INDUSTRY FORUM

  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    Update: This thread was written before the NY Attorney general sent cease and desist in NY letters to Fanduel and DraftKings.

    ———————————————————————

    Subsequent Updates

    Statement from DraftKings

    Statement from FanDuel

    ———————————————————————

    Following post made before NY news broke

    Hey Grinders,

    The battle to keep DFS fully legal is still going on in some states, and obviously New York is an important one. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is considering preventing New Yorkers from playing daily fantasy sports. There are over 500,000 daily fantasy players in the state of New York and AG Schneiderman would like to put in place restrictive measures that prevent your ability to play. It’s time for our community to come together and stand up against these unreasonable efforts.

    If you live in New York, you can help now. Make sure AG Eric Schneiderman hears from you. Tell him you support daily fantasy sports for all in New York state. Daily fantasy sports is fun, entertaining and a game of skill. NY has bigger challenges than fantasy football.

    Please contact the Attorney General Eric Schneiderman via phone, email, etc. at the details below, and visit this URL to petition

    Sign the Online Petition to New York Attorney General

    Other NY Contacts:

    GOV. ANDREW CUOMO
    District: NY
    Phone:(518) 474-8390
    Fax:(518) 474-1513

    ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN
    Email:Eric.Schneiderman@ag.ny.gov

    Twitter Handles

    NY A.G. – at AGSchneiderman
    NY Governor – at NYGovCuomo

  • mchin1027

    This reminds me of when DiBlasio tried to “regulate” Uber, to benefit the NYC Taxis, who have him in their pocket.

    The backlash was pretty swift and severe – a lot of New Yorkers love Uber. The plan was ultimately scrapped.

    FD/DK claim to have 500k+ players in New York. How many New Yorkers think DFS is an issue and agree with Schneiderman? Nowhere near 500k I would imagine.

    Similar to the Uber decision, this decision is not going to be received well. The legal aspects are obviously very different, but let’s hope the outcome is the same.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ubers-bare-knuckle-battle-against-the-taxi-industry/2015/07/27/e0e7be98-3483-11e5-8e66-07b4603ec92a_story.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/nyregion/de-blasio-administration-dropping-plan-for-uber-cap-for-now.html

  • QQSTUKIE

    @wideopen23 said...

    Both sites said they are operating as normal.

    Even after the payment processor told them to shut it down?

  • qutgnt25

    Have you followed this guy on twitter. He is now reposting some of the troll treats he is getting spinning it to say the fanduel fanatics are over the top and fanduel should put a stop to it. This guy is obviously an attention whore. Its the problem with most politicians. They get in cause they are in the pockets of the big casinos. No one ever heard of him and he gets voted in based on party affiliation and media buy of the special interests. Now he is trying to make a name for himself and he will see like kate murray saw on long Island that going against a fanatic base with a decision that reeks of special interests will cost him future political consideration. The fact he retweets a troll tweet shows me this guy is not competent for the important job of AG. I truly shake my head as you read up on this guy how he was elected.

  • troveur

    @fanturds said...

    it comes down to the ‘material degree’ of which chance is involved in the outcome from my reading of the document.

    Here’s the thing—if you put dfs up against true games of chance like the lottery and slot machines where there are no pros and anyone can win then it is not even a question. Consider taking 100 people off the street that have no knowledge or “skill” at dfs and match them up with 100 highly skilled pros in H2H’s in NBA on a 10 game night—-the results would be clear it’s a game of skill and there is no material degree of chance involved. A persuasive argument can definitely be made in court if they go that route.

  • julieduke33

    @qutgnt25 said...

    Have you followed this guy on twitter. He is now reposting some of the troll treats he is getting spinning it to say the fanduel fanatics are over the top and fanduel should put a stop to it. This guy is obviously an attention whore. Its the problem with most politicians. They get in cause they are in the pockets of the big casinos. No one ever heard of him and he gets voted in based on party affiliation and media buy of the special interests. Now he is trying to make a name for himself and he will see like kate murray saw on long Island that going against a fanatic base with a decision that reeks of special interests will cost him future political consideration. The fact he retweets a troll tweet shows me this guy is not competent for the important job of AG. I truly shake my head as you read up on this guy how he was elected.

    Yeah I don’t think he thought this was going to get this much negative reaction…fanduel,is supposed to police every individual who supports DFS??? Haha NY AG needs to FD to help him not get negative tweets??? not on my watch boy can’t protect himself

  • julieduke33

    @troveur said...

    Here’s the thing—if you put dfs up against true games of chance like the lottery and slot machines where there are no pros and anyone can win then it is not even a question. Consider taking 100 people off the street that have no knowledge or “skill” at dfs and match them up with 100 highly skilled pros in H2H’s in NBA on a 10 game night—-the results would be clear it’s a game of skill and there is no material degree of chance involved. A persuasive argument can definitely be made in court if they go that route.

    That’s how a New York City resident fought to get pinball machines legal in the city in mid 1970’s , played the game in front of councilman to show their was skil..yes pinball,was illegal in NYC from the 30’s til 70’s..I saw this on travel channels mysteries of the museum show…it’s absolutely true and mind blowing that pinball was illegal in NYC in the 1970’s

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    I’d imagine some could scoff at, and say an avid player beating someone with little experience doesn’t necessarily prove it to be “skill”,

    If you really wanted to prove it wasn’t chance – You could take a sampling of players from this site. You can look at the past month’s results (Roi, winning%, etc.) and group them (Pro, break even, recreational, losing player, whatever). If they were to play in the same games for a week, I would just about guarantee someone could accurately predict their expected results before hand. There will always be a few exceptions, especially with a small-sample-size, but I’d just about guarantee you would see the overwhelming majority of those players falling into the same groupings/rankings when you looked at the results at the end of the week.

    Looking at it in that manner may be a bit of overkill, or needlessly complicated, but it’s a concept most of us are aware of (it’s’ why we come here trying to improve and step up from whatever group we’re in) and I don’t think an outsider understands. If someone bothered to track results in this manner, I don’t know how they could call it a game of luck, as someone like Tim Cowlishaw did on ATH yesterday, saying there was no skill involved.

  • bbqnut

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Even after the payment processor told them to shut it down?

    You are bringing up a point, that I haven’t seen many talk about. Imo, the biggest threat to dfs right now is the possibility that their payment processors may decide to no longer do business with fantasy sports sites until the legal situation is clarified.

  • julieduke33

    @bbqnut said...

    You are bringing up a point, that I haven’t seen many talk about. Imo, the biggest threat to dfs right now is the possibility that their payment processors may decide to no longer do business with fantasy sports sites until the legal situation is clarified.

    But these companies started up as legal companies and are currently legal according to federal government as thin as that legality may be, they are still currently legal…until a decision comes down thru the courts I can’t see every payment processor dropping out..a rise in DK and FDs transaction feeS will more than likely happen

  • Dmurphy104

    • Blogger of the Month

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2015/11/12/why-has-the-n-y-attorney-general-targeted-daily-fantasy-sports/

    good article.

  • troveur

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    I’d imagine some could scoff at, and say an avid player beating someone with little experience doesn’t necessarily prove it to be “skill”

    Have to disagree…you put a person like me that has never touched a slot machine in my life against a blue haired 70 year old that lives in a casino and is a slot “expert” and we should have similar losing results after 100 days. I could win more than my opponent or I could win less but it is all up to chance.

    In DFS, however, it is most definitely the skill and knowledge and preparation that separates the good players that profit every single seasonal sport they play in from the less skilled/knowledgeable/prepared players.

  • QQSTUKIE

    @julieduke33 said...

    But these companies started up as legal companies and are currently legal according to federal government as thin as that legality may be, they are still currently legal…until a decision comes down thru the courts I can’t see every payment processor dropping out..a rise in DK and FDs transaction feeS will more than likely happen

    Vantiv the largest payment processor has told these companies to STOP taking action from anyone based in NY. Matters not what they started as, the water is HOT.

  • wideopen23

    @Dmurphy104 said...

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/2015/11/12/why-has-the-n-y-attorney-general-targeted-daily-fantasy-sports/

    good article.

    I’m very happy I started taking some of my action to Fantasyhub. Hopefully, the AG doesn’t target them next as retaliation. They are known to do that.

  • loured

    • 343

      RG Overall Ranking

    It really bothers me that NY state will waste millions of dollars to try and shut down a revenue building industry that happens to operate right at home. I wrote a letter to the Governor this morning with the help of my wife because my grammar sucks and I didn’t want it to look like it coming from a second grader . But basically the AG is going to dig it heels in and spend millions of tax payer dollars in court to try and get a company that has operated legally for more then 3 years . Why because of the annoying commercials and the one incident . If the state shutdown every business that had some sort of questionable incident especially let’s say Wall Street NY would be a ghost town. I ask the Governor why not regulate it and make some money instead of wasting money trying to outlaw fantasy sports ….and not to be petty but what about all fantasy how does the AG pick and choose. Lastly that statement about fleecing New Yorkers is rediculous the lotto fleeces nyers with that little annoying mr luck guy and the women hitting 21 with the Bologna .. Cmon already

  • loured

    • 343

      RG Overall Ranking

    The AG is sending letters out threating all the payment processors that they could be charged with money laundering,.. This is what This AG is all about he will play dirty pool now to try and get everyone to turn instead of giving the sites a far chance to prove there argunment .. Next I can see him threating the investors saying then can be charged promoting gambling along with a bunch of other bullshit you can find in the Ny penal law

  • BobGrinder

    @julieduke33 said...

    My point is gamblers are going to gamble shutting down DFS to save sports fans from being fleeced and to protect people from the evils of gambling( AG’s own words not mine) when you allow other forms of gambling throughout the state is just plain hypocritical… At least the government makes some money off DFS opposed to zero from illegal sports gambling…. DFS like sports gambling is a form of entertainment millions of Americans enjoy without having a problem…I don’t need the government to save me from the evils of gambling, I like many other Americans gamble with my discretionary income that I can afford to lose if it comes to it…

    As always, follow the money. The government might not be making anything from illegal gambling but those IN government are. There is a reason they want to keep vices illegal, it lines their pockets.

  • julieduke33

    @loured said...

    It really bothers me that NY state will waste millions of dollars to try and shut down a revenue building industry that happens to operate right at home. I wrote a letter to the Governor this morning with the help of my wife because my grammar sucks and I didn’t want it to look like it coming from a second grader . But basically the AG is going to dig it heels in and spend millions of tax payer dollars in court to try and get a company that has operated legally for more then 3 years . Why because of the annoying commercials and the one incident . If the state shutdown every business that had some sort of questionable incident especially let’s say Wall Street NY would be a ghost town. I ask the Governor why not regulate it and make some money instead of wasting money trying to outlaw fantasy sports ….and not to be petty but what about all fantasy how does the AG pick and choose. Lastly that statement about fleecing New Yorkers is rediculous the lotto fleeces nyers with that little annoying mr luck guy and the women hitting 21 with the Bologna .. Cmon already

    If he really cared about fleecing of New Yorkers all gambling would be illegal..as far as corruption horse racing is the most corrupt of all…Google horse race fixing, I wonder how many hits you get..jockeys control that big time at the local tracks… Especially harness racing which is fairly popular in New York area..

  • julieduke33

    @BobGrinder said...

    As always, follow the money. The government might not be making anything from illegal gambling but those IN government are. There is a reason they want to keep vices illegal, it lines their pockets.

    True very true

  • BobGrinder

    @troveur said...

    Have to disagree…you put a person like me that has never touched a slot machine in my life against a blue haired 70 year old that lives in a casino and is a slot “expert” and we should have similar losing results after 100 days. I could win more than my opponent or I could win less but it is all up to chance

    I guarantee you that blue hair knows that the machines on the end of the row are set looser than the ones in the middle. She know that the machines closest to and facing the concourse are even looser still. She knows when machines have been moved around and when money has been moved from one bank of progressives to another and why.

    She will beat you more often than not and “skill” is the reason why.

  • johnnyj580

    @wideopen23 said...

    Both sites said they are operating as normal. If that is true and they don’t back down, it can take months and possibly years before anything is done to stop Fanduel or DK from operating in NY. The only way the AG can stop FD and DK is to seek an injunction which would be very tough for him to get. The burden on the AG would be very high and he’d likely lose.

    It’s a shame a few smaller DFS sites caved because they were never really in trouble.

    I would absolutely NOT bank on this (wordplay irony: I’m employed by a bank. You can’t see, but I’m winking at the reply box). I see one, if not both, of the following scenarios being more likely:
    1) The payment processors stop facilitating DFS sites, which essentially puts them in sleep mode. Having gone through this with poker, its horrible. I don’t see companies, with holdings on domestic soil, going through the possibility of criminal prosecution, just to stay in business while they battle this in court.
    2) The companies seek injunctions, but agree to leave NYS (and other states that follow suit) for the time-being, while this goes through the legal process.

  • JaNelson38

    @bbqnut said...

    You are bringing up a point, that I haven’t seen many talk about. Imo, the biggest threat to dfs right now is the possibility that their payment processors may decide to no longer do business with fantasy sports sites until the legal situation is clarified.

    There are plenty of payment processing companies in this country. My business gets at least one telemarketing call per week asking about credit card processing.

    In the places that DFS is still legal, the DFS sites should have no problem processing payments, especially with the amount of money changing hands between players and the sites.

    On a federal level, the “legal situation” IS clarified…online fantasy sports are legal under the UIGEA. This is a state-by-state issue, as many states have very complicated and confusing language with regards to gambling. Or, as we have seen in states like Nevada and now New York, state governments have a lot of lobby money and support on the line with regards to keeping the wheels greased for the casino gaming that is already established in those states.

  • Trollowitz

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    I’d imagine some could scoff at, and say an avid player beating someone with little experience doesn’t necessarily prove it to be “skill”,

    If you really wanted to prove it wasn’t chance – You could take a sampling of players from this site. You can look at the past month’s results (Roi, winning%, etc.) and group them (Pro, break even, recreational, losing player, whatever). If they were to play in the same games for a week, I would just about guarantee someone could accurately predict their expected results before hand. There will always be a few exceptions, especially with a small-sample-size, but I’d just about guarantee you would see the overwhelming majority of those players falling into the same groupings/rankings when you looked at the results at the end of the week.

    Looking at it in that manner may be a bit of overkill, or needlessly complicated, but it’s a concept most of us are aware of (it’s’ why we come here trying to improve and step up from whatever group we’re in) and I don’t think an outsider understands. If someone bothered to track results in this manner, I don’t know how they could call it a game of luck, as someone like Tim Cowlishaw did on ATH yesterday, saying there was no skill involved.

    The ROI for the degenerate gamblers (aka pros) is pathetic. They are getting hammered. There are entire threads on just this. It is a losing bet to play hundreds of lineups in a top heavy GPP. Simple math should tell you that.

  • jmg416

    @BobGrinder said...

    I guarantee you that blue hair knows that the machines on the end of the row are set looser than the ones in the middle. She know that the machines closest to and facing the concourse are even looser still. She knows when machines have been moved around and when money has been moved from one bank of progressives to another and why.

    She will beat you more often than not and “skill” is the reason why.

    Well none of that is true. But you could certainly beat most at the “casino urban legend” game.

  • Trollowitz

    @jmg416 said...

    I play in a weekly DK football league with a bunch of guys from the Post through a close friend that works there. There is a large contingent of sports/fantasy fanatics working there. They will certainly keep the Post on our side throughout this.

    I just got depressed when i realized that it’s Thursday and I won’t be getting my weekly alert for the league.

    Rupert Murdoch runs the Post. Sheldon Adelson will make sure that eventually the serfs who work for the post come out against DFS. Game, set, match. They are playing you. Hard to feel sorry for Americans when your masters play you constantly and you keep falling for it.

  • tomcat814

    I’ve signed the petition. I’ve also sent letters and placed phone calls to the AG office , Cuomo, my Representative here on LI. Everyone who loves the game should be as active as possible with the fools of NY that somehow got elected. Let them know that they’ll not have your support in any future elections. State your letters that way. Whether you voted for the fools that run NY or not- tell them you will definitely be voting next election and you will definitely not be voting for them. Take the hour or so out of your day to write letters, send e-mails and make phone calls- protesting this travesty.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (NJ/WV/PA/MI), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-888-532-3500 (VA) or call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN).