INDUSTRY FORUM

  • Mphst18

    I am using the analysis of data to draw a conclusion and ask questions in the alleged scenario (the data is not alleged it is actual data). My views are not to be interpreted as fact but to allow individuals to determine if they feel they are playing a game with integrity or one that is monitoring for violations of entry limits and rules.

    Is this a form of circumventing Entry limits and or an alternate form of multi accounting (regardless of if they are actually two individuals)

    If two brothers or individuals take 50% of each others winnings and agree to risk the same amount every night (enter the same contests with the same number of entries) is this a violation guidelines/rule. Of note they may not technically be “pooling entry fees” as brother A does not send brother B any money for entry fees they just sum up or net profit at the end of the night and reconcile.

    They max enter every gpp mlb contest (for the max entries below 150 they don’t overlap entries (they may also not overlap for 150 but I am not digging through all that data as DK supposedly has a game integrity department that is supposed to be monitoring this stuff).

    Let’s look at 9/13 2016 data, the data for 9/6 shows the same as well and we can look at 9/20 data when that’s available: (my guess here it’s the same every day but just taking the Tue slates as that’s the big prize for DK)

    MLB $600K Power Hitter ($444, 45 max) – Chipolteaddict 45 entries, papagates 45 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $30K Warning Track ($150, 3 max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $5K Deep Mini Moonshot ($3, 50 max) – Chipolteaddict 50 entries, papagates 50 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $10K Slider ($3, 3max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $150K Payoff Pitch ($27, 150 max) – Chipolteaddict 150 entries, papagates 150 entries (I am not digging through 150 to determine overlap or not, other people are supposedly paid to do this)

  • KindGuy

    The problem with hendog’s approach is his/her’s refusal to apply qualitative knowledge/data . It makes sense given hendog’s background and I will concede that the arguments presented are pretty strong. But there is a history here and we can’t ignore it because of the lack of persuasive data in this current scenario. The DFS community knows these guys are brothers.

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

  • timusbr

    @Bighouse55 said...

    Take time to add up their weekly rake, it is astronomical. With their employee base and minimal brick and mortar they are very profitable. Why do you think smart business men were willing to invest?

    The only ones painting them as poor are those who defend rake increases.

    far be it from me to defend the owner of a gaming site. Actually im not. they spend lots of money too. The rake could be a golden goose if someone doesnt kill it. The DFS companies are the short sited ones by needing to increase profits instead of focusing on participation. They cater to the sharks because the sharks are big money to them.

    But stop with this talk of class action LOL i would rather play dfs and have fun then not have dfs and get a whopping 23 cents back as my participation to a class action suit.

  • Bay101

    Only way to stop this is to decrease the number of entries and banning all types of scripting.

  • hendog

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @elementasrat said...

    The problem with hendog’s approach is his/her’s refusal to apply qualitative knowledge/data . It makes sense given hendog’s background and I will concede that the arguments presented are pretty strong. But there is a history here and we can’t ignore it because of the lack of persuasive data in this current scenario. The DFS community knows these guys are brothers.

    If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

    The problem with this argument is that the evidence you are relying on is that they are known to work together. But how many other high profile players are known to work together? As I understand it, it is not against the rules to use the same player projections and the same lineup creation tools. If this werw against the rules there would be no RotoGrinders.

    Of course the allegation is that they are working together in a way that counts as collusion. But there is no evidence for that specifically. Two pieces of bad evidence do not add up to good evidence. The “work together/are brothers” piece and the “lineups are consistent with a collusion narrative” piece are equally unconvincing taken together as they are taken separately.

  • Mphst18

    Meanwhile just a day after it was unintentional that they were sitting 3 mans they go and do it again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/saahilsud/status/780497705806270465

  • Mphst18

    @hendog said...

    The problem with this argument is that the evidence you are relying on is that they are known to work together. But how many other high profile players are known to work together? As I understand it, it is not against the rules to use the same player projections and the same lineup creation tools. If this werw against the rules there would be no RotoGrinders.

    Of course the allegation is that they are working together in a way that counts as collusion. But there is no evidence for that specifically. Two pieces of bad evidence do not add up to good evidence. The “work together/are brothers” piece and the “lineups are consistent with a collusion narrative” piece are equally unconvincing taken together as they are taken separately.

    Yes Mir/Daut were equally guilty in the golf MM as were raging Philip and mazwa.

  • thorpedoboom

    Mphst18 how old are you and what do you do for a living? Can u please answer these questions? Posting in this forum all day long every day and questioning people’s integrity all the time does not count as a job. So don’t tell me that please.

  • AWoo

    @thorpedoboom said...

    Mphst18 how old are you and what do you do for a living? Can u please answer these questions? Posting in this forum all day long every day and questioning people’s integrity all the time does not count as a job. So don’t tell me that please.

    That honestly shouldn’t matter or even asked tbh. This forum should stay on topic.

  • crazypaul

    @thorpedoboom said...

    Mphst18 how old are you and what do you do for a living? Can u please answer these questions? Posting in this forum all day long every day and questioning people’s integrity all the time does not count as a job. So don’t tell me that please.

    This is 100% unnecessary.

  • phillygamecox

    @Mphst18 said...

    Meanwhile just a day after it was unintentional that they were sitting 3 mans they go and do it again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/saahilsud/status/780497705806270465

    something key in that twitter note by Papa – he says “you have been playing US in 3 mans…” Emphasis on the “US.” :)

  • pabloplyr

    I got two solutions. 1. One should play on FD and the other DK. 2. We make better Lineups. Did they break the DK Guidelines Yes. Should they be punished YES. But let’s remember in America we give immunity to the “Wells Fargo’s” of the world while punishing those who rob because they lost money because of Wel’ls Fargo. (If that makes sense) I have heard stories of DKs restricting, banning account because of one reason of the other from non pros. I don’t think they punish PG and CA unless forced to by media outlets. At the end of the day their plays, exposure made sense. Your players still need to perform. If the Chargers stopped Luck on his GW TD drive then neither would place high as that was a 16.7 pt swing for TY Hilton. 6.7 pts for reception yards +3 for over 100 yds 6 pts for TD 1 pt for reception. And a 9.68 point swing for Luck. 4 for TD +3 for over 300 yds and 2.68 for the 67 yd passing TD. Russell Wilson was a great play vs the Niners and look he got hurt early. I think they colluded but the reason we are talking about it this week and not the first two weeks of the Milly Maker is because their plays played well. I played one LU on Fantasy Aces and my worse plays were Eli and T Benjamin. 8 of my 10 plays hit. They all played well. And I was lucky enough to put them all in 1 LU. At the end of the day if a random newbie won the Milly no one would even talk about PG and CA. But for the recordey should be banned for breaking DK Guidelines. I didnt just come up with the rules DK’s did.

  • Mphst18

    This thread started last week Prior to the MM.

  • hambazaza

    RG Blog Program Manager, 2014 RG Party Beer Pong Champion

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    @Mphst18 said...

    Ahahahah, you know what they had before and still have during community guidelines that are actually more relevant in a court of law then guidelines; TERMS OF SERVICE.

    Judge forget the video of me robbing the store that was before they had a no robbery allowed sign in their window so that video, not relevant.

    terms of service had something against working together to build lineups? notice these weren’t introduced this year as “rules of conduct”, they were introduced as community guidelines.

    of course I didn’t write my post to try to convince you of anything. so keep laughing.

  • Mphst18

    @hambazaza said...

    terms of service had something against working together to build lineups? notice these weren’t introduced this year as “rules of conduct”, they were introduced as community guidelines.

    of course I didn’t write my post to try to convince you of anything. so keep laughing.

    They are available for you to read and utilize scientific reasoning to interpret.

    You realize when you signed up you agreed to the TOS

    Yes exactly which is why I was laughing that you want to discredit a video because it was before “guidelines” but not before TOS.

  • escot4

    • x2

      $2M Prize Winner

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    As someone else mentioned before, it looks like maybe they’re being investigated since I don’t see them in anything on DK today but they still are in FD contests.

  • timusbr

    im curious Mphst18, what prompted you to look at their lineups in depth. I recently found out it is a fast simple process but why and why them?

    I noticed in following different reaches of this thread that the players we all know (have names we recognize) all pretty much take this info as given. no surprise or outrage or misgivings. They just dont care.

    except for the 3 people games. and the brothers dont deny playing them. why would they play 100 $1 games instead of H2H? they are wrong to be semi-pro but want to steal $1 from the sucker. I DARE ANYONE TO DEFEND THEM ON THIS.

    and anyone who thinks they dont collude I wonder how many H2H contests they play against each other? if the answer is 0 nuff said.

  • Mphst18

    For H2H DK rightfully IMO refunds your money if you have the same exact lineup against someone ( they say you didn’t get an experience, u have to email them to get the rake back) however if you tie someone with different lineups they keep the rake as you had an experience(not sure I agree with this but haven’t thought about it too much)

    This though does mean that teams who run identical cash game lineups don’t have to block each other cause if at the end they get marxhed against each other they just email and it’s a wash, no lost rake.

  • Mphst18

    @timusbr said...

    im curious Mphst18, what prompted you to look at their lineups in depth. I recently found out it is a fast simple process but why and why them?

    I noticed in following different reaches of this thread that the players we all know (have names we recognize) all pretty much take this info as given. no surprise or outrage or misgivings. They just dont care.

    except for the 3 people games. and the brothers dont deny playing them. why would they play 100 $1 games instead of H2H? they are wrong to be semi-pro but want to steal $1 from the sucker. I DARE ANYONE TO DEFEND THEM ON THIS.

    and anyone who thinks they dont collude I wonder how many H2H contests they play against each other? if the answer is 0 nuff said.

    I want too see what the data shows along with the history of the players to form my opinion and allow Others to see the data to make their own opinions whether or not they agree with my thoughts.

    Some are easy like MIR/Daut clearly separated their lineups by salary cap.

    Mazwa and raging Philip used identical core but Rangerc gets yeh credit for that as he found it.

    Yes if you have excel skills you can get at the data with some work, alternatively you can use fantasy fanatics but for NFL ownership analysis they want you to sign up.

  • deactivated84892

    @Bay101 said...

    Only way to stop this is to decrease the number of entries and banning all types of scripting.

    This thread has nothing to do with scripting. Scripting is an easily accessible approach in DFS today and noone is faulting the subjects on scripting (if they did).

    As far as decreasing the number of entries. Last year, Max Entry was 500. This year it’s 150. So DK dulled down a perceived edge and weeks before NFL season started they rolled out the Community Guidelines. Only for someone(s) to blatantly ignore the vision of the guidelines.

    Action has to be taken.

  • TwoSHAE

    @Bay101 said...

    Only way to stop this is to decrease the number of entries and banning all types of scripting.

    No. This would only increase the incentive to skirt the rules which would in turn make the problem worse.

  • dowjones206

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel CFB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    DK Clearly Doesn’t Love DFS People. Dk Gives 0 Fuks About Anything But Their Bottom Line.

  • mccoolio

    So…who wants to team up in the $3 play action this week?

  • Sidster

    Yeah. I quit playing fan duel h2h’s. I think they should be set by how much you win. If you win x amount you cannot play people h2h who have won less. etc.

  • ThatStunna

    • 58

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    • Ranked #48

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    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @timusbr said...

    and anyone who thinks they dont collude I wonder how many H2H contests they play against each other? if the answer is 0 nuff said.

    What does that have to do with collusion? I’m colluding with SaahilSud because I don’t join his head to heads?

    This thread would be much more effective if people kept their focus on the issue at hand and cut out extraneous nonsense.

  • smurg

    Here are their ownerships’ from this weekend’s millionaire maker. I didn’t see anything stand out in particular.

    papagates: http://i.imgur.com/H5UjVRL.png
    ChipotleAddict: http://i.imgur.com/xKz49zh.png

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