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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • herberh2

    I would also like to add that every affiliate we had a partnership with, RotoGrinders included, wanted to know about our investment and management team. The amount of runway we had and our solvency was very important to them all. I think they all did a good job of doing their due diligence in our partnership negotiations.

  • sethayates

    @UtesfanSLC said...

    I have talked to the trustee’s case administrator and sent her some information that I believe is relevant. If anyone has questions feel free to send me a private message. It sounds like the meeting of creditors will take place on March 14, but no notice has been sent out.

    The bankruptcy trustee can go back six months if they paid any creditor over a certain amount. I’m not sure on the amount but I believe you mentioned it earlier.

    In looking through the financial statements it’s a bit concerning what happened to all of their cash.

    Per their financial statements on sedar.com their Cash on hand was:

    12/31: $42,169
    3/31: $297,479
    6/30: $118,016
    9/30: $444,956
    2/1: $3,111 (I added together Bank of America and Paypal from filing)

    What the heck happened to $440,000 in cash between 9/30 and 2/1? They weren’t previously burning through cash that quickly.

  • herberh2

    @stv1313 said...

    I really wish that I was a fly on the wall in the headquarters of FantasyDraft. As they performed the initial due diligence on this purchase, it would have become very apparent very quickly that FantasyAces did not have sufficient bank balances to cover player deposits. Yet, despite this obvious fact, the two parties still announced the pending acquisition.

    So . . . with that being said . . . I wonder what really caused FantasyDraft to pull out of this deal. There must be something more that became evident that can’t be seen on a simple Balance Sheet or Income Statement. The paper analysis of those two statements would have been thoroughly vetted before any public announcement was made.

    Like I said, I wish I was a fly on the wall at FantasyDraft . . .

    Same. I really don’t know how it could have gotten that far to break down. The only thing I can think of is FA shows FantasyDraft a list of all customer account balances. FantasyDraft says ok, we are basically making 750k (number pulled out of a hat) in accounts whole to complete this deal and FA gets to walk away without the headache. Then the time comes to make the deal and it comes out that there was 750k in balances and another 150k in pending withdrawals that had not been paid at the end of NFL season. That could have been missed because it likely wouldn’t be reflected on a user report they ran to show all the account balances. It’s also the type of thing that is likely to get uncovered later during due diligence when they start going through all the liabilities thoroughly to ensure all withdrawals were paid.

  • ohiostate241

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    If you’re a company and you intend to acquire their player list and potentially make them whole, why wouldn’t you just wait until the company goes into bankruptcy, buy the asset of the players list and then make them whole? That way you wouldn’t acquire the rest of the debt a company has in purchasing them outright.

    Do I think this is what will happen? No, but it made very little sense for FantasyDraft to acquire them if they had less than $5k in cash on hand. Now where that cash went, we all know where it went to the salaries and probably bonuses of the employees.

  • herberh2

    @ohiostate241 said...

    If you’re a company and you intend to acquire their player list and potentially make them whole, why wouldn’t you just wait until the company goes into bankruptcy, buy the asset of the players list and then make them whole? That way you wouldn’t acquire the rest of the debt a company has in purchasing them outright.

    Do I think this is what will happen? No, but it made very little sense for FantasyDraft to acquire them if they had less than $5k in cash on hand. Now where that cash went, we all know where it went to the salaries and probably bonuses of the employees.

    You can do an asset purchase to get the userbase with balances and none of the other liabilities. They wouldnt have to wait for bankruptcy.

  • jojo491048

    @herberh2 thanks for this. really helpful and good insight

  • lionssuck

    @sethayates said...

    The bankruptcy trustee can go back six months if they paid any creditor over a certain amount. I’m not sure on the amount but I believe you mentioned it earlier.

    In looking through the financial statements it’s a bit concerning what happened to all of their cash.

    Per their financial statements on sedar.com their Cash on hand was:

    12/31: $42,169
    3/31: $297,479
    6/30: $118,016
    9/30: $444,956
    2/1: $3,111 (I added together Bank of America and Paypal from filing)

    What the heck happened to $440,000 in cash between 9/30 and 2/1? They weren’t previously burning through cash that quickly.

    You would assume that the sites revenue would be higher from 9/30 – 2/1 since it’s football season

  • Messiah717

    None of the DFS companies have turned a profit ever because they haven’t figured out how to get over the NFL hump. Only five months a year for the most heavily played DFS sport with huge payouts. I don’t know the answer but until it changes this looks like a fun game but a failed business model.

  • sethayates

    @lionssuck said...

    You would assume that the sites revenue would be higher from 9/30 – 2/1 since it’s football season

    From 6/30 to 9/30 they saw a spike of about $300K in cash and $500K in Customer Liabilities.

    We have no idea how things looked on 1/1/2017. If they started paying back customers that’s fine. If the money went elsewhere I’d be curious where.

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @Messiah717 said...

    None of the DFS companies have turned a profit ever because they haven’t figured out how to get over the NFL hump. Only five months a year for the most heavily played DFS sport with huge payouts. I don’t know the answer but until it changes this looks like a fun game but a failed business model.

    The NBA doesn’t see them through the rest of the Winter/Spring? Those tournaments are pretty massive day-in, day-out.

  • StlCyclone

    @Cal said...

    This has been my main focus today and yesterday. Learning more than I ever wanted to about bankruptcy. Too early to put a percentage chance on anything or get a clear picture for how long it would take, but there are parties interested in helping players.

    Conspiracy theory, FD and DK could not buy Aces out to keep it out of the headlines because they are working anti-trust issues on there own merger. However, the value of the “IP” listed in the Aces bankruptcy filing matches almost exactly what is owed players. Perhaps FD or DK swoops into bankruptcy court to buy the IP and that makes players whole and keeps regulators from freaking out.

  • Messiah717

    @Zieg30 said...

    The NBA doesn’t see them through the rest of the Winter/Spring? Those tournaments are pretty massive day-in, day-out.

    You would think the NBA and all the other sports combined would but up to this point when we look at the numbers it’s not translating. Frankly, while it’s possible things are better now it’s obvious these companies have not been run well from a dollars and cents perspective. You need good sound business people. Not the frat brother mentality. It would’ve been better for these companies to spend some of the ridiculous advertising dollars they shelled out on hiring good business and finance people to run that side of the business.

  • StlCyclone

    @sethayates said...

    The bankruptcy trustee can go back six months if they paid any creditor over a certain amount. I’m not sure on the amount but I believe you mentioned it earlier.

    In looking through the financial statements it’s a bit concerning what happened to all of their cash.

    Per their financial statements on sedar.com their Cash on hand was:

    12/31: $42,169
    3/31: $297,479
    6/30: $118,016
    9/30: $444,956
    2/1: $3,111 (I added together Bank of America and Paypal from filing)

    What the heck happened to $440,000 in cash between 9/30 and 2/1? They weren’t previously burning through cash that quickly.

    They always had overlays in their contests.

  • sethayates

    @StlCyclone said...

    They always had overlays in their contests.

    Yes, but overlay doesn’t change your cash balance. It just grows your customer liability.

  • StlCyclone

    @sethayates said...

    Yes, but overlay doesn’t change your cash balance. It just grows your customer liability.

    True. Unless folks cash out.

  • btwice80

    @StlCyclone said...

    They always had overlays in their contests.

    They actually rarely had true overlay. Even when the GPPs didn’t fill, it usually got to break-even if not above by a few percent.

  • KindGuy

    Is personal asset forfeiture really a possibility?

  • BloodGame

    @StlCyclone said...

    They always had overlays in their contests.

    Overlay is a common theme in these companies that go under. It’s definitely the only reason I ever play on these smaller sites, and I’m sure it’s what attracts a lot of customers. Play on FD with 10-15% rake or play on Fantasy Aces with overlay on their GPPs almost every single night and also their cash games regularly hmmmm. I remember for a while Fantasy Hub had an absurd amount of overlay – it was almost free money. With that much overlay these sites can’t be making money – but without it they don’t attract a lot of customers like myself. Double edged sword.

  • BloodGame

    @btwice80 said...

    They actually rarely had true overlay. Even when the GPPs didn’t fill, it usually got to break-even if not above by a few percent.

    You’re right – it should be classified as rake free (or near rake free) games, more so than overlay, when it comes to most of Aces contests anyways. But many of their guaranteed contests didn’t fill almost every night. There were opportunities though for true overlay, particularly on their satellites which sometimes had tons of overlay.

  • therayray81

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2012 DraftStreet DSFC Finalist

    How about the sites start with something simple…posting that any money in your account is not insured and is an unsecured claim against said company. I am sure this is buried somewhere in a FAQ or user agreement, but given everything that has happened in the past year or so this should be noted on the site for users to see.

  • golferdude31

    • 717

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #99

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 King of Summer Champion

    @UtesfanSLC said...

    I have talked to the trustee’s case administrator and sent her some information that I believe is relevant. If anyone has questions feel free to send me a private message. It sounds like the meeting of creditors will take place on March 14, but no notice has been sent out.

    To Cal, Utesfan or anyone else that is planning to be directly involved in “fighting” this for players, would it help to have a google spreadsheet or something along those lines that has player information and their approximate balances on the site? I say approximate since it is impossible to look and see what your actual balance was now. It seems as though even if the company is out of money to pay back creditors and/or balance holders, there would be a case to be made for fraud and a lawsuit to go after personal assets of all that were involved in this, but I obviously don’t have the legal resources or time to dedicate to anything like that. That being said, it would be nice if their was some type of representation for all players. Maybe when Utesfan talks with their Trustee, he can mention some of these things? Just my two cents from someone who knows absolutely nothing about bankruptcy…

  • johnnyj580

    @StlCyclone said...

    They always had overlays in their contests.

    THIS. Enormous overlays

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 585

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @golferdude31 said...

    To Cal, Utesfan or anyone else that is planning to be directly involved in “fighting” this for players, would it help to have a google spreadsheet or something along those lines that has player information and their approximate balances on the site? I say approximate since it is impossible to look and see what your actual balance was now. It seems as though even if the company is out of money to pay back creditors and/or balance holders, there would be a case to be made for fraud and a lawsuit to go after personal assets of all that were involved in this, but I obviously don’t have the legal resources or time to dedicate to anything like that. That being said, it would be nice if their was some type of representation for all players. Maybe when Utesfan talks with their Trustee, he can mention some of these things? Just my two cents from someone who knows absolutely nothing about bankruptcy…

    This list is definitely necessary for reimbursing players. My understanding is that it is an asset held by the trustee. There are ongoing discussions around this but still not enough clarity to report anything solid.

  • KindGuy

    @golferdude31 said...

    a lawsuit to go after personal assets of all that were involved in this

  • breedloveboxer

    @golferdude31 said...

    To Cal, Utesfan or anyone else that is planning to be directly involved in “fighting” this for players, would it help to have a google spreadsheet or something along those lines that has player information and their approximate balances on the site? I say approximate since it is impossible to look and see what your actual balance was now. It seems as though even if the company is out of money to pay back creditors and/or balance holders, there would be a case to be made for fraud and a lawsuit to go after personal assets of all that were involved in this, but I obviously don’t have the legal resources or time to dedicate to anything like that. That being said, it would be nice if their was some type of representation for all players. Maybe when Utesfan talks with their Trustee, he can mention some of these things? Just my two cents from someone who knows absolutely nothing about bankruptcy…

    I attempted to withdraw $7000.65 on January 21st, and then $2,465.65 on January 24th. In my prior experience, these withdrawals typically took 2-3 days for Aces to process, and after the 4th day… I knew something was up. After hearing of the potential acquisition of Aces, I e-mailed customer service and inquired about my withdrawals the evening of January 25th. I didn’t hear a response, so inquired again the following day, emphasizing my concern regarding the transition, and whether this would complicate my withdrawals. “Bryan F.” then e-mailed me on January 26th @4:05pm, stating the following “Hello Chris. Here is a snap shot of your current balance on FantasyAces.com. BALANCE: $9,591.30 BONUS BALANCE: $0.00 MEMBER POINTS: 1,272.38. We expect all funds to be available for processing through FantasyDraft in 3-5 business days maybe sooner. We have appreciated your business and know you will enjoy the experience on FantasyDraft.com if you do not already have an account.” Further, it was verified that two of my entries from the last NBA contest had cashed (hence the extra $125 in my total balance).

    Given “Golferdude31’s” comment regarding estimating balances, I am assuming that not everyone received an e-mail stating their final balance. I have received the full bankruptcy document, and when our names are listed (players names and addresses are listed under “nonpriority creditors”), the balance for each player states “Unknown.” The only stated balances are large companies such as RG, and other investors.

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