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  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    Update: This thread was written before the NY Attorney general sent cease and desist in NY letters to Fanduel and DraftKings.

    ———————————————————————

    Subsequent Updates

    Statement from DraftKings

    Statement from FanDuel

    ———————————————————————

    Following post made before NY news broke

    Hey Grinders,

    The battle to keep DFS fully legal is still going on in some states, and obviously New York is an important one. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is considering preventing New Yorkers from playing daily fantasy sports. There are over 500,000 daily fantasy players in the state of New York and AG Schneiderman would like to put in place restrictive measures that prevent your ability to play. It’s time for our community to come together and stand up against these unreasonable efforts.

    If you live in New York, you can help now. Make sure AG Eric Schneiderman hears from you. Tell him you support daily fantasy sports for all in New York state. Daily fantasy sports is fun, entertaining and a game of skill. NY has bigger challenges than fantasy football.

    Please contact the Attorney General Eric Schneiderman via phone, email, etc. at the details below, and visit this URL to petition

    Sign the Online Petition to New York Attorney General

    Other NY Contacts:

    GOV. ANDREW CUOMO
    District: NY
    Phone:(518) 474-8390
    Fax:(518) 474-1513

    ERIC SCHNEIDERMAN
    Email:Eric.Schneiderman@ag.ny.gov

    Twitter Handles

    NY A.G. – at AGSchneiderman
    NY Governor – at NYGovCuomo

  • MickFucci

    @jason18801999 said...

    I was being funny based on the comments that I read, but why couldn’t you get a Pennsylvania PO Box?

    Should be able to. It goes location I thought. Maybe they could individually go I’m their system and block people with New York Address no.matter their location. idk. All I know is DFS is on every sports website and it has deals with NBA NHL and MLB I believe. So much revenue in advertising I can’t believe it will be banned nationwide.

  • Heterodox

    Haven’t seen this linked, seemed conversation-worthy.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-13/under-legal-attack-draftkings-said-to-ask-partners-to-pull-back

    At first glance it was the “oh crap” headline I think we’ve all been fearing, but it’s more interesting for the fact that they seem to have FINALLY gotten the message that their ad campaign has backfired massively, and they would apparently like for people to forget about them for a while

    Just noticed that link is less dramatic than the ones I saw originally. The “oh crap” headline was about their financial obligations to the leagues. They’re asking to defer 10% of their financial commitments to league partners, and they want their logos to show up on TV less often.

  • eleven11

    @thesechipsarecrazy said...

    The sad thing is, number 1 is STILL going on for poker. Getting money off of offshore poker sites is pulling teeth. The trajectory so far seems like it will follow the same unfortunate path poker did. Get ready for a sad 10 years+.

    Just to be clear, the poker sites open to Americans have been very consistent with payouts over the past few years. This includes bovada and america’s cardroom. Carbon poker and Merge have had some issues, but seem better now.
    I have played Bovada for the past 4 years and receive payment within a week everytime. They have various options for payouts: check, bank wire, moneygram, visa direct etc.
    Yes, I know things are not like the golden days, but it’s not completely gone as some suggest.
    Sorry, to derail the conversation, but just wanted to clear that up for anyone considering playing poker or betting sports through these sites.
    It’s good to have options when it comes to spending our money in a so-called free society.
    Obviously, the situation sucks and I hope we see all games of skill get legalized soon.
    We should be free to do with our money what we choose. Let’s continue to fight for our rights and persuade our representatives to do the same. Sadly, It all boils down to money and politics.
    As advocates for games of skill, we are all in the same boat. DFS players and poker players alike.
    We should work together and learn from each other without demonizing the other side.
    Of course a major injustice is occurring when lotteries and scratch offs are legal, while DFS and poker are not. This is not how a free market should operate. It clearly boils down to corrupted politics. Follow the money.

  • drbubba

    @Heterodox said...

    Haven’t seen this linked, seemed conversation-worthy.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-13/under-legal-attack-draftkings-said-to-ask-partners-to-pull-back

    At first glance it was the “oh crap” headline I think we’ve all been fearing, but it’s more interesting for the fact that they seem to have FINALLY gotten the message that their ad campaign has backfired massively, and they would apparently like for people to forget about them for a while

    Just noticed that link is less dramatic than the ones I saw originally. The “oh crap” headline was about their financial obligations to the leagues. They’re asking to defer 10% of their financial commitments to league partners, and they want their logos to show up on TV less often.

    Great law firm, which is good news. Deeply rooted in NY, represent the Yes Network, and also roots in FL. Tired of seeing weak statements from FD and DK, time to let the lawyers do all the talking. I think the 10% deferment on the ads lets them shore up legal expenses for a long fight.

  • mavven77

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. This is actually a “good” situation (don’t crucify me) that is currently going on. DFS isn’t going anywhere, it’s far too lucrative. FD and DK brought this upon themselves, you think they are looking out for our security, or our best interest? They are as greedy as they come. Just by Fanduel reply it’s not hard to tell they are being run by incompetent people.

    I know it’s frustrating and hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I strongly believe that this will eventually be regulated and overseen by competent companies. I’m a firm believer that DFS needs to be regulated to protect the average “Joe’s” like myself. Far too much shady stuff has been going on (DK leak of player % owned etc.) For far too long. I feel regulation will only benefit not hurt DFS. Anyone who for a minute thinks or has thought that DK or FD has had your best interest at heart, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

    Btw I’m born and raised here in NY I do play on fanduel and although I do play I have always in my heart of hearts felt that FD and DK should/could do much more in terms of security (allowing scripts, etc.) For their players. They’ve favored the 1% sharks for far too long and that greed is what’s gotten them in this mess.

  • kevdog

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Has any other sites banned New York players?

    Fantasy Draft also pulled out of NY.

  • kellykip

    Anyone know if this rally will still be going on at 9am? Morning meeting is running way late and I’ll be stuck in midtown for about another hour. Thanks to anyone who can let me know!

  • gencoimports

    @mavven77 said...

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. This is actually a “good” situation (don’t crucify me) that is currently going on. DFS isn’t going anywhere, it’s far too lucrative. FD and DK brought this upon themselves, you think they are looking out for our security, or our best interest? They are as greedy as they come. Just by Fanduel reply it’s not hard to tell they are being run by incompetent people.

    I know it’s frustrating and hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I strongly believe that this will eventually be regulated and overseen by competent companies. I’m a firm believer that DFS needs to be regulated to protect the average “Joe’s” like myself. Far too much shady stuff has been going on (DK leak of player % owned etc.) For far too long. I feel regulation will only benefit not hurt DFS. Anyone who for a minute thinks or has thought that DK or FD has had your best interest at heart, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

    Btw I’m born and raised here in NY I do play on fanduel and although I do play I have always in my heart of hearts felt that FD and DK should/could do much more in terms of security (allowing scripts, etc.) For their players. They’ve favored the 1% sharks for far too long and that greed is what’s gotten them in this mess.

    Look, I agree that there needs to be some sort of regulation but that player % leak you talk about has been so overblown, both by the national media and half the posters on this board. I don’t know the guy, but I strongly believe it was an honest mistake. Nothing shady about it.

  • slashtc

    It doesn’t matter if it was an honest mistake or not. Nobody should have access to that information until all the contests are finished. Ever. If you think the only time that information was out there was the one time they happened to get caught, I don’t know what to tell you. You’re far more trusting than I am I guess.

  • n1ck111

    @mavven77 said...

    I know it’s frustrating and hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I strongly believe that this will eventually be regulated and overseen by competent companies. I’m a firm believer that DFS needs to be regulated to protect the average “Joe’s” like myself. Far too much shady stuff has been going on (DK leak of player % owned etc.) For far too long. I feel regulation will only benefit not hurt DFS. Anyone who for a minute thinks or has thought that DK or FD has had your best interest at heart, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

    Sounds like you are putting a lot of confidence into the government to step in and regulate without corruption and with your best interest in mind. What makes you feel you need them to protect you and that they would really care what you want or need?

    I would argue the companies have a much better reason to have your best interest at heart because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t have any customers and they would be run out of business.

    If people feel like enough security is not in place they could easily tell the sites they are not playing without some sort of change. The sites would then change to meet the demand of the customer. We have so much power to control companies with how we spend our money and yet we hardly take advantage of it.

    If we want change we vote every time we open up our wallet. Don’t like the rake of FanDuel, guess what, one of their competitors is lower and you can choose theirs. Enough people make the choice, FanDuel starts to lose market share and they will change.

    If you want change with a governmental organization, good luck with who happens to be in power at the time and good luck with having your voice heard.

  • mavven77

    @n1ck111 said...

    Sounds like you are putting a lot of confidence into another company and/or the government to step in and regulate without corruption and with your best interest in mind. What makes you feel you need them to protect you and that they would really care what you want or need?

    I would argue the companies have a much better reason to have your best interest at heart because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t have any customers and they would be run out of business.

    If people feel like enough security is not in place they could easily tell the sites they are not playing without some sort of change. The sites would then change to meet the demand of the customer. We have so much power to control companies with how we spend our money and yet we hardly take advantage of it.

    If we want change we vote every time we open up our wallet. Don’t like the rake of FanDuel, guess what, one of their competitors is lower and you can choose theirs. Enough people make the choice, FanDuel starts to lose market share and they will change.

    If you want change with a governmental organization, good luck with who happens to be in power at the time and good luck with having your voice heard.

    I’m on my cell and can’t quote. But you’re third paragraph is laughable. Do you realize the AG of NY over one month ago asked Fanduel and DraftKings to hand over their security protocol of their sites. Do you know as FACT they DID NOT!!! You know why? Because they’ve NEVER had the proper security measures in place. That is 100% accurate.

  • baywood99

    it is crazy to think someone would not want regulation in place. You really should not rely on a billion dollar company to self regulate- have you not seen what happened to all the banks and wall street fat cats who self regulated? Regulation would be the best thing for these companies and would secure the trust of the public. Right now after the lame statements both these companies issued and from what I heard on there conf call I have zero trust in the safeguards they claim to have in place. How do we not know that they are not adjusting lineups as tournaments progress- it is possible for us to be checking every lineup in a 200K entry contest? Do we know these lineups are linked up to actual accounts? Not saying this is what could be going on but this did go on in poker. When you enter a ten person tournament of what you think are average joes did you ever think your actually playing against robots and your the only fool in the pool facing 9 rotogrinder robots? Sure you may win a few but if the odds are 9 out of 10 in there favor well good luck with that. Again not saying this is what goes on but who is to say it is not? Where there is money there is greed especially if nobody is looking. It would not take long for the AG or DOJ to figure out the money trail. If DFS is going to fight this in the courts they better be prepared for there records to be subpoena as the truth will then come out- if they got nothing to hide they have nothing to worry. But if those bank accounts don’t link up they are going to be going away for a pretty long time.

  • n1ck111

    @mavven77 said...

    I’m on my cell and can’t quote. But you’re third paragraph is laughable. Do you realize the AG of NY over one month ago asked Fanduel and DraftKings to hand over their security protocol of their sites. Do you know as FACT they DID NOT!!! You know why? Because they’ve NEVER had the proper security measures in place. That is 100% accurate.

    How is that even relevant to the third paragraph? People are continuing to play without demanding change. If they stopped and/or went to a competitor who has the security measures in place that they want, the companies would change. A lot of people believe it to be fair enough to their liking or the companies would start to fail.

  • n1ck111

    @baywood99 said...

    it is crazy to think someone would not want regulation in place. You really should not rely on a billion dollar company to self regulate- have you not seen what happened to all the banks and wall street fat cats who self regulated? Regulation would be the best thing for these companies and would secure the trust of the public. Right now after the lame statements both these companies issued and from what I heard on there conf call I have zero trust in the safeguards they claim to have in place. How do we not know that they are not adjusting lineups as tournaments progress- it is possible for us to be checking every lineup in a 200K entry contest? Do we know these lineups are linked up to actual accounts? Not saying this is what could be going on but this did go on in poker. When you enter a ten person tournament of what you think are average joes did you ever think your actually playing against robots and your the only fool in the pool facing 9 rotogrinder robots? Sure you may win a few but if the odds are 9 out of 10 in there favor well good luck with that. Again not saying this is what goes on but who is to say it is not? Where there is money there is greed especially if nobody is looking. It would not take long for the AG or DOJ to figure out the money trail. If DFS is going to fight this in the courts they better be prepared for there records to be subpoena as the truth will then come out- if they got nothing to hide they have nothing to worry. But if those bank accounts don’t link up they are going to be going away for a pretty long time.

    I agree that this shady stuff could happen but would argue that with enough transparency the community could police itself. Look at the open-source software world as an example.

  • baywood99

    as for robots meant fd or dk robots, not rotogrinders

  • baywood99

    the community could police 200K entries?

  • n1ck111

    @baywood99 said...

    the community could police 200K entries?

    Yes I would imagine by developing software, not by hand :)

  • n1ck111

    @baywood99 Just so we are clear I 100% agree they should not self-regulate. We should as a community be demanding transparency so what you mention cannot happen.

  • johnnyj580

    @kevdog said...

    Fantasy Draft also pulled out of NY.

    As has DraftDay

  • ron69

    Low entry players could really benefit from high volume players if DFS sites put in some new rules.

    This is for the big money contest

    1.Limit entries to 150.

    2.Put a entry tax in place for high volume players.The taxed money goes back the rest of the field creating more winners at the bottom.

    High entry players are tax once they hit 20times their total entry dollar amountt

    Entries – Tax
    20 – 15%
    30 – 20%
    40 – 25%
    50 – 30%
    60 – 35%
    70 – 40%
    80 – 45%
    90 – 50%
    100 – 55%
    110 – 60%
    120 – 65%
    130 – 70%
    140 – 75%
    150 – 80%

    For Example:

    A player with 50 entries in a $25 tourney wins 200k.They are guaranteed 25k(20x total entry amount).The taxable 175k is taxed at 30%.The player gets 70%($122,500),the contest field gets 30%($52.500)

    The $52,500 creates more winners at the bottom

    A payout of 5x the $25 entry fee would be:$125……420 players who were out of the money win $125

    A payout of 4x= 525 players win $100

    A payout of 2x= 1050 players win $50

  • n1ck111

    And to add the point, if one of the smaller sites decided to offer this transparency I would be quick to start playing there and I would hope the community would do the same. If this happened FanDuel and/or DraftKings would have to change their policies or watch their market share disappear.

  • mavven77

    Baywood 99 you are spot on my man! I really wonder how some can be so trusting. You’re statement about the banks was spot on.

  • baywood99

    agree if a small site offered this I think they would do very well- and I think it is what the governments are seeking

  • ElSlappo

    Regulating / overseeing the industry wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing if it was accomplished by competent, honest, unbiased people who make logical decisions. Unfortunately, none of these adjectives can be used to describe the esteemed members of our current government. I don’t think there are very many situations in the last 50 years where US Government intervention or increased presence has resulted in a positive outcome for the consumer.

    Enjoy it while it lasts, I think we’re in the very short lived Golden Age of DFS right now.

  • johnnyj580

    @mavven77 said...

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax. This is actually a “good” situation (don’t crucify me) that is currently going on. DFS isn’t going anywhere, it’s far too lucrative.

    It could very much go away chief. Please think logically about the DFS ecosystem. You have two big sites that may/may not be operating in the black, and a dozen+ smaller ones operating in the red.

    What happens to the business models of these sites, collectively speaking, if:
    1) They can no longer operate in states which have their largest client base?
    2) They can operate in those states, but now have to funnel a portion of whatever net income they were receiving into lobbying? Well, most (if not all) of the lobbying efforts will be done by the big two? Fine.
    3) The black eye placed on the industry from negative media attention + knowledge that succeeding, from a player perspective, very much involves putting in time & effort – and that the only difference between the average Joe and you or I isn’t that “(we) played and they didn’t”?

    Taking into account the 3 points I’ve made above, almost all sites have relied on some (if not all) of their operating costs being funded by investor-infused cash. How do you pitch venture capatilists in light of the above three points?!?

    We don’t know what is going to happen in the coming days and months, but to think “everything will be fine, just a little regulation will come out of this” is incredibly myopic.

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