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  • appguy

    Hey guys,

    New here. Does anyone have any experience with FantasyAces and their withdrawal times? I requested a $600 payout to PayPal 7 days ago and still have not received it. Their website says 24-48 hours.

    I would assume these smaller sites would have a heavier focus on customer service, which is why I chose FantasyAces (along with the smaller GPP games). Apparently not?

    MOD NOTE: FANTASYDRAFT PULLS OUT OF ACES DEAL, 1/30: In an official statement from FantasyDraft, the company has said “Unfortunately, because of issues identified during our due diligence, we are unable to purchase the assets of Fantasy Aces. We will continue to provide the best possible daily fantasy experience for our users, and are committed as always to putting our Players First.” We’ll post any additional news as it’s confirmed.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 1, 1:53 AM EST): FANTASY ACES HAS FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY Initially reported here.

    MOD NOTE (Feb 13, 8:40 PM EST): HUGE NEWS VIA FANTASY DRAFT, REIMBURSING FANTASY ACES PLAYERS Initially reported here.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @stv1313 said...

    It’s important to remember that 1099’s are not based on money that you withdraw. They are based exclusively on money you “earned” – whether you withdrew it or not.

    The difficult part of this situation is that 1099’s from 2016 will not contemplate that the company went bankrupt in 2017. As such, if/when you receive a 2016 1099 for a certain dollar amount from Fantasy Aces, you should probably report that income on your tax return. Otherwise, it will raise a red flag for the government. The government frowns when they get a 1099 from a supplier that is not reported on someone’s tax return. In fact, you are begging for an audit if you simply ignore a Fantasy Aces 1099 with the rationale that “I never got the money, so I’m not reporting anything.”

    Since the bankruptcy is occurring in 2017, this is the year that, in a normal situation, you would recognize the “loss” of that money. Unfortunately, that gets difficult if you are simply reporting your DFS income as a hobby. For those people that report DFS as a 2nd job, the bankruptcy losses can be booked as a “cost of doing business.” However, that probably shouldn’t be done until 2017 – or the year that the bankruptcy actually occurred.

    Sigh. It’s messy. This is why we have CPA’s in this world. I was a CPA in a former life. Now I’m just a lowly accountant (Controller) for a privately owned company.

    This is a good post and I agree.

    A CPA probably wouldn’t say this but the best case scenario for anyone with significant balances likely lost on Fantasy Aces is if Fantasy Aces does not issue 1099’s (my guess would be that they do not). I think this gives you more room (less audit risk) to pay taxes in 2016 on the “income” you actually received. But as always, contact a tax professional.

  • Yeoman

    @oldschoolways said...

    it’s a real moral hazard situation where bailing out these companies just encourages more to sprout up

    The consequence of the moral hazard isn’t just encouraging more companies to sprout up—that would be benign—but encouraging those companies to raid the accounts when things go south (if not before). Once DK had made everyone whole in the FantasyHub debacle there was no one to bring any lawsuits or bring pressure to bear on attorneys general; the perpetrators get off scot free.

    This might not be a popular opinion but I think what this industry needs is criminal prosecution if criminal acts were committed. An example needs to be set.

  • Messiah717

    @kame222 said...

    WOOOW you really ARE the Messiah. Thanks! What about the ones that didn’t have a big balance but finished in the money in the last tournament and maybe would have cashed 7 or 8 grand? Is that the players fault too?

    I didn’t cast blame on anybody. You’re simply reading something not there to create a nonsense argument. In fact I said no longer which means moving forward, in the future or whatever other synonym you prefer. I also said any DFS site which would mean any and all of them.

  • Messiah717

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    This is a good post and I agree.

    A CPA probably wouldn’t say this but the best case scenario for anyone with significant balances likely lost on Fantasy Aces is if Fantasy Aces does not issue 1099’s (my guess would be that they do not). I think this gives you more room (less audit risk) to pay taxes in 2016 on the “income” you actually received. But as always, contact a tax professional.

    With no 1099 there’s no taxes to be paid. When somebody is issued a 1099 a copy of that 1099 also gets sent to the IRS. If no 1099s are sent out in this instance not only would a player not know what he won and needs to pay taxes on but the IRS wouldn’t either.

  • oldschoolways

    @Yeoman said...

    The consequence of the moral hazard isn’t just encouraging more companies to sprout up—that would be benign—but encouraging those companies to raid the accounts when things go south (if not before). Once DK had made everyone whole in the FantasyHub debacle there was no one to bring any lawsuits or bring pressure to bear on attorneys general; the perpetrators get off scot free.

    This might not be a popular opinion but I think what this industry needs is criminal prosecution if criminal acts were committed. An example needs to be set.

    That’s a fair point, honestly. Clearly the FantasyHub thing going south wasn’t enough of a deterrent to the Frisinas or to Plappert himself if he still has it up on his LinkedIn (and even has a public LinkedIn profile for that matter).

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I’d suggest anyone who was affected spend a few minutes filling this out for the DOJ in CA

    https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Messiah717 said...

    With no 1099 there’s no taxes to be paid. When somebody is issued a 1099 a copy of that 1099 also gets sent to the IRS. If no 1099s are sent out in this instance not only would a player not know what he won and needs to pay taxes on but the IRS wouldn’t either.

    “With no 1099 there’s no taxes to be paid.”

    Not true. All income is expected to be reported regardless of whether there is a document of record (W2, 1099, etc.) sent to the IRS.

    “When somebody is issued a 1099 a copy of that 1099 also gets sent to the IRS.”

    This is true, which is why this situation could get messier if 1099’s are sent out and someone never really got “constructive receipt” of their funds (yet it could be argued this happened in 2017). The IRS will expect to see the amount on the 1099 reported on the tax return.

    “If no 1099s are sent out in this instance not only would a player not know what he won and needs to pay taxes on but the IRS wouldn’t either.”

    Individuals should keep their own records of income. I may be guilty of this at times as well but no one should just trust the sites to report their net income for them. All income is reportable. A player on Fantasy Aces should have their own records or at worst make a best guess estimate of their income based on Paypal/bank statements. IRS would not know of this income and they may not ever find out, but if they do through an audit, you would face penalties and fees on unreported income.

  • ColonialRampage

    As far as this thread only being 32 pages long…

    I’ve lost a ton of enthusiasm for DFS over the past year and these scandals are a huge part of that. When DK stepped up to cover the FantasyHub situation that renewed my faith and got me interested again. Since the Aces news came out, my play has gone down even more and this may just be the last straw for me. I’m sure that are others like me out there who won’t even bother to post anything. They’ll just go away.

    As far as taxes go…
    A big part of realizing how much my attitude has changed over the course of the past year was working on taxes this weekend and seeing the FantasyFeud cashouts. That site really was the best. For anyone that played there to calculate your profit the easiest way to do that is (Withdrawals – Deposits – Change in account balance from 1/1/16 to 12/31/16). You may have to estimate that last number, but you should have bank and paypal records for the rest.

    On the overall Aces situation…
    It seems pretty clear we’re not getting anything out of Aces at this point. Maybe Cam can drop back in and shed some light. Is there hope for anything from any other source or is that pretty much the end of it?

  • Yeoman

    @britdevine said...

    I’d suggest anyone who was affected spend a few minutes filling this out for the DOJ in CA

    Yes.

    I also suggest they contact the US Federal Trade Commission (I think you can report to them through stopfraud.gov) and the Attorney General in their own state. This may have been a Canadian company but that doesn’t allow them to violate US law with impunity.

  • Yeoman

    @oldschoolways said...

    That’s a fair point, honestly. Clearly the FantasyHub thing going south wasn’t enough of a deterrent to the Frisinas or to Plappert himself if he still has it up on his LinkedIn (and even has a public LinkedIn profile for that matter).

    Not only is it not a deterrant, but if people keep getting away with it it’s going to serve to attract the worst actors. Scammers go where the scamming is good, and they always have a leg up on the honest. If your endgame is to take the money, you can always go the extra mile with deposit bonuses and the like.

    Went through something like this with the mortgage industry, especially in the subprime sector. Sort of an analogue to Gresham’s Law (bad money drives out good money).

  • tmirrione

    I don’t expect to get an answer in this thread, but do we have any idea on what the probability of 1099’s being issued are? I would like to do my taxes, and would estimate my income if need be, but I don’t want to do that just to have the 1099’s issued and have to amend.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @tmirrione said...

    I don’t expect to get an answer in this thread, but do we have any idea on what the probability of 1099’s being issued are? I would like to do my taxes, and would estimate my income if need be, but I don’t want to do that just to have the 1099’s issued and have to amend.

    I have not played there in over a year but my expectation would be that they will not be sending 1099’s considering how quickly they shuddered the site and declared for bankruptcy. By law, they should have been in the mail by Jan 31st. So if you do not receive it by mid-February, it is even more likely you are not getting one. I would probably just proceed with using your own income calculation/estimate based on PayPal/bank statements to help determine deposits and withdrawals if you have not received anything by mid/late next week. Usually best to talk to a tax professional though. Just my opinion.

  • Hkhotsskhotb

    @oldschoolways said...

    They did but DraftKings stepped up to “assume the liability” (made the players whole basically). I totally get why FD/DK aren’t doing that this time, it’s a real moral hazard situation where bailing out these companies just encourages more to sprout up. FantasyHub was especially egregious because they had the donate to charity angle (which of course they weren’t actually doing), that drew a lot of extra media attention. FantasyAces is a little more DFS-specific, and after these other sites have gone bust I guess it feels like old news.

    Old news! This was the third largest dfs site. Supposedly had nice owners, hosted live finals and were promoted by multiple other sites. If you were going to keep a balance on a site, this would have seemed to be one of those you could have done so on.

    What was the players liability of hub? Compared to Aces I’m going to guess not even close. Since there’s alot of sentiment on here that oh well you’re otta luck, should have know better. Let’s all just get back to pumping money into gpps tonight and move on we’ve got a problem.

    Sites big and small, content providers, pros, all dfs included shouldn’t let this die so fast whether you had money there or not.

  • Jcb890

    @Hkhotsskhotb said...

    Old news! This was the third largest dfs site. Supposedly had nice owners

    Honestly, reading this shit makes me sick. These people are business men and will clearly steal your money to benefit themselves. They are not nice people, no matter if they look like a nice frat bro with moppy curly hair and an unsuspecting goatee. In their defense, why wouldn’t they just steal everyone’s money and make out like a bandit when things go under? What’s going to happen? The answer is sadly most likely nothing. Just from the few who have posted what they lost/were owed, there’s well over $75,000 missing and that is just from a couple of people in this thread.

    What would you do if someone stole $50,000 from you that you had worked to build up through your own time and effort? If it were me, I think I’d heading out to California to have a face-to-face meeting with Bryan Frisina.

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Hey all,

    Got a response back from the CA AG to contact the FBI white collar/internet crime unit

    Please contact them here as a few of us spending a few minutes filling out the form will help the proper authorities get the relevant info to pursue criminal charges againt the Frisinas for running a Ponzi scheme and stealing over a million dollars

    http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

  • ohiostate241

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    @britdevine said...

    Hey all,

    Got a response back from the CA AG to contact the FBI white collar/internet crime unit

    Please contact them here as a few of us spending a few minutes filling out the form will help the proper authorities get the relevant info to pursue criminal charges againt the Frisinas for running a Ponzi scheme and stealing over a million dollars

    http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

    Will do this in the morning, thanks Brit I also filed the CA AG.

    Even better when the FBI is involved let’s hope enough of us fill this out to get their attention. Would love to see these criminals rot in a cell.

  • KindGuy

    Oh boy…. FBI gonna get involved now?

    Now I HAVE to bink a GPP before this hits the press again.

  • OsRitmos

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    “With no 1099 there’s no taxes to be paid.”

    Not true. All income is expected to be reported regardless of whether there is a document of record (W2, 1099, etc.) sent to the IRS.

    “When somebody is issued a 1099 a copy of that 1099 also gets sent to the IRS.”

    This is true, which is why this situation could get messier if 1099’s are sent out and someone never really got “constructive receipt” of their funds (yet it could be argued this happened in 2017). The IRS will expect to see the amount on the 1099 reported on the tax return.

    “If no 1099s are sent out in this instance not only would a player not know what he won and needs to pay taxes on but the IRS wouldn’t either.”

    Individuals should keep their own records of income. I may be guilty of this at times as well but no one should just trust the sites to report their net income for them. All income is reportable. A player on Fantasy Aces should have their own records or at worst make a best guess estimate of their income based on Paypal/bank statements. IRS would not know of this income and they may not ever find out, but if they do through an audit, you would face penalties and fees on unreported income.

    How can you pay taxes on “income” that was never there in the first place? For example, give me $1 and I’ll give you $1,000,000 in return. If I don’t deliver on that promise, do you still owe taxes on $999,999 that you “earned”?

  • theoddsmaker

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    “With no 1099 there’s no taxes to be paid.”

    Not true. All income is expected to be reported regardless of whether there is a document of record (W2, 1099, etc.) sent to the IRS.

    “When somebody is issued a 1099 a copy of that 1099 also gets sent to the IRS.”

    This is true, which is why this situation could get messier if 1099’s are sent out and someone never really got “constructive receipt” of their funds (yet it could be argued this happened in 2017). The IRS will expect to see the amount on the 1099 reported on the tax return.

    “If no 1099s are sent out in this instance not only would a player not know what he won and needs to pay taxes on but the IRS wouldn’t either.”

    Individuals should keep their own records of income. I may be guilty of this at times as well but no one should just trust the sites to report their net income for them. All income is reportable. A player on Fantasy Aces should have their own records or at worst make a best guess estimate of their income based on Paypal/bank statements. IRS would not know of this income and they may not ever find out, but if they do through an audit, you would face penalties and fees on unreported income.

    How the hell can I report any income from aces (or fantasy feud) if I legitimately have no freaking clue how much I made there without getting a 1099? (Considering their sites are wiped out with no way of accessing my history)

    All I know is roughly how much money of mine they lit on fire by being irresponsible and spending it before filing chapter 7. If it was all just Monopoly money on there the only sweet justice for me would be to simply pretend it didn’t exist and not have to pay taxes on it.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 327

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @ColonialRampage said...

    As far as this thread only being 32 pages long…

    I’ve lost a ton of enthusiasm for DFS over the past year and these scandals are a huge part of that. When DK stepped up to cover the FantasyHub situation that renewed my faith and got me interested again. Since the Aces news came out, my play has gone down even more and this may just be the last straw for me. I’m sure that are others like me out there who won’t even bother to post anything. They’ll just go away.

    As far as taxes go…
    A big part of realizing how much my attitude has changed over the course of the past year was working on taxes this weekend and seeing the FantasyFeud cashouts. That site really was the best. For anyone that played there to calculate your profit the easiest way to do that is (Withdrawals – Deposits – Change in account balance from 1/1/16 to 12/31/16). You may have to estimate that last number, but you should have bank and paypal records for the rest.

    On the overall Aces situation…
    It seems pretty clear we’re not getting anything out of Aces at this point. Maybe Cam can drop back in and shed some light. Is there hope for anything from any other source or is that pretty much the end of it?

    I think this thread will be just as long or longer than the Hub thread if the bankruptcy stretches out. I have limited information and don’t want to post “non updates,” but there is still a group actively trying to work through the bankruptcy process to get some degree of repayment to players. I do not have a grasp of the likelihood of success but I will post more as I know more.

  • breedloveboxer

    I am an optimist, and I want my 9.5k back, but for those who you are speaking of, actively trying to get some degree of repayment back, how do they expect this to occur during the bankruptcy process?

    I have done more research on this subject than I ever have wanted to, and I am a Psychologist, not a lawyer.. but research is my thing, which is the primary reason I started DFS to begin with.

    From my understanding Aces has nothing remotely close to the 1.3 mil they owe players. I am sure they have it somewhere…off shore, or in a luxurious van down by the river, but what are we going to do, split the 3k and a few laptops amongst the hundreds of players?

    After speaking with multiple attorneys after hearing of the “Preferential Payment Rule” scared out of my mind that these criminals could not only owe me 9.5k, but have their trustee potentially request funds withdrawn within the past 90 days back from players, I would like to forward some optimism and good news to you all.

    Long story short, and speaking in generalities, I have been told that Aces likely does not have a claim in this matter. And if for some reason they do, us creditors could easily fight this given the many potential defenses afforded to us by the law. So if they intend on attempting to go this route, and wasting legal fees going after players in an attempt to make their criminal operation “whole”, I will gladly take a vacation with my lawyer to fight these criminals… because we do not legally or morally owe them a penny.

    So back to the initial problem at hand… getting our money back. Cal, are you able to divulge what efforts are occurring in an attempt to get our money back?

    *Edit: I somehow missed Brit’s previous post, so I have filed a complaint. Hoping others do this as well.

  • BKLionKing

    @britdevine said...

    Hey all,

    Got a response back from the CA AG to contact the FBI white collar/internet crime unit

    Please contact them here as a few of us spending a few minutes filling out the form will help the proper authorities get the relevant info to pursue criminal charges againt the Frisinas for running a Ponzi scheme and stealing over a million dollars

    http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/

    Hi Brit,

    I am going to fill this out as well, but do we need to put the actual transaction amount that we deposited or the amount that is in our accounts? Just curious how this will pan out as the transaction amount/date will almost always be a different amount than the account amount.

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @BKLionKing said...

    Hi Brit,

    I am going to fill this out as well, but do we need to put the actual transaction amount that we deposited or the amount that is in our accounts? Just curious how this will pan out as the transaction amount/date will almost always be a different amount than the account amount.

    This is much less about your transaction amount and much more abut simply giving the FBI some information on the situation and making a complaint.

    If they receive enough requests, they will look into it, mentioning things like Ponzi Scheme and million dollar Fraud will get their attention and hopefully lead to some form of criminal investigation on the Frisina’s.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @OsRitmos said...

    How can you pay taxes on “income” that was never there in the first place? For example, give me $1 and I’ll give you $1,000,000 in return. If I don’t deliver on that promise, do you still owe taxes on $999,999 that you “earned”?

    Trust me I understand the sentiment. But it’s a sticky situation in terms of taxes and the IRS. That is why I said it would probably be best for players if the site does not send a 1099 (which would likely be inclusive of any money stuck on the site that was won in 2016). If they do send a 1099, the IRS will expect that amount to be reported. Again, talk to a tax professional, and probably best if it is someone who understands DFS (PJGuin23).

    To answer your question above, no you would not owe taxes, because of constructive receipt, which also may apply in this case. It’s just the timing of things (bankruptcy occurs in 2017, not exactly sure when withdrawals stopped) makes it a little difficult in my opinion.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @theoddsmaker said...

    How the hell can I report any income from aces (or fantasy feud) if I legitimately have no freaking clue how much I made there without getting a 1099? (Considering their sites are wiped out with no way of accessing my history)

    All I know is roughly how much money of mine they lit on fire by being irresponsible and spending it before filing chapter 7. If it was all just Monopoly money on there the only sweet justice for me would be to simply pretend it didn’t exist and not have to pay taxes on it.

    Again, I understand the sentiment and feel terrible for someone like you who had a significant amount of money lost on the site. As I said above, if it were to be reported, it would have to be done via a best guess estimate, especially for any income you may have been able to get off the site before they stopped processing withdrawals.

    At the end of the day I hope everyone gets some type of resolution in this Fantasy Aces situation, which is more important than discussing taxes, and probably the last thing you want to worry about right now.

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