INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 515

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Cal said...

    I don’t think the FSTA will become a policing body, especially as state regulation and fees take a larger role in that area.

    A few members have posted that the FSTA badge being displayed on a gaming site adds a degree of unearned trust. That point is more valid now than ever and something the board should discuss. I forwarded it on today.

  • KlairVoyant

    • 680

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Blogger of the Month

    Is it just me or does it look like they had less than 200 active players with deposits in their accounts as of Jan 31?

  • lostless

    @dude_abides7 said...

    To save the industry

    This is what happened to Full Tilt. Pokerstars bought them out.

  • dude_abides7

    @Cal said...

    The FSTA is an industry trade organization. It’s not a player focused organization.

    Yes, this is quite evident.

  • lostless

    Warning back of the envelop financial analysis and speculation **

    Looking into their financial statements somewhere around Q3, Q4, 2015 is my guess on when they started into player funds. They changed their reporting in 2016 and broke out “Customer Liabilities” into its own line item on their balance sheet in 2016. My guess is their accountants made them do that after the cash intermingled (speculation here). Prior to that, I assume player liabilities were covered in other payables. Either way, on their Dec 2015 filing they didn’t have the cash to cover player accounts.

    I don’t want to speculate but I suspect this is why their acquisition fell apart. They were in a pretty deep hole (445k cash, 1.5M in customer liabilities). They needed an injection of at least $2M to be a solvent company again to cover player and other liabilities. Given thier brand wasn’t strong enough to sustain the deposits without the heavy promotion, it was hard to see a path to turning around the company.

    The financial statements tell a pretty sad story. It seems they started with good intentions with separate accounts, re-financed a few times, eventually dipping into players funds when things got tight. They talk in their filing about the need to secure additional financing, acquisition or become profitable (they were never really close) to stay in business. They spent so much on promotion, but their deposits never really caught up. From what I can deduce, in 2016 they brought in ~2M in net deposits but spent 1.1M on promotion. That just isn’t sustainable.

    Really disappointing how management handled this. Once they only had enough cash to cover the player accounts they should have shut-down but they kept betting on being able to catch up or sell out bringing in new capital a few different times. Kudos to Rosters for quitting before they were too far behind.

    Filings here: http://www.sedar.com/DisplayCompanyDocuments.do?lang=EN&issuerNo=00011079

  • stv1313

    • 918

      RG Overall Ranking

    @KlairVoyant said...

    Is it just me or does it look like they had less than 200 active players with deposits in their accounts as of Jan 31?

    Line 14 of the bankruptcy document describes the estimated number of creditors as 200-999. I assume that individual player deposits are included in this number.

    Since I lost a balance in excess of this amount, I call dibs on the $1,430.58 laptop.

  • garybmw

    This industry continues to paint red bulls eyes on it then wonder why people look at it the way they do. First the ads ran every minute of every day, then they cut them down by 90%+ . Most of these sites will give way to DK/FD merger, and then it will all change. I mean just look at a “50/50” DK contest. How the hell is it 50 50 when there are 1149 entries and 500 winners? What is “50/50” in that contest with 500 winners and 649 losers? People keep turning a blind eye to little things and then boom, something big happens.

  • Pitch120

    Everyone’s saying “Ah we should’ve seen the warning signs” blah blah..Yet you all continue to still play on these sites and trust them.

    Until there’s actual regulation on the industry, you will continue to see the same stories over and over again. And everyone will be left so shocked that it happened.

  • therayray81

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2012 DraftStreet DSFC Finalist

    @somethingfresh said...

    Whoever said FD/DK are risky too: I mean, technically, to some very small degree, yes. And that’s like getting 78904 technical. Look at who backs them, look at how they’re doing. You think those dozens of Fortune 500 companies behind them will let it go down in scandal? Look at the benches and the jumbotrons at games. Look at DK full go in UK now, and just getting licensed for Germany and saying they’re targeting all of Europe. The big 2, are the big 2 for a reason.

    The Astros still play at Enron Field, right?

  • Pitch120

    @therayray81 said...

    The Astros still play at Enron Field, right?

    All of the poker sites were advertising pretty nicely too….

  • btwice80

    @garybmw said...

    I mean just look at a “50/50” DK contest. How the hell is it 50 50 when there are 1149 entries and 500 winners? What is “50/50” in that contest with 500 winners and 649 losers?

    Those are double ups, not 50/50s. All their 50/50s pay out exactly half the number of entries.

  • stv1313

    • 918

      RG Overall Ranking

    OMG. Please don’t tell me that this is about to degenerate into a discussion about the payout differences between 50/50’s and double-ups.

  • KindGuy

    @btwice80 said...

    Those are double ups, not 50/50s. All their 50/50s pay out exactly half the number of entries.

    Yet DK Decides to advertise them as 50/50s

  • garybmw

    Correct. Clicking on the 50/50 tab on the phone brings you to the 1149 entry contest with 500 winners. But thats obviously a “glitch” and isn’t meant to fool average or new people at all…….

  • garybmw

    I had money at Aces for a while, then lost it all not because they went bankrupt but because I am awful at fantasy and lost it all

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @stv1313 said...

    OMG. Please don’t tell me that this is about to degenerate into a discussion about the payout differences between 50/50’s and double-ups.

  • somethingfresh

    @therayray81 said...

    The Astros still play at Enron Field, right?

    I mean you’re kind of apple and oranging right now but my answer is count how many Enrons there are and how many non-Enrons there are. I think I said “very small degree” and that seems to be on the generous side.

    Made me laugh though

  • JCarp20

    This is rough for me, i have a decent amount left in my account. I pulled out a pretty large amount the beginning of January(luckily). Regardless, i am not too worried about my remaining balance. I am more worried about getting my 10999 being in the middle of buying my first home. If anyone has any answers as to when these will be sent that would be great. I do know they need to send these by January 31st. To add to this, my DFS days are now over unfortunately due to Aces being the only site that would allow me to play in Idaho.

  • royalfan

    • x2

      2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @ezk129 said...

    Hi All. I’m a 13 year industry vet (not a DFS operator) and have been an FSTA member for over a decade. I genuinely feel bad for everyone who was negatively effected by Fantasy Aces. It sucks, and you have every right to be pissed. One thing I just wanted to give some insight regarding is the FSTA and it’s role in the Fantasy vertical. The FSTA is a trade association that is supported by volunteers It is NOT a regulatory agency and there are no resources that allow for the association to monitor the day-to-day operations of it’s members. When something is reported it is investigated. If the determination is then made that a member organization has violated FSTA guidelines they are removed from the FSTA. I have no dog in this fight, but I want to just give some insight on the FSTA, because I can assure you that they are out for the greater good of the industry. I hope each of you somehow gets the outcome you deserve here once the dust settles.

    I am a 13 year industry vet and have thought the FSTA has sucked for over a decade. They rotate awards around to build each others sense of importance. They have never done a damn thing about these issues. Not after the WCOFF did this and still not today. They have done no good at all for the industry and have even harmed it, supporting the new bills being passed which is ruining the entire fantasy industry.

  • cogs7

    i havent played over there (aces) for about 3 weeks, taking break from the grind. See a tweet about dan talking about aces bankrupt today. I guess my money is lost! Now gotta worry, did they sell my info to the highest bidder. I was only there because they bought out fantasy feud, then all my info is just given to them (aces)from feud. I guess its time to pull out of the dfs non regulated/ 50% earnings to the tax man fun.

  • royalfan

    • x2

      2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Yep cogs. Sad the daily companies had to ruin a wonderful full season industry along with their own demise. Really, really sad state of affairs.

  • wolfpack8181

    I had no money on aces, what they did is pure theft by the info that is out. If they blew through that much cash in the last few months they probably gave themselves each a big Christmas bonus. They should be going to jail !
    Now what they have done could have happened in many other businesses or ventures. It is sad it happened to DFS as it will give some fire power to fight it.
    I do think Rotogrinders and FSTA are doing a great job in helping promote the community and sport. It is always easy to point the finger at others when shitty things happen. I have a feeling if Aces was on this site nobody would be calling out RG or FSTA on being accountable.
    If I lost any money I would be pissed as well and luckily I did not. ( prob because I am not that good but I love DFS )
    I hope everyone gets all of that cash back!

  • royalfan

    • x2

      2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I would most certainly still be calling the FSTA out as having a long history of doing nothing about these kinds of things. Are they accountable? No. Did they do anything to help prevent any of these things? No. Have they always collected membership fees without having any sort of accountability for these places? Yes.

  • Gfry3

    First off I would like to applaud Cam and RG, sure they maybe could have looked more into it but 1. its not their job to watch other companies and 2. He has answered a lot of tough questions on here, that is certainly something not everyone would do.

    My concern is for the fantasy industry as a whole, basically any site not DK/FD seems like a gamble at the very best to just get your money, while DK/FD laugh and know we as players have no where else to go so they can run the rake up and know they will continue to get business. As someone who enjoys playing it is not a great feeling knowing the outcome is more likely than not to be a poor one no matter what course you take.

    How people could knowing STEAL my and other players money like this is beyond me, hopefully karma catches them in a big way.

  • lmorrison745

    Lets pause for a minute and consider that the FSTA is a tiny organization that has a tiny budget. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you would like them to be a guardian, then the two possibilities are either DFS companies paying a big fee (not $600) to the FSTA (maybe $20-50K annually) for oversight, or have them take a % of each game’s rake. Either way, the players will take home less. Additionally even extensive audits are deceiving. Fantasy Aces was a public company, meaning they had to submit financials and be audited annually.

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