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  • Mphst18

    I am using the analysis of data to draw a conclusion and ask questions in the alleged scenario (the data is not alleged it is actual data). My views are not to be interpreted as fact but to allow individuals to determine if they feel they are playing a game with integrity or one that is monitoring for violations of entry limits and rules.

    Is this a form of circumventing Entry limits and or an alternate form of multi accounting (regardless of if they are actually two individuals)

    If two brothers or individuals take 50% of each others winnings and agree to risk the same amount every night (enter the same contests with the same number of entries) is this a violation guidelines/rule. Of note they may not technically be “pooling entry fees” as brother A does not send brother B any money for entry fees they just sum up or net profit at the end of the night and reconcile.

    They max enter every gpp mlb contest (for the max entries below 150 they don’t overlap entries (they may also not overlap for 150 but I am not digging through all that data as DK supposedly has a game integrity department that is supposed to be monitoring this stuff).

    Let’s look at 9/13 2016 data, the data for 9/6 shows the same as well and we can look at 9/20 data when that’s available: (my guess here it’s the same every day but just taking the Tue slates as that’s the big prize for DK)

    MLB $600K Power Hitter ($444, 45 max) – Chipolteaddict 45 entries, papagates 45 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $30K Warning Track ($150, 3 max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $5K Deep Mini Moonshot ($3, 50 max) – Chipolteaddict 50 entries, papagates 50 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $10K Slider ($3, 3max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $150K Payoff Pitch ($27, 150 max) – Chipolteaddict 150 entries, papagates 150 entries (I am not digging through 150 to determine overlap or not, other people are supposedly paid to do this)

  • Mphst18

    @hendog said...

    They are accused of doing something like “You play the Luck stacks, I’ll play the Stafford stacks.” It is possible to get this exposure another way, for example they could have said “I like Luck and Stafford; I’m playing each 50%” and the other replying “I agree; I am doing the same”.

    you just love to gloss over all the other stuff, and then not look at everything in totality, this is not an isolated incident to the NFL MM for these two.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Heads up that I’m lobbying DK to make a statement and give us more regular communication/clarification on the Community Guidelines.

    Here’s my take:

    Whether or not ChipotleAddict/Papagates are splitting money, this is a bad look for the industry at a time when we’re under the microscope. However, it’s important for people to understand that these two are only violating the guidelines if they are splitting the money. Making lineups together is not a violation, but colluding to surpass the 150 entry limit and then splitting profits would be. That puts DK in a situation where they must know if these two are splitting the money to have real proof, which is obviously not easy.

    There is no simple answer for how to deal with this. Hopefully threads like this one can help bring an answer forward. It is clear to me that status quo is not the answer. The sites need to be proactive about addressing these issues and even more proactive about communicating with the players. Two years ago that was easy – Jon Aguiar and other reps could just interact with players right here on the forum. That’s not possible in today’s environment, but it should be possible to have more structured/scheduled statements, interviews, etc. That’s the best way to bridge the growing gap between the players and sites.

  • rainbowtroutman

    @Mphst18 said...

    However this puts the sites exposed to more overlay risk and decreasing revenue so they won’t do it. IMO Its a race for the sites, can they skirt integrity long enough to continue to grow revenues and reach IPO before being shut down. Post IPO all management is cashing out so no real long term care past IPO.

    Bingo!!!! As far as CA and PG they already won. Can’t take the money back now.

  • smurg

    @Mphst18 said...

    you just love to gloss over all the other stuff, and then not look at everything in totality, this is not an isolated incident to the NFL MM for these two.

    Post some concrete evidence from MLB (or link me to previous posts) and other sports you referenced earlier in thread. I would like to take a look at any data you have. All I have seen previously is word of mouth that they may have split player groups or some other vague accusations.

  • Mphst18

    @Cal said...

    Heads up that I’m lobbying DK to make a statement and give us more regular communication/clarification on the Community Guidelines.

    Here’s my take:

    Whether or not ChipotleAddict/Papagates are splitting money, this is a bad look for the industry at a time when we’re under the microscope. However, it’s important for people to understand that these two are only violating the guidelines if they are splitting the money. Making lineups together is not a violation, but colluding to surpass the 150 entry limit and then splitting profits would be. That puts DK in a situation where they must know if these two are splitting the money to have real proof, which is obviously not easy.

    There is no simple answer for how to deal with this. Hopefully threads like this one can help bring an answer forward. It is clear to me that status quo is not the answer. The sites need to be proactive about addressing these issues and even more proactive about communicating with the players. Two years ago that was easy – Jon Aguiar and other reps could just interact with players right here on the forum. That’s not possible in today’s environment, but it should be possible to have more structured/scheduled statements, interviews, etc. That’s the best way to bridge the growing gap between the players and sites.

    Clarity around Team play over individual play in which they have in their guidelines also would be part of this and other issues to which they provide no clarity.

  • SnowShark

    We are at a point now if it seems shady… even a little bit it shouldn’t be a question. Don’t do it!!! A statement from the sites is needed!!

  • yostradamus

    If you think these brothers are doing this, then what about the people who make a pack to work together in larger groups?

    Single entry is the only way to play…this multi-entry stuff is not fantasy sports in my opinion……

  • timusbr

    @ThatStunna said...

    What does that have to do with collusion? I’m colluding with SaahilSud because I don’t join his head to heads?

    This thread would be much more effective if people kept their focus on the issue at hand and cut out extraneous nonsense.

    LMAO question my statement. they are semi pro out to make large $$ amounts. many contributors say the issue is in our conspiracy theory imaginations. 2 people that collude playing 3 man games??? lol. and if they wanted to play against each other for bragging rights and cash than a simple H2H would suffice maybe even using multi lineups against each other. But with all the talk about collusion and they do or dont cheat. It kinda narrows down their motives if they never play h2h together but team up and play 3-man. follow the money on simple minded folk trying to skirt the edges. You must be an idiot not to understand this. I got some good things to sell, you interested Stunna

  • Rycol19

    When the IRS gets involved DK will have to open the books and make a statement. I’m sure the IRS tracks every top player and most winners. They monitor all online sites and as soon as they can get the goods on someone they will jump. Ebayers are finding that out when they sell more than $5,000 a month. With all the info on secondary sites listing winners it’s not hard for the internet agents to check some of the players out. An IRS lawyer may also be able to shed some light on this. They may be breaking a law we don’t know exists.

  • JustRaze

    The sickest irony is that this would not happen on Pokerstars, an overseas “unregulated” company. Yet these sites that can legally operate in the US do absolutely nothing about this sort of bullshit that happens constantly. Fuckin government.

  • jjwd

    @AWoo said...

    Well there are a couple people that I am paying attention to that are trying to get some things done, such as getting at least one AG involved

    Who are the people, and who is the AG? If you have some relevant, actionable information, let us know. Otherwise, you’re just being melodramatic.

  • deactivated70770

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    @jjwd said...

    Who are the people, and who is the AG? If you have some relevant, actionable information, let us know. Otherwise, you’re just being melodramatic.

    He is a very important person can’t you tell. As if everyone is just watching this thread waiting for him to reveal this big news.

  • catmando

    we have had husband and wife teams win trips using or legally having diff screen names ..we have had a few teams win trips..all legal…until the next big thing hits all will stay status quo..after that rake will go up and then back to normal again..if it aint illegal it aint cheatin

  • timusbr

    @Cal said...

    The sites need to be proactive about addressing these issues and even more proactive about communicating with the players.

    Cal at this particular point in time the industry needs sites like RG to identify and discuss the issue. The bigger players and myself dont really care if they use 150 or 300 lineups. I think that most of the big players know or knew this to be a fact that the brothers worked together. They didnt care. But no regulations, an ownership hiding behind joint venture capitalism, and assuming a working management responsible to the bottom line and nothing else. I REALLY LIKE TO SEE SUPPORT OF OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION AND HELP BRINGING THE PROVIDERS ACCOUNTABLE.

  • dude_abides7

    @Cal said...

    The sites need to be proactive about addressing these issues and even more proactive about communicating with the players.

    Where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, that’s right…like every day for the last 2 years. It never happens, they are ALWAYS reactionary, not proactive. It takes a scandal (or even a non-scandal) to bring clarity out of the woodwork. It’s Groundhog day, over and over.

    Cal, I applaud your efforts to use the influence you have to get some answers to this. Much appreciated. But at the end of the day…you shouldn’t have to do this. It is not RG’s job to inform DK or FD of nefarious actors, potential foul play or any other powder keg issue that comes down the pike. A company as large as DK needs to be out ahead of this because they have put measures (people) in place to prevent potential abuse.

    And if there are scenarios where, to no fault of anyone, a situation is brought to their attention by a loyal fan base, they shouldn’t stall and look the other way until news agencies pick the thing up. This is all so unavoidable.

    I get that enforcement with the community rules can be dicey and hard to manage….especially this issue. But the core issue here is not that DK is doing the wrong thing. It is that they are doing nothing…once again. This “issue” has been reported for months by everyday players and concerned DFS’ers. Those inquiries were unilaterally ignored.

    The fact that the founder of a channel partner/sponsor (Cal/RG) needs to ping their tower proves exactly what is wrong with the system. Too bad the same respect that I assume they will pay your request couldn’t be mirrored for the legion of other patrons with similar concerns over the years. DK is asleep at the wheel. Always have been and (evidently) always will be.

  • rgreuli

    They seem to be M.I.A. on DK today.

  • Mphst18

    Here is also how DFS differs from the casino industry. Casinos will share information around players they ban and inform each other of the individuals and what they do because it is the Casino’s money that is being fleeced.

    While IMO I think DK is doing the same thing they did with DAUT/MIR, a “brief” Time out and then back to BAU it is telling that FD (where they unreg 3 man) appears not to be monitoring them or looking into things.

  • rayofhope

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Cal said...

    Whether or not ChipotleAddict/Papagates are splitting money, this is a bad look for the industry at a time when we’re under the microscope. However, it’s important for people to understand that these two are only violating the guidelines if they are splitting the money. Making lineups together is not a violation, but colluding to surpass the 150 entry limit and then splitting profits would be. That puts DK in a situation where they must know if these two are splitting the money to have real proof, which is obviously not easy.

    DK doesn’t need to be 100% convinced of profit-sharing+collusion to suspend accounts, otherwise they could literally never ban anyone. If there is reasonable suspicion (from data, and from real world connections) they can move the burden onto the players to show that they aren’t colluding.

    PokerStars bans/suspends accounts all the time, and since the very beginning they’ve prevented known linked accounts from playing in the same SNGs. No reason DK can’t do the same. Accounts with known links/reasonable suspicion of working together can’t enter single entries together, can’t surpass 3%/150 entries combined in multi-entry. It’s not a perfect solution, there will probably be some innocent people lumped together at first, but it’s better than letting it go unchecked.

    edit: This is an issue that goes beyond DK, the millionaire maker and potle/bpg, it applies to FD, large buyin contests and many other high volume accounts, as well.

  • deactivated59241

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    @jjwd said...

    Who are the people, and who is the AG? If you have some relevant, actionable information, let us know. Otherwise, you’re just being melodramatic.

    I can assure you AWoo is not blowing smoke. You do realize that people playing DFS, even those who are successful and making a lot of money, have day jobs. Day jobs that are meant to be a voice for people. And when push comes to shove and DK doesn’t want to answer for consumer protection they agreed to with AGs to get regulation legislation passed, then playing a game and making money isn’t important as doing the right thing.

  • drolson22

    2014 DFBBC Runner-up

    @rayofhope said...

    Accounts with known links/reasonable suspicion of working together can’t enter single entries together, can’t surpass 3%/150 entries combined in multi-entry. It’s not a perfect solution, there will probably be some innocent people lumped together at first, but it’s better than letting it go unchecked.

    I like this idea, seems pretty reasonable. Restricting linked accounts is a much better way of going at this problem.

  • deactivated60279

    If they don’t ban the account as rayofhope eloquently stated, you will see much more of this. Heck why wouldn’t people do it if they don’t send a message? Would suspending one of the accounts be sufficient?

  • jjwd

    @SportsFront said...

    Day jobs that are meant to be a voice for people.

    Huh? I’m a bit confused by the wording of your post. If Awoo has important media info he should share it, because we need to inform our local media and politicians about DFS. They don’t understand it. But it’s also possible Awoo read some rumors on Twitter, or wherever. Speculation and hype about a DFS implosion is counter-productive, and juvenile. If you love DFS, and want to keep it, you should inform yourself about tricky issues like this, and represent things fairly. Otherwise, why are you here?

  • DomTwan

    Hans to Papa

  • deactivated59241

    • 450

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2015 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FCFWC Finalist

    @jjwd said...

    Huh? I’m a bit confused by the wording of your post. If Awoo has important media info he should share it, because we need to inform our local media and politicians about DFS. They don’t understand it. But it’s also possible Awoo read some rumors on Twitter, or wherever. Speculation and hype about a DFS implosion is counter-productive, and juvenile. If you love DFS, and want to keep it, you should inform yourself about tricky issues like this, and represent things fairly. Otherwise, why are you here?

    Probably best for you to just sit this one out, bud. Judging from the wording of your post, AWoo is bit more informed than you. He also never said anything about impending implosion and nothing I see in his comments should be called juvenile. He simply stated a message that it sounds like maybe the media is already on it. At least that’s what I inferred.

    But, hey, we’ll all be sure to ‘inform ourselves about tricky issues like this’ … Thanks for the advice.

  • jjwd

    @SportsFront said...

    Probably best for you to just sit this one out, bud.

    LOL. Careful readers will understand the point I’ve been making in this thread. You, maybe not.

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