not beneficial in any way.

    True sorry for adding to problem

  • Monix111

    @cctravis said...

    DFS is a game of skill. If you don’t have the skill to profit don’t play or work hard to get better but for the sake of the industry and everyone else who works hard to to improve every day stop throwing gas on a fire being built by the uniformed and uneducated.

    Daily fantasy takes about as much skill as betting on horses or the games themselves. It’s gambling. Anyone convincing themselves otherwise is delusional. You enjoy a form of gambling. That’s great. But don’t try to fool anyone into thinking it’s not. Some people are better at betting on horses. No different than what goes on here.

  • Putz

    @julieduke33 said...

    Name me one company that doesn’t want to grow rapidly and make a ton of money…you can’t can you? The whole point of starting a company is to grow it and make a ton of money…what company’s motto is “I want to have very little growth and lose money year in and year out”..it’s easy to have nothing at stake and say these companies should not have grown as fast and got greedy…most of you if not all would have done same thing if it was your company..

    You are forgetting the type of growth and the issues that festered while some sites sat on their hands. Just think if DraftStreet was still around, their controls would have been the only thing to sustain and/or grow the industry.Matchup blocker/limited gpp entries, etc.

  • n1ck111

    Also if anyone feels they entered into an agreement with one of these sites and it was not honored correctly feel free to bring it up with them. The individual has the power to use the court systems. I don’t think we need the AG to do what they think is in the best interest of everyone.

  • hpharri1994

    @julieduke33 said...

    True sorry for adding to problem

    Wasn’t directed at you, haha. I’m just seeing a ton of people on twitter saying that the lottery is allowed so DFS should be too. I’m in favor of keeping as much distance as possible between the two.

  • hpharri1994

    @Monix111 said...

    Daily fantasy takes about as much skill as betting on horses or the games themselves. It’s gambling. Anyone convincing themselves otherwise is delusional. You enjoy a form of gambling. That’s great. But don’t try to fool anyone into thinking it’s not. Some people are better at betting on horses. No different than what goes on here.

    Of course it is gambling. It is still a game of skill though. That’s really all that matters. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. The Supreme Court ruled that fantasy sports are a game of skill, not a game of chance. People get caught up on the word gambling for some reason.

  • Monix111

    @Gotembaseball said...

    ABSURD!

    It’s absurd beyond belief that these corporations felt safe with a losely worded exemption in a law passed in 2006.

    I really find it unfathomable that more time, money and energy wasn’t spent protecting the interests of the parties involved. You can not have a Million dollar let alone billion dollar anything in this country with out some serious ground muscle.

    Rappers pay gang members for protection. Gangs pay police for protection. Corporations pay politicians for protection. It’s common in all areas of life. Why is it that these sites have failed to see they needed protection.

    I agree 100 percent. Especially when so many of the successful DFSers came from the online poker industry. Obviously these 1 percenters are great at spreadsheets but are very low on common sense.

  • julieduke33

    @Monix111 said...

    Daily fantasy takes about as much skill as betting on horses or the games themselves. It’s gambling. Anyone convincing themselves otherwise is delusional. You enjoy a form of gambling. That’s great. But don’t try to fool anyone into thinking it’s not. Some people are better at betting on horses. No different than what goes on here.

    Betting on horses skill, DFS skill, betting sports 50/50 proposition that’s why their is a spread or money line to make it 50/50… A monkey could bet the patriots -10 against the Bears and obviously said monkey has zero knowledge about football he has about a 50% chance of winning…same monkey same zero knowledge of football puts together a FD lineup, just randomly inputting players (cuz that’s how a monkey would do it) has zero odds of winning

  • julieduke33

    @Putz said...

    You are forgetting the type of growth and the issues that festered while some sites sat on their hands. Just think if DraftStreet was still around, their controls would have been the only thing to sustain and/or grow the industry.Matchup blocker/limited gpp entries, etc.

    Oh I agree they didn’t handle issues right just unfortunately when it comes to most businesses the bottom line comes 1st..capitalism at its finest and worst at the same time…

  • shadowmoses

    @dxfiler said...

    @Shadowmoses

    DK/FD could’ve looked into working with States more and I don’t think it’s naive to say that some sort of deal could’ve been reached with key ones years ago if they just took the initiative. Instead they patted themselves on the back for their ‘self-regulation’ and looked the other way. Then an incident happened and all hell broke loose because they simply didn’t see it coming when the writing was clearly on the wall.

    Speaking of said incident, if you had common sense safeguards in place, the ‘scandal’ never would’ve broke to begin with. The attitudes of higher ups in DFS was that there was no edge from their own competing, but they should’ve known better and looked out for their players more. Now they come crawling to the players they never really protected for assistance and I just don’t feel bad for them.

    It’s clear they felt emboldened by corporate relationships and felt overly secure from the UIEGA exception citing Daily Fantasy to be legal, which many legal analysts say was a fragile loophole to begin with.

    Their ‘chance’ to demonstrate it as a game of skill should’ve been jumpstarted a long time ago. Now the wheels are falling off rapidly and I’m not sure they can make it to the finish line. If they don’t, they have no one to blame but themselves.

    You’re making the assumption that the states would have been willing to make some sort of deal with them in the first place. While it’s certainly possible they would have been, what motivation would there be to do so when they were the ones holding all the cards? From their point of view, it was either cut a less lucrative deal with the sites now or shut them down at some point in the future and set your own terms. I also think It’s difficult to cut off your own leg in the present to save your body in the future if you don’t know for certain what events will transpire down the road. You may have an idea of what could happen, but to strike what likely would have been an unfavorable deal is easier said than done, especially considering where the game was at the time and where it was going. IMO, few people in that position would have had the foresight AND the guts to let those $$$ go. It’s an entirely different ballgame when you are the one making those decisions and the one with so much at stake.

    You have to look on the flip side too. Many of the folks involved in running these sites are avid DFS players. Is it fair not to let them play on other sites, provided there are measures in place to ensure they are not misusing information? In one sense yes, in one sense so. But you’re right, this particular scandal could have been avoided with different controls in place. That doesn’t mean another scandal or big story wasn’t going to come out of the woodwork at some point. Let’s say the state had cut a purely financial deal with DK, and a scandal proceeded to breaks loose. What then? Do you think the state would simply say “Well, we already cut a deal with them, so I guess we’ll just stay out of this.” Not likely. For them to do so would have meant the deal in place included significant regulation and oversight, and while I think that is necessary in the long run, I don’t entirely blame them for being resistant to that initially. Who in their right mind would want that unless it was the only available course of action?

    You’re absolutely right on the last point though. That loophole leaves too much room for interpretation for anyone to feel they could comfortably defend such a position. I’m saying all of this not in defense of these companies, because they have been slow to react and failed to address a lot of the core issues plaguing the game. What I am saying is that to believe they are the ones solely responsible for this mess is silly and wrong. They were major players in it and sped up its outcome, but that’s as far as the blame should go. And again, it’s different for us as outside observers than the people who are running a company and have to answer to partners, a board, employees, and interested parties. We all pretend to understand the politics of how these companies operate, and the truth is we do not. It’s just the nature of the game (pun intended); you can’t ignore the political element in all of this, even if they could have and should have taken steps to avoid this much earlier.

    Anyway, we’ll have an opportunity to see just how well they can defend their position soon enough. I don’t think they’ll be successful in doing so, but maybe we’ll be presently surprised.

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