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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • Pitch120

    @BmoreClutch said...

    Shame on sites like RG and FSTA for not realizing it was a scam. Dan Back admitted on the podcast that RG was owed money from Fantasy Aces. No one at RG or FSTA thought it would be a good idea to check their publicly available financials? How can you call yourself the “voice of the players” and not even do a little homework on why you haven’t received your money from Fantasy Aces?

    To be clear I’m not blaming either site for what happened at Fantasy Aces. But I do think they should be held accountable for driving players to Fantasy Aces.

    If RG was owed money, why wasn’t that transparent to all of the users on the site?

  • epeng

    @palavar said...

    Though if fraud did indeed occur, then the corporate veil could be pierced, allowing creditors/depositers to make claim of the owners personal assets which might not make everyone whole, but would at least be satisfying.

    This.

    Tom Frisina was a former executive at EA who probably had high cash and equity compensation. If you combine his assets with his two sons and the rest of the executive team, they probably have enough personal finances to cover the money owed to players and partners.

    The key question is proving that fraud did occur, which seems obvious given that they didn’t segregate player and operational funds. I’m not a lawyer though, so just my two cents.

  • mileyvirus

  • KindGuy

    @epeng said...

    Tom Frisina was a former executive at EA who probably had high cash and equity compensation. If you combine his assets with his two sons and the rest of the executive team, they probably have enough personal finances to cover the money owed to players and partners.

    To be honest, I just want their personal assets. Ie. Cars, vacation homes, watches. Or is collateral not involved in this.

    Btw, I’m joking…………. kinda.

  • run199

    Bernie Madoff 2.0

  • BmoreClutch

    @Pitch120 said...

    If RG was owed money, why wasn’t that transparent to all of the users on the site?

    You can’t expect a company to tell people they’re owed money. If RG did they would be out of business. No one would ever do business with a company that airs dirty laundry.

  • crazypaul

    @BmoreClutch said...

    You can’t expect a company to tell people they’re owed money. If RG did they would be out of business. No one would ever do business with a company that airs dirty laundry.

    No, but if they knew something was up, like my previous post about them removing Fantasy Aces advertising from the site in December stated, they could have announced to the users that Fantasy Aces was no longer a sponsor. That might have at least gave users a hint something was up.

  • colinwdrew

    • 301

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2018 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    I am disappointed in Aces and also in RG or any other sites who had large oustanding balances to continue to encourage players to deposit. I think it is reasonable, though not an obligation, for sites that collected revenue advertising fraudulent operations to donate the money to a players fund reimbursing cash stuck on site provided there is no outcome. I am assuming RG still earned a material sum of money above the 200k they are owed.

    As far as Aces, I don’t know if I ever read them explicitly say that they segregated funds or if many just assumed.

    DraftKings explicitly lists this in their terms of service under Account Management at https://snag.gy/lyPMCD.jpg
    They have also represented this in investor documents. I don’t have any reason to doubt their claims but it may make sense for players to only maintain a few days worth of entry fees on any site that hasn’t proven these assurances.

  • shamrock77s

    @BmoreClutch said...

    To be clear I’m not blaming either site for what happened at Fantasy Aces. But I do think they should be held accountable for driving players to Fantasy Aces.

    If they are not subject to blame, how can they be held into account?
    I agree with most everyone on this thread regarding the FSTA…the group appears to be little more than window dressing that puts a stamp on a group and legitimizes unequivocally corrupt and shady businesses that have effectively screwed players who had full faith in their practices as a publicly traded company.
    I hope that there is some type of legal recourse that you guys can pursue that will leave you whole.
    This moved from ‘failed business venture’ to fraud the second that these guys moved into players accounts. The owners of Fantasy Aces are millionaires for shit sake…PAY YOUR DAMN PLAYERS.

  • southside

    In for a lawsuit. Or a trip to California to harvest organs. Whichever is easiest.

  • shamrock77s

    @elementasrat said...

    To be honest, I just want their personal assets. Ie. Cars, vacation homes, watches. Or is collateral not involved in this.

    Btw, I’m joking…………. kinda.

    If civil asset forfeiture can allow a cop to take an SUV from a guy with weed on him, shouldn’t these Aces jackwads lose everything?

  • BmoreClutch

    @shamrock77s said...

    If they are not subject to blame, how can they be held into account?
    I agree with most everyone on this thread regarding the FSTA…the group appears to be little more than window dressing that puts a stamp on a group and legitimizes unequivocally corrupt and shady businesses that have effectively screwed players who had full faith in their practices as a publicly traded company.
    I hope that there is some type of legal recourse that you guys can pursue that will leave you whole.
    This moved from ‘failed business venture’ to fraud the second that these guys moved into players accounts. The owners of Fantasy Aces are millionaires for shit sake…PAY YOUR DAMN PLAYERS.

    You can’t blame RG or FSTA for Fantasy Aces flat out stealing money from the players. That’s all on Fantasy Aces. But you can hold them accountable for not doing their homework. Which I’m assuming is true, but after reading crazypaul’s post I have some doubts.

  • KindGuy

    @shamrock77s said...

    If civil asset forfeiture can allow a cop to take an SUV from a guy with weed on him, shouldn’t these Aces jackwads lose everything?

    I don’t know much about law but I want in!!!!

  • somethingfresh

    Whoever said RG is responsible: Wrong. Maybe of some sort of negligence but no more so than anybody who played or dealt with that site. I mean the financials were totally public.

    Whoever said I quit: I feel for you, these scumbags need to be fought until the last breath, don’t give up.

    Whoever said FD/DK are risky too: I mean, technically, to some very small degree, yes. And that’s like getting 78904 technical. Look at who backs them, look at how they’re doing. You think those dozens of Fortune 500 companies behind them will let it go down in scandal? Look at the benches and the jumbotrons at games. Look at DK full go in UK now, and just getting licensed for Germany and saying they’re targeting all of Europe. The big 2, are the big 2 for a reason.

    Use sense people and ensure your money is safe at all times. Simply put, stick to the big 2 and fade Seige and you won’t have problems. I will be the first to blow the whistle for everyone if I smell something fishy.

  • shamrock77s

    @BmoreClutch said...

    You can’t blame RG or FSTA for Fantasy Aces flat out stealing money from the players. That’s all on Fantasy Aces. But you can hold them accountable for not doing their homework. Which I’m assuming is true, but after reading crazypaul’s post I have some doubts.

    I don’t know that anyone should blame Rotogrinders, who are obviously left holding the bag for an advertising bill that is past due. They are as screwed as players are at getting what they are owed at present. It would make sense to me that they took down any Aces ads and/or links when the balances went past due like any business would in that scenario. One of the easiest ways to ensure you don’t get paid is by putting the company that owes you on blast. How would that thread look in the forum?
    ‘Fantasy Aces now past due on payment obligations for Rotogrinders advertising’?
    That would create a run on accounts which were insolvent to begin with, as Aces execs had already spent the money on hookers and coke and it would ensure that RG doesn’t get paid either.
    I do have a problem with the FSTA however. It seems to be nothing more than a club that can execute no oversight or do anything other than legitimize businesses that should not be in business. Can anyone tell me one good thing that the FSTA can do, or what reason it even has for existing?

  • wquine

    Is our money burnt? What’s the next step? Any hope for our account balance?

  • stv1313

    Right from the Fantasy Aces website:

    “Are you looking for a more exciting way to play fantasy sports? Then you’ve come to the right place, where you can use your knowledge of professional athletes to win real cash and have the confidence of knowing your funds are safe!

    Fantasy Aces LLC is a US based fantasy sports website owned and operated in Southern California and our members funds are held in a segregated US bank account, separated from our operational accounts.”

  • kame222

    After watching part of this guys YouTube, he knew exactly what he was doing. This reminds me of a pyramid scheme in the mid 90’s known as IHI we could see this guy on 60 minutes one day and then for DFS it’ll be all over but the crying. With no regulations, the gig will be up within a couple of years. Without the average player, they can fold up the tent and call it a day. That’s a FACT!

  • KlairVoyant

    • 827

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Blogger of the Month

    I saved the TOS from FA. I also saved many of my conversations I had with them and Images of RG promoting them up until recently. If anyone is seeking to prove fraud I believe I may have some evidence. Contact me personally if you want more info.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 585

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @crazypaul said...

    @Cal, I have a specific question I wonder if you would be willing to answer.

    I dont think it’s fair to place any real blame on you or RG for FA’s mismanagement, but I noticed about a month ago, maybe more, that most if not all advertising for Fantasy Aces was removed from the site. I just assumed that for whatever business reasons 1 party or the other was no longer interested in this partnership. However, now I wonder, if there was enough of an issue to pull their advertising & sponsorships, shouldnt the users you asked to join their site have been notified so they could make their own decision to stay at that site? Maybe I am slightly confussed on the timeline, but I am pretty sure I noticed their logos gone from your site in early to mid December.

    The main active advertising we did with FantasyAces was the Happy Hour show sponsorship and promotional tournaments. Those sent the most referrals and we haven’t done those with FantasyAces in a while. We removed them from the Incentives program, review page, and blog sponsorship just in the last week as this came to light.

    We’re not public about our financials. Slow payments are not uncommon in this industry over the last year. There’s an enormous difference between not paying marketing partners and spending player funds. Every time I’ve talked with Tom they were just completing a round of financing or about to close a huge round. As I said earlier, it was a mistake for me to trust them and not drill down more into Aces’ actual situation. I definitely understand some of the frustration/disappointment with RG and other sites that promoted FA. Clearly someone needs to be doing more active policing, and we’re arguably the entity most appropriate to take it on.

  • neogamer

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I have no idea how bankruptcy works in these cases, but if they would of happened to have had all the players money in a separate account would the players be the first people paid back? I guess the question is.. is the players money separate when it comes to paying back creditors.

  • crazypaul

    @Cal said...

    I definitely understand some of the frustration/disappointment with RG and other sites that promoted FA. Clearly someone needs to be doing more active policing, and we’re arguably the entity most appropriate to take it on.

    Thank you for addressing that. I in no means think RG is responsible for lost funds, that is all on Fantasy Aces. I was just wondering when signs may have been in the air and if there could have been an opportunity for you to warn users earlier. Being open in this thread & addressing users is very refreshing.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 585

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @shamrock77s said...

    I do have a problem with the FSTA however. It seems to be nothing more than a club that can execute no oversight or do anything other than legitimize businesses that should not be in business. Can anyone tell me one good thing that the FSTA can do, or what reason it even has for existing?

    The FSTA is an industry trade organization. It’s not a player focused organization. It’s taken on a big role in the lobbying effort over the past year and taken a ton of heat because of it. The FSTA has been far from perfect in its decision making but it has clearly helped more than it has hurt. Peter Schoenke, the Chairman of the Board and President of RotoWire, probably spent more time meeting with reps and giving testimony than he did running his own company last year.

    The FSTA is a nonprofit with a volunteer board or directors. I’m on that board. Most members cite the benefits of the FSTA as networking at the two conferences per year and fantasy sports industry research. The FSTA was an important part of CDM Sports win over MLBAM concerning MLB stats in the mid 2000s. Outside if that it’s been largely uninvolved in lobbying/lawsuits/politics up until late 2015. It’s been a whirlwind since then that the FSTA was not fully equipped to deal with. I don’t think the FSTA will become a policing body, especially as state regulation and fees take a larger role in that area.

  • Daut44

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    I think they’re hiding money somewhere. They had ~450k back in September, Tom paid well over 100k to the company earlier this month yet they only have ~3k to show for it? I don’t buy a 150k/month burn rate, particularly in the past 2 weeks.

  • KindGuy

    @crazypaul said...

    Thank you for addressing that. I in no means think RG is responsible for lost funds, that is all on Fantasy Aces. I was just wondering when signs may have been in the air and if there could have been an opportunity for you to warn users earlier. Being open in this thread & addressing users is very refreshing.

    I would also like this answered.

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