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  • FatalError

    DraftKings Rep

    Over the last few weeks there has been a great deal of discussion regarding the methods by which players can enter and manage 100’s of lineups on DraftKings as well as interest in what customers can do to reduce the time commitment necessary to do so. As you all know our policy until now has been to disallow automated access or scripting on the site in all cases. After a long internal discussion we have made the decision to change our terms to allow our customers to use scripts to automate a short list of time consuming behaviors on the site.

    The permitted behaviors are:

    - Creating a contest

    - Creating a lineup

    - Editing a lineup

    - Entering a guaranteed contest

    - Withdrawing from a contest

    There is no other scripted or automated behavior that will be tolerated and we will be monitoring for any behavior that violates our terms. There will be no warnings for violations and the penalty for such a violation will be at the sole discretion of DraftKings.

    We appreciate your patience as we’ve worked to solidify a reasonable and enforceable set of rules as DFS and the size of contests has grown. We hope this will provide clarity for those looking to save some time on a day to day basis while playing on DraftKings.

    For more information on this update please visit our terms and conditions page for full language regarding access and of course feel free to email us at support@draftkings.com with any questions you have related to this change.

  • CrazyGabey

    @CrazyGabey said...

    How are we supposed to know that, being this is the first time DraftKings has publicly talked about it? And since the suspected behavior has been rampant why should we believe that it has ever been “caught” and disallowed?

    Has anyone ever been caught and disallowed?

  • Battery1975

    @CrazyGabey said...

    Yep.

    My thoughts exactly

  • deactivated53513

    I am just really surprised more players or RG’s members didn’t know this was already going on. It would lead me to believe that the DFS world is not very “Tech” savvy for the most part…… now back to writing my scripts.

  • Battery1975

    @tipandpick said...

    Dear DK,

    After four pages of comments, it is fairly clear that the the decision to allow scripting does not sit well with the experienced demographic of DFS players. Given that the veteran players are largely against this new policy, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the “non-grinder” will absolutely hate it; I might even go so far as to say that a casual player might avoid playing at DK altogether once they discover that scripts are being used to enter/edit contests against them.

    As a 40-year old person with a full-time job outside of DFS and a detailed knowledge of the inner workings of this industry, I have zero desire to learn how to run/use a script to enter/edit DFS contests. The element of skill involved in DFS should be based on choosing players within a defined salary cap, not based upon the ability to exploit computer programming. Anybody not using scripts for editing and/or late-swapping will be at a serious disadvantage under this new policy; there is no way to argue otherwise.

    As a site that has historically listened and responded to their customer base, I would implore you to reconsider your stance on scripting. The overwhelming majority (might I say it’s unanimous?) have spoken—scripts are unnecessary, genuinely unwanted, and will be a black-eye on the face of the industry.

    Signed,
    TnP

    Agreed

  • tacoface

    Are Pat Mayo or any of the major DFS hosts addressing this issue of mass lineup scripts and its implications on the industry on air?

  • kantiger77

    @tipandpick said...

    Dear DK,

    After four pages of comments, it is fairly clear that the the decision to allow scripting does not sit well with the experienced demographic of DFS players. Given that the veteran players are largely against this new policy, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the “non-grinder” will absolutely hate it; I might even go so far as to say that a casual player might avoid playing at DK altogether once they discover that scripts are being used to enter/edit contests against them.

    As a 40-year old person with a full-time job outside of DFS and a detailed knowledge of the inner workings of this industry, I have zero desire to learn how to run/use a script to enter/edit DFS contests. The element of skill involved in DFS should be based on choosing players within a defined salary cap, not based upon the ability to exploit computer programming. Anybody not using scripts for editing and/or late-swapping will be at a serious disadvantage under this new policy; there is no way to argue otherwise.

    As a site that has historically listened and responded to their customer base, I would implore you to reconsider your stance on scripting. The overwhelming majority (might I say it’s unanimous?) have spoken—scripts are unnecessary, genuinely unwanted, and will be a black-eye on the face of the industry.

    Signed,
    TnP

    Pardon me while I stand up and applaud.

  • kantiger77

    @tacoface said...

    How does this policy affect the recreational player with a DFS bankroll who plays between $50-100 a night?

    As a guy who plays $5-10 a night, I can say it impacts me. Here’s why:

    I have a total amount of respect for a guy who spends his day doing this and enters in 100-200 or more lineups running various scenarios because he wants this to be his job. In my mind, the research he’s putting into that still makes it a “skill’, as he has to account for the time necessary to enter his lineups.

    However, if all of a sudden that component is taken away and you can use scripts, said player can automatically run a ton of different lineups, massively enter them all at once, and basically have a much easier chance to hit it big, and he doesn’t have to be concerned about time. I could never compete against that.

    This industry had potential and still has potential to be really cool on a number of levels, but scripting totally takes the fun out of it. I don’t care if someone has $1 in four quarter arcades or $10K a night in this thing, scripting ruins the integrity of it.

    It would be like running computer horses without jockeys at the Kentucky Derby. Screw that.

  • kantiger77

    @ebsteelers said...

    and once the smaller players go to the other sites, those bigger plays wont have as many little guys to beat up on.. and then the money pool will be come a little funky for them.

    but i think the big reason people dont go to the small sites already is the dream of hitting for 100k off of 3 bucks.. its a greed thing.

    i’d be more than happy if i turned 2 bucks in to 1k

    Yup.

  • kantiger77

    I’d like to point out the irony of the fact that the DK Rep’s screenname is “FatalError” when in fact, that could be the subject line for his post.

  • Jeff7kv

    .

    Looks like DK swung and missed on this one, interested to see if they bother being involved in this conversation or continue to hide. Your TOS was violated, you cannot just say oh well, we’ll just forget this ever happened. Consumers aren’t that dumb.

  • Zieg30

    • 714

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @kantiger77 said...

    As a guy who plays $5-10 a night, I can say it impacts me. Here’s why:

    I have a total amount of respect for a guy who spends his day doing this and enters in 100-200 or more lineups running various scenarios because he wants this to be his job. In my mind, the research he’s putting into that still makes it a “skill’, as he has to account for the time necessary to enter his lineups.

    However, if all of a sudden that component is taken away and you can use scripts, said player can automatically run a ton of different lineups, massively enter them all at once, and basically have a much easier chance to hit it big, and he doesn’t have to be concerned about time. I could never compete against that.

    This industry had potential and still has potential to be really cool on a number of levels, but scripting totally takes the fun out of it. I don’t care if someone has $1 in four quarter arcades or $10K a night in this thing, scripting ruins the integrity of it.

    It would be like running computer horses without jockeys at the Kentucky Derby. Screw that.

    Why is “time” such a big part of the “skill” component in your eyes?

    That player using a script in your hypo still has to do the same research and pick the right players. Using a script, he now can just either spend more time with his family, or do something non-DFS related, or research a bit longer.

  • meerkatmreow

    @Zieg30 said...

    Why is “time” such a big part of the “skill” component in your eyes?

    That player using a script in your hypo still has to do the same research and pick the right players. Using a script, he now can just either spend more time with his family, or do something non-DFS related, or research a bit longer.

    You don’t understand, the script is magical computer AI that does everything for you, research included. Its cheating just like using formulas in excel instead of manually entering numbers, which takes skill

  • RU18QT

    • Blogger of the Month

    it takes a lot for me to post on the forum these days and I’m sure my comment will get blended in the rest. But last time I checked, DFS is legal because it’s considered a game of skill and not luck. Last time I checked having a large bankroll and clicking a button to get hundreds of combinations isn’t skill.

    Now the power house DFS players are going to be computer programers as opposed to sport fans. Yahoo is already getting a lot heat for allowing “gambling” by mainstream media and eventually someone will try to put an end to DFS and use this as their main argument. When they are presenting their case in a court room to how DFS isn’t a game of skill and show how easy it is to make hundreds of Lineups with the click of a button I can see a jury seeing their point.

    I had a feeling DFS was too good to be true and it looks like the downfall of this industry has just been introduce

  • leafs93

    @Zieg30 said...

    Why is “time” such a big part of the “skill” component in your eyes?

    That player using a script in your hypo still has to do the same research and pick the right players. Using a script, he now can just either spend more time with his family, or do something non-DFS related, or research a bit longer.

    2 guys are playing 300 nba dfs lineups in the last 2 minutes before NBA lock player 1 can run a computer algo to account for all the late news thats broke and optimize all of his lineups instantly while the 2nd guy gets to use quick player replace and maybe optimize a couple teams by hand, the ev is now greatly reduced for player 2 that had run his Algo hours ago with expected lineups and manually entered all of his teams hence the skill no longer being in roster construction and management but in the skill of knowing how to computer code, dout the UIGA had any idea this is what they where opening the door to years ago, at least draftkings policy is at least opening up the tool to everyone it sounds like and my example is more geared towards FDs policy.

  • einars

    @leafs93 said...

    2 guys are playing 300 nba dfs lineups in the last 2 minutes before NBA lock player 1 can run a computer algo to account for all the late news thats broke and optimize all of his lineups instantly while the 2nd guy gets to use quick player replace and maybe optimize a couple teams by hand, the ev is now greatly reduced for player 2 that had run his Algo hours ago with expected lineups and manually entered all of his teams hence the skill no longer being in roster construction and management but in the skill of knowing how to computer code, dout the UIGA had any idea this is what they where opening the door to and draftkings policy is at least opening it up to everyone my example is more geared towards FDs policy.

    next time just say “listen to dan’s podcast” :D….seriously tho…anyone on this thread should listen to his podcast

  • meerkatmreow

    @leafs93 said...

    2 guys are playing 300 nba dfs lineups in the last 2 minutes before NBA lock player 1 can run a computer algo to account for all the late news thats broke and optimize all of his lineups instantly while the 2nd guy gets to use quick player replace and maybe optimize a couple teams by hand, the ev is now greatly reduced for player 2 that had run his Algo hours ago with expected lineups and manually entered all of his teams hence the skill no longer being in roster construction and management but in the skill of knowing how to computer code, dout the UIGA had any idea this is what they where opening the door to years ago, at least draftkings policy is at least opening up the tool to everyone it sounds like and my example is more geared towards FDs policy.

    2 carpenters have to drive in 300 screws. One painstakingly uses his screwdriver, the other has a cordless drill. 10 minutes before they go home, they realized 100 are in the wrong spot. Screwdriver guy complains that it’s unfair the other guy can fix his so quickly, but doesn’t know how to use a cordless drill and is unwilling to learn.

    I do agree FD’s statement is puzzling. I think DK handled it better, especially if they develop an API for those functions that give good hooks for programmers (such as those at RG and other third party DFS sites) can use to access those functions and make them available to their users.

  • mabrla

    Really kills the fun for those of us who play the big GPP’s with a single shot. If they don’t put an end to it I’m going to have to stop playing bc single entry GPP’s don’t have a big enough prize pool.

    It’s already tough enough competing with a small bankroll. I could at least be ok with the fact that the pros had to manually enter.

    Threads merged

  • vo1atile

    @kantiger77 said...

    As a guy who plays $5-10 a night, I can say it impacts me. Here’s why:

    I have a total amount of respect for a guy who spends his day doing this and enters in 100-200 or more lineups running various scenarios because he wants this to be his job. In my mind, the research he’s putting into that still makes it a “skill’, as he has to account for the time necessary to enter his lineups.

    However, if all of a sudden that component is taken away and you can use scripts, said player can automatically run a ton of different lineups, massively enter them all at once, and basically have a much easier chance to hit it big, and he doesn’t have to be concerned about time. I could never compete against that.

    This industry had potential and still has potential to be really cool on a number of levels, but scripting totally takes the fun out of it. I don’t care if someone has $1 in four quarter arcades or $10K a night in this thing, scripting ruins the integrity of it.

    It would be like running computer horses without jockeys at the Kentucky Derby. Screw that.

    Well said.

    The best solution IMO would be for the sites to provide these scripts themselves or to have a list of approved third party scripts which users can choose to utilize. I understand the bottom line for the sites is to increase their numbers but there is a way to do that while keeping the even playing field.

  • detroittigers44

    I received an email yesterday from FanDuel stating that they were expanding the prize pool and size of their $2 single-entry tournament… I think they have noticed and are adjusting as well, you might see some bigger single-entry tourney’s showing up.

  • leafs93

    @meerkatmreow said...

    2 carpenters have to drive in 300 screws. One painstakingly uses his screwdriver, the other has a cordless drill. 10 minutes before they go home, they realized 100 are in the wrong spot. Screwdriver guy complains that it’s unfair the other guy can fix his so quickly, but doesn’t know how to use a cordless drill and is unwilling to learn.

    I do agree FD’s statement is puzzling. I think DK handled it better, especially if they develop an API for those functions that give good hooks for programmers (such as those at RG and other third party DFS sites) can use to access those functions and make them available to their users.

    carpenter 1 wouldnt have a job in the 21st century because its common practice to use a cordless drill for carpentry, up until this point is was expected the playing field in gpp tournaments was level ground with edges gain through being well prepared each night however you accomplished that (spreadsheets, algo, pay for projections, rg shows, articles, watching the games) for when the late news hit so you (with that pink shit in your head) could best optimize the # teams you felt comfortable playing. Now once all the initial programs are set up the amount of thinking and human error involved is greatly reduced. On top of that not only are they admitting this has been going on for some unknown amount of time, instead of taking measures to integrate it into the draftkings website they are saying here if you know what your doing or have the money to build the system yourself go nuts, for the rest of you sorry im sure youll be able to pay a monthly fee for this somewhere.

  • ChrisGimino

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Think about the stock market… Can you imagine if the Duke brothers had a script?

    http://youtu.be/S8H2FIf1oH4
    (Note: some of you not yet born when this movie came out)

    We’ll be inviting the creation of “high volume trading: DFS edition” If we don’t address the real issue … Which in my opinion is unlimited multi-entry.

    Cap the most important contests at a fair number , and let the lineup editing software sales commence.

  • leafs93

    @detroittigers44 said...

    I received an email yesterday from FanDuel stating that they were expanding the prize pool and size of their $2 single-entry tournament… I think they have noticed and are adjusting as well, you might see some bigger single-entry tourney’s showing up.

    the fact they rake single entry GPPs at the level of multi entry GPPs is the biggest biggest biggest gripe, they are literately going out of there way to charge a important subset of there user base at larger amount. 3% dif. from reg. cash games adds up and has always bugged me alot.

  • CDonaldson83

    Lets be honest.. this is the Condia and MaxDalury Rule…. We all know damn well there not putting in 1,000’s of lineups each day by themselves clicking the mouse. Those two specifically are using Scripts to enter different lineup combos based on their algorithm projection spreadsheets.

  • emac

    @CDonaldson83 said...

    Those two specifically are using Scripts to enter different lineup combos

    FWIW, Condia usually runs just one lineup per site.

  • emac

    @ChrisGimino said...

    Think about the stock market… Can you imagine if the Duke brothers had a script?

    http://youtu.be/S8H2FIf1oH4
    (Note: some of you not yet born when this movie came out)

    One of my all-time favorite rainy day cable movies!

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