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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • dude_abides7

    @LSRDustin said...

    the charter that includes language about segregation of funds no longer appears on the FSTA website, for what it’s worth.

    Honestly, we should proceed moving forward as if the FSTA doesn’t exist, because for all intents and purposes it does not. It’s a useless organization to which sole purpose is to allow industry bigwigs to pat each other on the ass and feed their self aggrandizing personalities and interests.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @squirrelpatrol said...

    Whoah let’s slow down here – if there is no mention of FantasyAces on this guy’s LinkedIn account, what makes you think it’s the same person? If there is no mention of FantasyAces, it’s most likely someone with the same name who has no involvement whatsoever with this situation, right?

    In no post did I post a direct link to Tom Frisina’s linkedin account. So if somebody sends a message to the wrong Tom Frisina, that is on them, not me. But all one has to do is look at the correct Tom Frisina’s linkedin profile and do about 5 minutes worth of research to know it is him.

  • StlCyclone

    @UtesfanSLC said...

    Also, I have not looked into this, but is the requirement to segregate player funds part of any of the state statutes regulating DFS or is it just part of the FSTA agreement that these guys signed?

    I believe in New York operators had to sign papers declaring segregation in order to continue.

  • jhorst52

    • 42

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Daut44 said...

    They specifically said it on their website:

    Fraud, right? How do we best proceed given they made fraudulent claims and collectively (although not in the LLC) have the assets to pay off the player balances? Fraud enough to pierce the veil?

    I’m not a lawyer, but that’s fraud in my eyes.

    fraud
    frôd/Submit
    noun
    wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

    In my opinion they were deceiving users with the intent of long term personal/financial gain.

  • jhorst52

    • 42

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @EadesScience said...

    Shame on you for having your britches down!

    Are your britches ever up?

    Your comments continue to amaze me. When I think there is no way you will out-do yourself, you find a way. Thank you for the enjoyment you provide periodically throughout the forums.

  • UtesfanSLC

    Does anyone have a PDF of the segregated account statement from their website?

  • dude_abides7

    @UtesfanSLC said...

    Does anyone have a PDF of the segregated account statement from their website?

    You may be still able to find a cached version of the site indexed online or offline in one’s browser cookies if they had reviewed that page anytime recently.

    EDIT: The site is still being cached as of 1/20/17.

    Therefore, you should be able to extract the site map (wireframe) that shows the text that was there. You just need to know the exact URL to that page and then do a direct search on Google and click the little green arrow and choose “cached”.

  • stv1313

    If you Google search “About – Fantasy Aces”, you can obtain a cache version of the page that includes the segregated account statement.

  • oldschoolways

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Honestly, we should proceed moving forward as if the FSTA doesn’t exist, because for all intensive purposes it does not. It’s a useless organization to which sole purpose is to allow industry bigwigs to pat each other on the ass and feed their self aggrandizing personalities and interests.

    Really don’t like to be that guy, but…it’s “for all intents and purposes.” Other than that, totally agree.

  • edro990

    And the fallout begins:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2017/02/02/fantasy-aces-bankruptcy-further-hurts-antitrust-argument-for-fanduel-and-draftkings-merger/#21bedbe67a34

  • dude_abides7

    @oldschoolways said...

    Really don’t like to be that guy, but…it’s “for all intents and purposes.” Other than that, totally agree.

    Ha…nice catch…yes, I do indeed know the difference. Thanks…

  • UtesfanSLC

    I don’t see the cached version of the page when I do a google search. Will someone please get it and take a screen shot of it?

  • dude_abides7

    @UtesfanSLC said...

    I don’t see the cached version of the page when I do a google search. Will someone please get it and take a screen shot of it?

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hGcPaAjs584J:https://fantasyaces.com/about/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Does this work. I see it…it’s right there.

    Edit:

    http://prntscr.com/e3oueh

  • UtesfanSLC

    Yes. That worked. Thanks Dude.

  • ShowMeTheMoney

    • 2012 DraftStreet DSBC Finalist

    https://soundcloud.com/fantasy-aces-dfs-corp

    Some interesting site statistic stuff there. Kind of old, but interesting none the less.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 632

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    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @golferdude31 said...

    Anyone have a % chance that players get at least partially reimbursed for this shit show now that they’ve filed for bankruptcy protection?

    This has been my main focus today and yesterday. Learning more than I ever wanted to about bankruptcy. Too early to put a percentage chance on anything or get a clear picture for how long it would take, but there are parties interested in helping players.

  • Olhausen

    @edro990 said...

    And the fallout begins:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcedelman/2017/02/02/fantasy-aces-bankruptcy-further-hurts-antitrust-argument-for-fanduel-and-draftkings-merger/#21bedbe67a34

    Anyone who doesn’t think this won’t add to the already giant stain on Dfs I’ve got a bride to sell them.

  • BmoreClutch

    @Olhausen said...

    Anyone who doesn’t think this won’t add to the already giant stain on Dfs I’ve got a bride to sell them.

  • kame222

    @ShowMeTheMoney said...

    https://soundcloud.com/fantasy-aces-dfs-corp

    Some interesting site statistic stuff there. Kind of old, but interesting none the less.

    Interesting…in hindsight it looks like the biggest gamble was aces themselves. Tom is good…really good, very convincing, he had us all buffaloed. He will get his…

  • UtesfanSLC

    I have talked to the trustee’s case administrator and sent her some information that I believe is relevant. If anyone has questions feel free to send me a private message. It sounds like the meeting of creditors will take place on March 14, but no notice has been sent out.

  • herberh2

    @PeterYanidis said...

    They could have sold their company for $5 million dollars, but instead they got greedy and chose to be criminals. You could tell from their smirks that they were planning to do something like this all along.

    If they could have sole their company for the total liabilities (which include player balances) they would have. That was just under $3 million. The sale funds just make the company solvent to cover the liabilities. The FA owners get to walk away with no liability, no bankruptcy headache, no black mark, the buyer gets to have FA with all the player balances still on the site and operational.

    I would guess that they weren’t able to sell the company for the player balances.

  • herberh2

    Let me preface this by saying I’ve worked as the head of operations for OwnThePlay and iTEAM (Rosters) both having shut down operations. Essentially that was the #2 guy in charge behind the CEO at both companies. I am proud to say that both companies paid out their users, although I left OwnThePlay a few months before they ended operations as far as I know they made good on all of their balances.

    Now as someone who has experience working with regulators and the FSTA in this space let me give everyone some insight to how it works.

    Both regulators and the FSTA require you to separate operating funds and customer funds. But neither entity has the resources to keep ongoing oversight to ensure that happens. If you send them a monthly bank statement on the 1st of the month showing funds in an operating account and a customer account that is pretty much all they want. But that opens the door for the operator to just take all the player funds on the 2nd of the month.

    It’s just a dollars and cents issue. The smaller sites (like FantasyAces) probably pay out a few hundred bucks a month in taxes to the states with regulation. That likely doesn’t even cover all the manpower the state has to pay for to process the payments and paperwork. So already its a losing proposition for your tax dollars. Now you want additional oversight that regulation doesn’t demand. The money just isn’t there and when you think about stuff like health care, crime, education, etc. politicians have much bigger fish to fry then an industry that affects less than 1 percent of their voter base.

    So what can you as a consumer do to protect yourself?

    Well look for companies who have too much to lose to screw their customers. Yahoo is a gigantic company and Fanduel/Draftkings have huge name investors tied to their companies and on their board, plus they just went through/are going through intense auditing to be able to merge so they’re good. FantasyDraft is backed by a multi-millionaire (maybe billionaire?) so they’re good. iTEAM/Rosters was backed by Gabe Hunterton, he ran billion dollar casino properties so a hit to his reputation could affect a million dollar job down the road so there was never any motivation to cut corners at iTEAM. OwnThePlay just had some honest guys running it and we never really thought about doing that stuff but how are you to know that? The other companies???

    Not a single DFS company has ever turned a profit. Ever. So I imagine these guys were sitting there saying we can close up shop now or we can use the player funds and run for another 3-6 months and try to get investment or sell the company. It’s pretty scummy but you can see the reasoning.

    To find if a company is about to do that look for how well funded a company is. If a company isn’t backed by a super rich guy (FantasyDraft), a huge corporation (Yahoo), or is a leader in the space (FD/DK), you want to follow their funding. Go to websites like crunchbase or angellist and try to find info on recent rounds. A startup DFS website has a burn rate of about 2-3 million per year and that is assuming no TV commercials or huge overlays. So if they haven’t gotten that in funding, don’t fill up a ton of tourneys on their site and aren’t backed by Scrooge McDuck then you are going to get fucked.

    Another key thing is to watch how quickly payouts get sent and if anyone ever reports issues. A DFS company gets about 60-70% of its deposits via Paypal but pays out about 90-95% of its withdrawals through Paypal. So this means all of the CC deposits go to a bank account, which takes 4-5 business days to transfer to Paypal. Solvent companies just keep more than enough in their Paypal account. At both the companies I worked at we would constantly be transferring money to make sure we had enough in Paypal, it was a logistical nightmare. So if all of a sudden a Paypal withdrawal takes 4 days when it would normally take 1-2 that means the following; they don’t have the money in their paypal account and need to transfer, they dont have the money period and are scrambling to get it, they suck at operations. In any of those cases you probably shouldn’t be keeping a lot of money on the site because best case scenario your withdrawals are likely to take longer and be unreliable or worst case you don’t get your money.

    When you do cash out, never, ever request a check by mail. It takes so long and opens the window for the operator to say it got lost which it seems like FA pulled (and they occasionally do just get lost). For the operator it’s time consuming to process and send those. Paypal is 100x easier and faster. A bank wire is just as easy and fast. If a company offers to send you a check always ask for paypal or if its 10k+ get a wire transfer and if they bitch offer to pay the $20-$30 fee. If the company balks at those options then it’s time to hit the forums and social media and put them on blast. No company is every going to not pay you because you went public with this kind of info, all it can do is benefit you by pressuring them and their affiliate partners to put pressure on them. If people had gotten more vocal about slow cashouts and the excuses that were being given out as to why on FA then I bet a few people would have not deposited in those last days and it would have been better for everyone. If a company has the money they will pay you out without issue, its really just that simple.

    You can also protect yourself by continually depositing with your credit card and withdrawing, so you deposit…play…win…withdraw…deposit again. This is pretty easy with NFL as cashouts get processed before the next weeks games but sucks for other sports. Then if a company runs with the money, you can dispute your recent credit card charges. This really sucks for the operator because they incur a ton of payment processing fees, but some guys did this at iTEAM and we really couldn’t fault their reasoning. They didn’t know we were honest, they just wanted to protect themselves.

    So why give a smaller DFS site a chance at all?

    Well no DFS site is profitable so you will continue to see raised rake. The smaller sites that tried to get in a price war and have lower rake didn’t work. So the only way to see lower rake is to put your money where your mouth is and take your action from FD/DK. Their contests have been doing well and still fill with larger rake, until that stops being the case the rake will remain large. Or if another site get a large market share with smaller rake they would also have to reduce it. From everything I have seen and all the tournament entry data I have looked at, rake really just does not affect # of entries. The people in this forum are price sensitive, but the majority of players aren’t. Until the tournaments stop filling, rake will continue to go up or stay where it is at. So if this is more than a hobby to you and you want to keep making money, I suggest taking the time to find a tier 2 site to try out but please do your research and protect yourself.

  • herberh2

    I am also not working for any operator and had no balance on FA. In between jobs in the DFS space I played a lot of volume so I have been on that side of the fence. Just wanted to give some perspective, want companies to do the right thing and like the space but don’t have any motives with these posts.

  • stv1313

    I really wish that I was a fly on the wall in the headquarters of FantasyDraft. As they performed the initial due diligence on this purchase, it would have become very apparent very quickly that FantasyAces did not have sufficient bank balances to cover player deposits. Yet, despite this obvious fact, the two parties still announced the pending acquisition.

    So . . . with that being said . . . I wonder what really caused FantasyDraft to pull out of this deal. There must be something more that became evident that can’t be seen on a simple Balance Sheet or Income Statement. The paper analysis of those two statements would have been thoroughly vetted before any public announcement was made.

    Like I said, I wish I was a fly on the wall at FantasyDraft . . .

  • NewsboyMoriarty

    @Olhausen said...

    Anyone who doesn’t think this won’t add to the already giant stain on Dfs I’ve got a bride to sell them.

    Whats she look like.

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