INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • Mphst18

    I am using the analysis of data to draw a conclusion and ask questions in the alleged scenario (the data is not alleged it is actual data). My views are not to be interpreted as fact but to allow individuals to determine if they feel they are playing a game with integrity or one that is monitoring for violations of entry limits and rules.

    Is this a form of circumventing Entry limits and or an alternate form of multi accounting (regardless of if they are actually two individuals)

    If two brothers or individuals take 50% of each others winnings and agree to risk the same amount every night (enter the same contests with the same number of entries) is this a violation guidelines/rule. Of note they may not technically be “pooling entry fees” as brother A does not send brother B any money for entry fees they just sum up or net profit at the end of the night and reconcile.

    They max enter every gpp mlb contest (for the max entries below 150 they don’t overlap entries (they may also not overlap for 150 but I am not digging through all that data as DK supposedly has a game integrity department that is supposed to be monitoring this stuff).

    Let’s look at 9/13 2016 data, the data for 9/6 shows the same as well and we can look at 9/20 data when that’s available: (my guess here it’s the same every day but just taking the Tue slates as that’s the big prize for DK)

    MLB $600K Power Hitter ($444, 45 max) – Chipolteaddict 45 entries, papagates 45 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $30K Warning Track ($150, 3 max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $5K Deep Mini Moonshot ($3, 50 max) – Chipolteaddict 50 entries, papagates 50 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $10K Slider ($3, 3max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $150K Payoff Pitch ($27, 150 max) – Chipolteaddict 150 entries, papagates 150 entries (I am not digging through 150 to determine overlap or not, other people are supposedly paid to do this)

  • Nelson01

    Looks sorta fishy

  • Ajbistheman04

    Where has mphst18 gone? I thought for sure he would be all over this after this weekends wildcat performance by these 2.

  • jah2323

    Not the least bit surprised to see this thread back on the 1st page, as it should be I might add, although many those affected this past weekend are prob doing the same

  • dude_abides7

    @Ajbistheman04 said...

    Where has mphst18 gone? I thought for sure he would be all over this after this weekends wildcat performance by these 2.

    So happened, exactly?

  • whothis

    What happened?

  • tsteeves

    @whothis said...

    What happened?

    If you’re referring to what happened regarding Chipotle/Papagates, they did very well in Sundays wildcat https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/32347751 They had a combined 240 entries. As for the original controversy, In my opinion I believe there was wrong doing on their behalf. I haven’t seen enough facts to form an opinion this time around.

  • phillygamecox

    Just imagine if Papa had held on to win the milly maker. He was in 1st until he dropped down to 8th by the time Kelley went nuts at the end… Then I’d imagine the board would be going crazy if he won that again…

  • lggarruto

    • 362

      RG Overall Ranking

    I speak to my friend at work every single day about lineups. I do not think that one time all year we had an overlapping lineup to the extent of these two. I love how there was no resolution and all DK does is open themselves up for speculation by not saying anything. It seemed to die down and that’s probably what they hope would happen but their is most definitely some shady shit going on.

  • geardaddy

    They were interlaying within each other in every gpp in nfl on sunday. And I noticed the same in cash games on nba on sunday. Not one duplicate but lineups are very similar. If the DFS industry dies it will be because of these guys. Exceeding the entry limits is against the rules. They are colluding.

  • Nobakov

    Yeah. Pretty much having the same core but not 1 identical LU tells you they’re building together. Not rocket science.

  • tsteeves

    Two things are certain…This will continue to go on and DK won’t penalize anyone, so essentially there’s nothing to see here.

  • dude_abides7

    @tsteeves said...

    so essentially there’s nothing to see here.

    Except the inevitable end of DFS.

    You would have thought national exposure to their collusion and a million dollar payout would have been enough for them to slow their roll for a while. Evidently not.

    Honesty, I don’t even blame them. If DK is going to let them do it, then it’s on DK. I personally think that until the inept leaders of DK are pushed aside then DFS is going to suffer.

  • rainbowtroutman

    Why do you guys still play on DK. If enough people would boycott DK and play on the smaller sites, maybe,although I doubt it, DK would be forced to address the many,many issues they have. To me DK is a farce.

  • tsteeves

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Except the inevitable end of DFS.

    You would have thought national exposure to their collusion and a million dollar payout would have been enough for them to slow their roll for a while. Evidently not.

    Honesty, I don’t even blame them. If DK is going to let them do it, then it’s on DK. I personally think that until the inept leaders of DK are pushed aside then DFS is going to suffer.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d like nothing more then to have DK properly address these issues but history has shown that simply won’t happen.

  • jman3034

    Very disappointing to see they did this again and Draftkings won’t do anything about it…hopefully when the 2 companies merge they crack down on this. It takes away a lot of the fun and integrity of the game

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @sjs1890 said...

    Seriously why is DK taking so long to respond??? Not only does the community deserve a response, we deserve a honest and clear set of rules so every player actually knows what they’re playing. High stake players playing low stakes is despicable especially after a milly maker win is just disgusting. RG needs to put pressure on DK considering they represent the community and the community wants this issue addressed. Its just 100% pure greed for any high stake player to enter in low stakes games, you dont see mlb pro’s having to face triple a and double a teams and same for every other profession.

    We have to see DK/FD’s side, or their profit from the sharks; if they regulate entries more or block pro’s from low stakes contests, their large, low-entry fee GPPs probably won’t fill. A lot of their business is from sharks who max enter. Once those contests stop filling, the number of entries – as well as prize pools – will come down. No more milly maker. At least, it is something to consider.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    More than ever, FD and DK are being run as businesses for management and investors. It is in their interest to make sure the large volume players play, even if it drives off some small fish. May not be fair, but it is reality. If people are so upset about it, play on some other site. That’s all that can really be done.

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @sochoice said...

    More than ever, FD and DK are being run as businesses for management and investors. It is in their interest to make sure the large volume players play, even if it drives off some small fish. May not be fair, but it is reality. If people are so upset about it, play on some other site. That’s all that can really be done.

    Agreed, both sites run plenty of contests that sharks typically won’t play in; dollar entries, quarter arcade, and would 3-entry max contests really be that much better sans chipotle/papa gates? I don’t think so. If you don’t want to play against the odds, for that big prize, don’t play. If you do hit that big 1st prize someday, you’ll have the chance to max-enter and make a serious investment/try to become a pro if you choose. And then would you want to be regulated or prevented from entering another $20 contest again?

    The only thing I think sites need to regulate better is the scripting. They have done a decent job of improving the site’s capability for average joe, but they still let the sharks run their own programs. As much as the DK NBA lineup lock sucks, it does prevent some of that edge that these programs offered to sharks, i.e. late player swap for max entries.

  • tsteeves

    @draftpug said...

    Agreed, both sites run plenty of contests that sharks typically won’t play in; dollar entries, quarter arcade

    I gotta disagree with you on this. I frequently see them max entering even the lowest stakes contests.

  • jah2323

    @sochoice said...

    More than ever, FD and DK are being run as businesses for management and investors. It is in their interest to make sure the large volume players play, even if it drives off some small fish. May not be fair, but it is reality. If people are so upset about it, play on some other site. That’s all that can really be done.

    I don’t think you understand the issue, or at least you’re not commenting on it, these guys will max enter no matter what, it’s the type of behavior these 2 are exhibiting that’s the problem, it’s pretty obvious what they’re doing, it’s just sad DK will most likely look the other way again

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    It will be interesting to see prize pool sizes, as well as entry limits, for the merger. Hmmm. Could get even more difficult to beat the sharks :(

  • RangerC

    @tsteeves said...

    I gotta disagree with you on this. I frequently see them max entering even the lowest stakes contests.

    Yup they max enter EVERYTHING down to the quarter level (max/saahil usually stays at $3, most of the other guys don’t). The problem is not that you have to play against 150 LU sets in the big $3 tourneys, the problem is that you can’t play a small quarter arcade or $1 50/50 without playing against max entry pros. Max entry in most tournaments isn’t the problem, massive multi-entry is. DK doesn’t understand anything about growing an ecosystem or retaining players.

  • btwice80

    @RangerC said...

    the problem is that you can’t play a small quarter arcade or $1 50/50 without playing against max entry pros

    What advantage do they have against you in a $1 50/50?

  • Jcb890

    @draftpug said...

    Agreed, both sites run plenty of contests that sharks typically won’t play in; dollar entries, quarter arcade, and would 3-entry max contests really be that much better sans chipotle/papa gates? I don’t think so. If you don’t want to play against the odds, for that big prize, don’t play. If you do hit that big 1st prize someday, you’ll have the chance to max-enter and make a serious investment/try to become a pro if you choose. And then would you want to be regulated or prevented from entering another $20 contest again?

    The only thing I think sites need to regulate better is the scripting. They have done a decent job of improving the site’s capability for average joe, but they still let the sharks run their own programs. As much as the DK NBA lineup lock sucks, it does prevent some of that edge that these programs offered to sharks, i.e. late player swap for max entries.

    You aren’t commenting on the subject at hand and you could not be more wrong about contests sharks “typically won’t play in”. They play in all contests, including max entering the quarter arcade.

    This discussion is not about a level playing field and ranking system. The thread for that is here:
    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/why-haven-t-fd-dk-attempted-a-true-and-strict-player-ranking-system-1549340

  • Jcb890

    @btwice80 said...

    What advantage do they have against you in a $1 50/50?

    The cash line for the large Double-Ups on DK is higher than for GPP’s. That should be all you need to know.

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