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  • mike291md

    What is the general consensus on people multi-entering the same lineup from a single username into a tourney? Just tonight, in the NBA $0.25 Arcade, a guy takes 21 of the first 22 winning spots because he had 21 entries of his 1 lineup. So 21 spots of prize money are now cut into by a single lineup being multi-entered by a single user. I think this is part of what is killing the fun of doing these tourneys. You’re not just against someone with 20 lineups that are different, you are also against guys who max enter the same lineup 20 times.

    Aside from single entry, would really like to see tourneys offered where a single username cannot multi-enter the exact same lineup combination more than ONCE. A user should not take up a large percentage of the prize pool with 1 LINEUP combination. To me, that’s ridiculous and it looks terrible.

    Tonight’s tourney:

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/52554349?uc=991580006

    username: jcjones1111

  • zline34

    Why would you be mad about a train? He had a lineup he felt really good about and didn’t want to deviate from it… Do you know how hard it is to get a top finish with a train? Good on him.

  • mike291md

    Am I bitter? Yes, I had a lineup at 315, 6 points behind the winner that, instead of being top 10, is pushed to 30th some place because some guy entered the winning combination 20 times. I’m not just posting ONLY because I’m bitter about that, but I’m posting because this is a bad look. It’s already hard enough to get lineups just to place in the money in GPPs, but now you also have to fight off 1 lineup taking up 20 spots. This now pushes the bubble to make the money further back.

    If you have a winning combo, congrats. But, do you really need the first 20 places in a GPP? C’mon bruh. In poker, this would be like me getting pocket Aces and getting to play it against multiple tables all at once and just raking in profit.

  • mike291md

    Is this not a bad look when a single lineup combo takes up a large portion of the prize pool? Am I on an island here? I’m not mad that the person won, I’m more mad he or she won the first 20 SPOTS.

  • makeitra1n

    Ask ClevelandGod on Twitter what he thinks about that lol

  • emoney1214

    I understand why you are mad in this situation, but do you understand that putting 20 identical lineups in a tourney is a bad long term strategy? Not only do you split your own winnings (hypothetically he would have won a ton more had he put that lineup in 20 different tournaments), but it’s also a -ev strategy. Most likely he didn’t have time to change all his lineups after a late scratch or just exported one lineup to all of his others at the last second. This is much more annoying in multi-entry 50/50s or double ups, which is why I avoid those.

  • mike291md

    @emoney1214 said...

    I understand why you are mad in this situation, but do you understand that putting 20 identical lineups in a tourney is a bad long term strategy? Not only do you split your own winnings (hypothetically he would have won a ton more had he put that lineup in 20 different tournaments), but it’s also a -ev strategy. Most likely he didn’t have time to change all his lineups after a late scratch or just exported one lineup to all of his others at the last second. This is much more annoying in multi-entry 50/50s or double ups, which is why I avoid those.

    Fair point. Wouldn’t the overall better solution be to try and eliminate trains altogether? I don’t see why someone needs to re-enter one lineup 20 plus times into one tournament. Then say the prize pool is $1,000 total, they end up winning say 80% of that prize pool and simultaneously push lineups OUT the money. This makes GPP’s, which are already a MAJOR longshot to win, even more so of a longshot. Even more reason not to play those because they are so toxic due to issues like this one.

    Your last sentence indicated perfectly that these lineup trains only hurt the overall incentive of playing a contest. Why should money line and reward money be pushed WAY BACK because a person has to enter 1 lineup a multitude of times? Enter that lineup into different contests. Don’t ruin the prize structure (which are already top heavy) of GPP’s.

    Sorry, I gotta resort to another poker analogy here but…what if you enter a 200 person poker tourney, 10 places pay, and a single guy wins all 10 places somehow and everyone else gets nothing. Would you be happy with that tournament? Would you play that tournament again? I just don’t see how this type of stuff is going to continue to draw in customers long-term.

    To please the 1%, you ultimately end up pissing off the other 99% who play.

  • KindGuy

  • KindGuy

  • mike291md

    There goes our winner taking his prize money LOL

    Great look for business.

  • DSofM

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    This has to be the dumbest post in awhile… I thought it was gonna be a CA/PG thread. There is literally no difference to your bottom line between that user running 21 unique lines or 21 identical lines. It doesn’t look bad on their end either.

  • mike291md

    @JoeFlacco05 said...

    This has to be the dumbest post in awhile… I thought it was gonna be a CA/PG thread. There is literally no difference to your bottom line between that user running 21 unique lines or 21 identical lines. It doesn’t look bad on their end either.

    The heck are you talking about? No difference to the bottom line? If the user in question were forced to enter 21 unique lineups he wouldn’t of had 21 lineups placed in the top end of the prize pool. GPP prize pools are extremely top heavy. When you have a lineup train taking 80% of the prize money and pushing a bunch of other lineup combinations OUT OF THE MONEY, then I say YES IT HAS AN ABSOLUTE AFFECT on the bottom line.

    You think people aren’t eventually going to get tired of entering contests they know this takes place in? Like a previous poster mentioned, this is also occurring in 50/50s. Having a lineup train take up a majority of the prize payouts ARE IN NO WAY A GOOD LOOK. You should not be allowed to enter more than 1 of the same lineup combination into a GPP. They are friggin’ hard enough just to place in without even factoring in the lineup trains because of all the combinations people are putting together.

    I have several buddies who are nuts about fantasy sports but they stopped playing daily fantasy a long time ago. Why? Because of stuff like this that makes the tournaments nearly impossible to win any money in. First off, you need an amazing lineup JUST TO PLACE IN THE MONEY. And now you throw in lineup trains taking up 20 payout spots per train. The harder and less rewarding GPPs become the less people are going to play. Long-term this will kill this industry if they don’t figure out how to make the tourneys attractive for the small-time player, too.

  • Kjwhalen77

    So instead of $4 you’d of won $20?

  • DSofM

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    @mike291md said...

    The heck are you talking about? No difference to the bottom line? If the user in question were forced to enter 21 unique lineups he wouldn’t of had 21 lineups placed in the top end of the prize pool. GPP prize pools are extremely top heavy. When you have a lineup train taking 80% of the prize money and pushing a bunch of other lineup combinations OUT OF THE MONEY, then I say YES IT HAS AN ABSOLUTE AFFECT on the bottom line.

    You think people aren’t eventually going to get tired of entering contests they know this takes place in? Like a previous poster mentioned, this is also occurring in 50/50s. Having a lineup train take up a majority of the prize payouts ARE IN NO WAY A GOOD LOOK. You should not be allowed to enter more than 1 of the same lineup combination into a GPP. They are friggin’ hard enough just to place in without even factoring in the lineup trains because of all the combinations people are putting together.

    I have several buddies who are nuts about fantasy sports but they stopped playing daily fantasy a long time ago. Why? Because of stuff like this that makes the tournaments nearly impossible to win any money in. First off, you need an amazing lineup JUST TO PLACE IN THE MONEY. And now you throw in lineup trains taking up 20 payout spots per train. The harder and less rewarding GPPs become the less people are going to play. Long-term this will kill this industry if they don’t figure out how to make the tourneys attractive for the small-time player, too.

    You do realize you can do this too right? It’s some secret cheat code. Also I wasn’t talking about this specific contest in regards to effecting your bottom line, but a theoretical long term where you could account for thousands of slates of variance. Obviously in the short term it did hurt you, but since you seem to think it’s a great and unbeatable strategy I’d recommend slamming in trains every chance you get. You probably also think that pros just run max lineups and win everyday and the game is unbeatable yet keep playing, so take a loan out and MME as well. You’re mad about nothing and the only reason you brought this up is because you happened to sniff a GPP bink and had a train knock you down a few quarters. Sorry to say but people doing this, in general, make tournaments better for you to play. If you can’t see that you should probably just stop playing if a train smashing a tourney is going to set you off.

  • TeamTwerk

    You play poker? Didn’t you ever hear about not being results oriented? The train strategy is a bad one for the reasons people have already very clearly explained. That’s it, end of story. What happened in this one outcome doesn’t matter. A much more likely outcome would’ve been this guy’s train had the nuts with 1 bust and min cashes all lineups and you’re happy he didn’t switch things up a tiny bit to take 1st from you.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Your complaint is ridiculous. That user could have easily finished in last place. Turns out his/her single lineup was just better than yours and he/she either made the ballsy call to enter it multiple times or just happened to forget about it and lucked into having multiple entries finishing first.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @JoeFlacco05 said...

    This has to be the dumbest post in awhile… I thought it was gonna be a CA/PG thread. There is literally no difference to your bottom line between that user running 21 unique lines or 21 identical lines. It doesn’t look bad on their end either.

    Opponents running trains in tournaments helps your bottom line. I assume OP is new to DFS but I would suggest learning about variance and how to not be results oriented sooner rather than later or it’s going to be an incredibly frustrating game

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Purchased lineup trains in single entry cash games is in no way equitable to a single user using the same lineup in a multi-entry GPP.

    You can not like it, I get that, but this thread just comes off as a tantrum.
    And I say that as someone who plays single entries in $1 or less games…not someone who multi-entries it has a ton of money.

  • mike291md

    You all ever heard of MaxDelury?? Yea I bet you have. Tell him your theories on variance and negative -ev while he’s counting his profits.

    You wanna do max entries? Fine. But they should be different lineup combinations so that ONE LINEUP COMBO doesn’t take up friggin’ 80% of the prize pool from people. It’s a bad look. People who have their lineups all pushed out of either good money or any money at all don’t wanna hear how BALLSY it is to enter a single lineup combo 20 times so you should deserve to take a majority of the prize pool/winnings in a multi-thousand GPP contest.

    Just like there are limits on bankroll buy-ins on poker tables, there should be limits on stuff like this so you don’t have a final table with ONE GUY sitting there at the end. That doesn’t look good at all. It will be stuff like that that will drive people away from playing daily fantasy if they don’t start offering tourneys that are aimed at protecting player interests’ so prize pools aren’t cut into like this. Like I said, it’s already almost impossible enough to win ANY MONEY in a GPP just because of the different lineup combinations, but now you also have lineup trains that are godly.

    The draftkings commercials should show a guy entering one lineup combo 20 times. I bet that would look fantastic to people interested in playing.

  • bhdevault

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    @mike291md said...

    You all ever heard of MaxDelury?? Yea I bet you have. Tell him your theories on variance and negative -ev while he’s counting his profits.

    You wanna do max entries? Fine. But they should be different lineup combinations so that ONE LINEUP COMBO doesn’t take up friggin’ 80% of the prize pool from people. It’s a bad look. People who have their lineups all pushed out of either good money or any money at all don’t wanna hear how BALLSY it is to enter a single lineup combo 20 times so you should deserve to take a majority of the prize pool/winnings in a multi-thousand GPP contest.

    Just like there are limits on bankroll buy-ins on poker tables, there should be limits on stuff like this so you don’t have a final table with ONE GUY sitting there at the end. That doesn’t look good at all. It will be stuff like that that will drive people away from playing daily fantasy if they don’t start offering tourneys that are aimed at protecting the guy who doesn’t have to be BALLSY (You mean wealthy) enough to win.

    Enter single entry GPP’s. Most of the complaints around DFS are negated by those.

  • jmo26

    @mike291md said...

    Am I on an island here?

    Yes, you are.

    As bhdevault stated above though, if you want to avoid trains (or multi-entry in general), there’s an easy solution: single-entry contests.

  • mike291md

    @bhdevault said...

    Enter single entry GPP’s. Most of the complaints around DFS are negated by those.

    Yes but what about for players who don’t mind tourneys with multi-entry that just don’t want lineup trains in said tourneys??

    I’m fine with being on an island in the forums. I guarantee you the average Joe that has his lineup pushed out of a tourney because of a lineup train isn’t feeling your arguments about negative ev and variance while some user is making a MAJOR cut into an already top-heavy prize pool.

    You guys keep on defending tools who ruin daily fantasy with stuff like this and don’t be mad when there is no site for you to play on down the road.

  • Shipmymoney

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    @mike291md said...

    You all ever heard of MaxDelury?? Yea I bet you have. Tell him your theories on variance and negative -ev while he’s counting his profits.

    You wanna do max entries? Fine. But they should be different lineup combinations so that ONE LINEUP COMBO doesn’t take up friggin’ 80% of the prize pool from people. It’s a bad look. People who have their lineups all pushed out of either good money or any money at all don’t wanna hear how BALLSY it is to enter a single lineup combo 20 times so you should deserve to take a majority of the prize pool/winnings in a multi-thousand GPP contest.

    Just like there are limits on bankroll buy-ins on poker tables, there should be limits on stuff like this so you don’t have a final table with ONE GUY sitting there at the end. That doesn’t look good at all. It will be stuff like that that will drive people away from playing daily fantasy if they don’t start offering tourneys that are aimed at protecting player interests’ so prize pools aren’t cut into like this. Like I said, it’s already almost impossible enough to win ANY MONEY in a GPP just because of the different lineup combinations, but now you also have lineup trains that are godly.

    The draftkings commercials should show a guy entering one lineup combo 20 times. I bet that would look fantastic to people interested in playing.

    This has to be a troll at this point. Maxdalury (SaahilSud) didn’t run trains. He max entered with 150 separate lineups. I’m very confident he would agree that running trains in GPPs is -EV. Also, you say it is nearly impossible to win any money in GPPs because of the different lineup combos but also it is impossible because of trains. Make up your mind

  • Messiah717

    Not for nothing but if you beat that one lineup entered 20 times this wouldn’t be an issue.

  • jjwd

    Bottom line Mike291… you got unlucky, but what happened to you is very rare. Most people think trains in GPP is a bad strategy because tournaments are top heavy. Therefore diversifying your lineups gives you an advantage when trying to bink one. When people max enter, they often rotate around a certain core of players. A train essentially provides you with a minuscule core of players. In my opinion a lot of posters here are too mean-spirited when answering questions. But many DFS concepts are complicated or counter-intuitive, even to a veteran player. Keep your head up buddy. GL

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