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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • wolfjb1

    @Yeoman said...

    Nobody’s going to be made whole but I don’t see why that’s a reason not to stake your place in the line. There were people upthread with 50k balances—wouldn’t even pennies on the dollar be worth pursuing?

    Right.

    I have no opinion on the odds that me and all the other players are or aren’t going to get your money back. But I’m fairly sure you won’t get your money back if you don’t put in a claim! No harm in getting your name on there.

    As someone said above, getting at the D&O policy is probably the way to go, but, yeah, it’s not a sure thing by any means.

  • LSRDustin

    @wolfjb1 said...

    I’m not allowed to share it because I could lose access to the federal filing system and I can’t have that. Anyone can look at any document. You have to register, which is free, but I’m not sure.

    http://www.pacer.gov/reg_pacer.html

    Message me your email and will provide the full doc. It does cost like $3 to download it, I think.

  • cb35

    2013 FFFC Finalist, 2013 DFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Yeoman said...

    I used to write D&O insurance for a living so I guess I’ll weigh in here. By all means that should be pursued, but don’t be surprised if the insurer successfully denies the claim. Precise details differ from policy to policy but the exclusion you’re referring to is typically broader than just criminal acts—the usual wording excludes “knowingly dishonest acts” as well. They’ll deny the claim on those grounds; you can and should fight it but my gut says that when discovery’s been done we’ll find out there was knowledge aplenty.

    For those of you that owned stock, you might also have grounds for a claim against their auditors, which again is better pursued collectively. For the rest of you there’s the possibility of court-ordered restitution as part of a criminal case. Everybody that’s been hit by this should be contacting the AG in their state.

    Yeoman – fellow insurance guy here as well. The burden of proof for exclusions falls to the insurer and I think given they were in the process of a buyout and didn’t simply just skip town gives it some credence they were operating negligently and not criminally/dishonestly. Whatever flawed logic they used and granted quite a bit of discovery needs to come out and this is just pure speculation at this point but the D&O coverage premium is $14K you would know better than me but I would think that puts them with policy limits in the $2M – $5M territory which my understanding the player balances are in the $1.3M range. Granted they would not be the only ones with potential claims against the policy, etc.

  • carney259

    • 159

      RG Overall Ranking

    Yeah I agree, and I’d do the same if I had a large balance. I just wouldn’t get too excited about the prospects.

    If anyone would like the full petition, send me a PM. I’m not aware of any prohibition on sharing public documents obtained from PACER.

  • wolfjb1

    @cb35 said...

    Yeoman – fellow insurance guy here as well. The burden of proof for exclusions falls to the insurer and I think given they were in the process of a buyout and didn’t simply just skip town gives it some credence they were operating negligently and not criminally/dishonestly. Whatever flawed logic they used and granted quite a bit of discovery needs to come out and this is just pure speculation at this point but the D&O coverage premium is $14K you would know better than me but I would think that puts them with policy limits in the $2M – $5M territory which my understanding the player balances are in the $1.3M range. Granted they would not be the only ones with potential claims against the policy, etc.

    The possibilities are endless. So we sue in negligence and one of their affirmative defenses is, “no, we weren’t negligent, we were committing fraud” which is not a very helpful defense. Then the carrier files a dec that they have no duty to indemnify (but I assume they still have to defend) and it’s a giant cluster with deep pockets all around and the trustee is involved and … we all know these things almost never get to a jury. Anyway, as I posted upthread without details, getting at the D&O policy is what I’m concentrating my legal research on for the time being.

  • Yeoman

    @herberh2 said...

    Both regulators and the FSTA require you to separate operating funds and customer funds. But neither entity has the resources to keep ongoing oversight to ensure that happens. If you send them a monthly bank statement on the 1st of the month showing funds in an operating account and a customer account that is pretty much all they want. But that opens the door for the operator to just take all the player funds on the 2nd of the month.

    That’s how it starts…then at the end of the month you’re scrambling to make that customer account whole again. Stretching a/p times, making “mistakes.” Each month it gets harder. True story:

    House closing. Everybody sits down at the closing table. Closing attorney opens a fedex envelope with the funds from the mortgage company…and the envelope is empty. No check.

    There’s a brief recess while he calls the mortgage company. “Let me check with the desk that cuts those checks…. Oh, hell, we’re really, really sorry, that’s just an unimaginable fuckup, the check’s still here and we sent out an empty envelope. We can overnight it to you, or we can put through a wire if you’d rather but our bank won’t process that until midnight tonight.”

    “Well everyone’s here at the table and we have to close now. Tell you what…cut the check to me and overnight it; I can cover the money for one night.”

    Closing attorney writes the check himself. Everyone’s happy.

    Attorney has another closing that afternoon. Everyone sits down at the table, he opens a fedex envelope…. Checks the address again. Same mortgage company. There’s a brief recess while he calls law enforcement….

    I have no idea how they thought they were going to get away with it. I’m sure they didn’t know they were stiffing the same attorney twice but regardless it’s hard to imagine they were doing anything but holding off the inevitable for another day or two. But once you get on that treadmill I guess it’s hard to get off.

    If I’m not mistaken the president of the mortgage company did time in a federal pen for wire and securities fraud. Turned out his brother was actually running the operation from a neighboring office but had no official position with the company because he’d already gone away once for fraud and was prohibited from serving as an officer in a financial institution. They sent him back to the joint too.

    ——

    I just googled the guy to see what he was up to these days. Found what looked like his resume on a website in his name, but when I tried to go there I got a warning from my antivirus that the site was unsafe and was trying to steal identity/financial information. LOL.

  • sethayates

    @wolfjb1 said...

    The possibilities are endless. So we sue in negligence and one of their affirmative defenses is, “no, we weren’t negligent, we were committing fraud” which is not a very helpful defense. Then the carrier files a dec that they have no duty to indemnify (but I assume they still have to defend) and it’s a giant cluster with deep pockets all around and the trustee is involved and … we all know these things almost never get to a jury. Anyway, as I posted upthread without details, getting at the D&O policy is what I’m concentrating my legal research on for the time being.

    Just so everyone is aware, FantasyAces is either monitoring this thread of purging public content that they own which is damning. Earlier in this thread someone posted a video from Aces YouTube channel and it was promptly removed from the channel within hours.

    It’s honestly probably a good thing for them to be aware that people are not just giving up on this. They likely have the means to fix this if things get to the point where criminal proceedings are being considered.

  • sethayates

    @bradizpro said...

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU6Jlb-hxoY explosive to broke…….smh

    My post above was talking about this video. Poof, gone!

  • wolfjb1

    @sethayates said...

    Just so everyone is aware, FantasyAces is either monitoring this thread of purging public content that they own which is damning. Earlier in this thread someone posted a video from Aces YouTube channel and it was promptly removed from the channel within hours.

    It’s honestly probably a good thing for them to be aware that people are not just giving up on this. They likely have the means to fix this if things get to the point where criminal proceedings are being considered.

    Good. Nothing anyone is saying here is confidential in any way, shape or form and anyone who has an expectation of privacy for RG posts is delusional.

  • jhorst52

    • 42

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Since they are monitoring – please read.

    Fuck you, scumbags.

  • Yeoman

    @wolfjb1 said...

    The possibilities are endless. So we sue in negligence and one of their affirmative defenses is, “no, we weren’t negligent, we were committing fraud” which is not a very helpful defense. Then the carrier files a dec that they have no duty to indemnify (but I assume they still have to defend) and it’s a giant cluster with deep pockets all around and the trustee is involved and … we all know these things almost never get to a jury. Anyway, as I posted upthread without details, getting at the D&O policy is what I’m concentrating my legal research on for the time being.

    My post was careless and I think I caused some confusion. That’s not the company’s defense against your suit, that’s the insurer’s defense against the company’s claim for indemnification. Your dispute with the company and the Ds and Os is a separate legal action from the company’s attempt to get the insurance company to pay its costs and any eventual loss.

    ———

    And I doubt an attorney would advise you to only assert negligence. You’d be giving away your chance to pierce the corporate veil. Assert everything and let discovery sort it out, is how these things usually seem to work.

  • breedloveboxer

    We aren’t giving up, FA…

  • Yeoman

    @cb35 said...

    Yeoman – fellow insurance guy here as well. The burden of proof for exclusions falls to the insurer and I think given they were in the process of a buyout and didn’t simply just skip town gives it some credence they were operating negligently and not criminally/dishonestly. Whatever flawed logic they used and granted quite a bit of discovery needs to come out and this is just pure speculation at this point but the D&O coverage premium is $14K you would know better than me but I would think that puts them with policy limits in the $2M – $5M territory which my understanding the player balances are in the $1.3M range. Granted they would not be the only ones with potential claims against the policy, etc.

    Rule of thumb: half the loss will be legal costs. A $2M policy probably wouldn’t make everyone whole even if it paid.

    Something I should probably have mentioned before: the policies I wrote specifically excluded commingling of funds. I was covering financial institutions and a general policy might not have that provision, but there’s no way I’d write a DFS company without including that provision. The question is, did the underwriter on this know anything about DFS or was this just part of some miscellaneous program?

    My intuition says the leverage is on the insurer’s side here. (It also says they might not know what they’re doing or they wouldn’t have written this in the first place.)

  • KindGuy

    @dude_abides7 said...

    So they are a family of thieves?

    Great, they can share the same cell in Leavenworth.

    About to book my flight so I can visit them and laugh!

  • cb35

    2013 FFFC Finalist, 2013 DFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @wolfjb1 said...

    The possibilities are endless. So we sue in negligence and one of their affirmative defenses is, “no, we weren’t negligent, we were committing fraud” which is not a very helpful defense. Then the carrier files a dec that they have no duty to indemnify (but I assume they still have to defend) and it’s a giant cluster with deep pockets all around and the trustee is involved and … we all know these things almost never get to a jury. Anyway, as I posted upthread without details, getting at the D&O policy is what I’m concentrating my legal research on for the time being.

    They will plead the 5th in any civil complaint if they are facing criminal prosecution. There are enough questions of fact, I doubt a dec action succeeds (they are hard to win, trust me). The plaintiffs need to get a copy of their D&O policy to really find out it says as they are not off the shelf policies.

  • Yeoman

    @cb35 said...

    I would think that puts them with policy limits in the $2M – $5M territory which my understanding the player balances are in the $1.3M range. Granted they would not be the only ones with potential claims against the policy, etc.

    Market cap at the top was about $10M, yes? That gives a rough cap to the size of any securities litigation.

  • ohiostate241

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    Since they are monitoring, they want us to give up, doing that would be letting them win.

    I’m out to ruin their lives, any future endeavor that they ever enter into, I’ll be screaming from the mountain tops that they’re criminals.

  • djcory27

    www.tomfrisinaisathief.com launching in a few days…

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I don’t know if it was a result of this, but just noticed my very recent DraftKings withdrawal to PayPal came from “DraftKings Player Reserve, LLC.” In the past it always just came from “DraftKings, Inc.”

  • kame222

    @djcory27 said...

    www.tomfrisinaisathief.com launching in a few days…

    good idea, it’s a start…

  • KindGuy

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I don’t know if it was a result of this, but just noticed my very recent DraftKings withdrawal to PayPal came from “DraftKings Player Reserve, LLC.” In the past it always just came from “DraftKings, Inc.”

    Yea it’s recent…. depending on how you define recent. Probably been about 3 months I think.

  • KindGuy

    https://www.tomfrisina.com/

    “We’re under construction”

    Lol more like “under demolition”

  • madmanjayWV

    @sethayates said...

    My post above was talking about this video. Poof, gone!

    They might be able to take down their crappy Youtube videos in an attempt to run and hide….but they can’t take down classic stuff like this.

    I think I’ve watched it six times since yesterday!

    http://www.captiongenerator.com/342712/Hitler-Fantasy-Aces

    “Those a$$holes had the business sense of a 4 year old.”
    “I was lured in by the GD YACHT.”
    “It wasn’t even a nice yacht.”
    “TommyG has a better one himself.”

  • kame222

    @madmanjayWV said...

    They might be able to take down their crappy Youtube videos in an attempt to run and hide….but they can’t take down classic stuff like this.

    I think I’ve watched it six times since yesterday!

    http://www.captiongenerator.com/342712/Hitler-Fantasy-Aces

    “Those a$$holes had the business sense of a 4 year old.”
    “I was lured in by the GD YACHT.”
    “It wasn’t even a nice yacht.”
    “TommyG has a better one himself.”

    AWESOME!! 😂😂😂

  • sambo58

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I don’t know if it was a result of this, but just noticed my very recent DraftKings withdrawal to PayPal came from “DraftKings Player Reserve, LLC.” In the past it always just came from “DraftKings, Inc.”

    I noticed the same thing before this all came down on my withdrawals in the past month from DK. They also seemed to take a little longer to be approved and sent to PayPal than normal.

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