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  • Mphst18

    I am using the analysis of data to draw a conclusion and ask questions in the alleged scenario (the data is not alleged it is actual data). My views are not to be interpreted as fact but to allow individuals to determine if they feel they are playing a game with integrity or one that is monitoring for violations of entry limits and rules.

    Is this a form of circumventing Entry limits and or an alternate form of multi accounting (regardless of if they are actually two individuals)

    If two brothers or individuals take 50% of each others winnings and agree to risk the same amount every night (enter the same contests with the same number of entries) is this a violation guidelines/rule. Of note they may not technically be “pooling entry fees” as brother A does not send brother B any money for entry fees they just sum up or net profit at the end of the night and reconcile.

    They max enter every gpp mlb contest (for the max entries below 150 they don’t overlap entries (they may also not overlap for 150 but I am not digging through all that data as DK supposedly has a game integrity department that is supposed to be monitoring this stuff).

    Let’s look at 9/13 2016 data, the data for 9/6 shows the same as well and we can look at 9/20 data when that’s available: (my guess here it’s the same every day but just taking the Tue slates as that’s the big prize for DK)

    MLB $600K Power Hitter ($444, 45 max) – Chipolteaddict 45 entries, papagates 45 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $30K Warning Track ($150, 3 max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $5K Deep Mini Moonshot ($3, 50 max) – Chipolteaddict 50 entries, papagates 50 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $10K Slider ($3, 3max) – Chipolteaddict 3 entries, papagates 3 entries no lineup overlap

    MLB $150K Payoff Pitch ($27, 150 max) – Chipolteaddict 150 entries, papagates 150 entries (I am not digging through 150 to determine overlap or not, other people are supposedly paid to do this)

  • btwice80

    @Jcb890 said...

    The cash line for the large Double-Ups on DK is higher than for GPP’s. That should be all you need to know.

    Did you mean to quote me? I didn’t say anything about double ups. Also, that’s not always true about the cash lines.

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Jcb890 said...

    You aren’t commenting on the subject at hand and you could not be more wrong about contests sharks “typically won’t play in”. They play in all contests, including max entering the quarter arcade.

    This discussion is not about a level playing field and ranking system. The thread for that is here:
    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/why-haven-t-fd-dk-attempted-a-true-and-strict-player-ranking-system-1549340

    “I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.”

    A simple no would’ve been fine.

    I was responding to a poster who claimed that any low dollar contests should block pro’s entries. My opinion was that 3 pro entries in a 3-entry max contest doesn’t seem daunting, and that a typical pro would not play in the quarter arcade. I’m wrong about the quarter arcade. Still…seems to be part of the subject at hand.

  • Jcb890

    @draftpug said...

    “I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.”

    A simple no would’ve been fine.

    I was responding to a poster who claimed that any low dollar contests should block pro’s entries. My opinion was that 3 pro entries in a 3-entry max contest doesn’t seem daunting, and that a typical pro would not play in the quarter arcade. I’m wrong about the quarter arcade. Still…seems to be part of the subject at hand.

    No worries. Great quote, lol!

    There’s plenty of discussions on that, so just doing my part to try and keep them separate and the thread focused.

    Unfortunately, these guys play in all price levels and max out everything they can. It isn’t really on them or their fault entirely either. In my opinion, it is tough to blame them for taking advantage of a system that is designed to allow them to prey on weaker competition.

  • Jcb890

    @btwice80 said...

    Did you mean to quote me? I didn’t say anything about double ups. Also, that’s not always true about the cash lines.

    Yes I did.
    Sorry, you said 50/50 and I lumped the Double-Ups into the same category. In a single-entry 50/50, there isn’t an issue of max entries by pros. At that point it is your LU vs. their LU. What I was commenting on was the advantage those guys have in the large Double-Ups or large 50/50’s where they have their 150-LU trains which really seem to hurt fringe players more.

    I’m sure it is not true 100% of the time, but I’m pretty sure just about every week this season the cash line in the $3 GPP has been lower than the cash line for the large/massive/huge $5 Double-Up. Same goes for FanDuel as well.

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Jcb890 said...

    No worries. Great quote, lol!

    There’s plenty of discussions on that, so just doing my part to try and keep them separate and the thread focused.

    Unfortunately, these guys play in all price levels and max out everything they can. It isn’t really on them or their fault entirely either. In my opinion, it is tough to blame them for taking advantage of a system that is designed to allow them to prey on weaker competition.

    You’re good. I think the most concise way to summarize this topic IMO is: is it OK for 2 players to ‘work together.’ Makes it tough on us; I usually have about $50 in play ea night, hard to keep up with max entry players as is, let alone if they’re piggybacking. How does DK fix this though? Must be difficult to monitor that their lineups have no non-unique overlap Before lineup lock. Seems most people are in favor of a DK player suspension??

  • dude_abides7

    @jman3034 said...

    Very disappointing to see they did this again and Draftkings won’t do anything about it…hopefully when the 2 companies merge they crack down on this.

    As one company with the same failed, inexperienced and shortsighted leadership…this will only get worse, not better.

  • dude_abides7

    @draftpug said...

    Agreed, both sites run plenty of contests that sharks typically won’t play in; dollar entries, quarter arcade,

    Um….these guys are routinely in those super low stakes contests as well. So your point is unfortunately void. On the contrary, it makes the opposite point that DK is allowing teams like PG/CA to piss in the well water, sullying it for everyone. This “rake or bust” mentality will burn the house down eventually.

  • CountKarma

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Well said

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    So was anyone going to actually provide any evidence of their wrongdoing or is it just pitch fork time anytime these guys have a good week?

    No one had anything to say the last 8-9 weeks when they were barely cashing any entries of the 250-300 they put in combined

    If you are going to make serious accusations like this some good evidence better be presented

  • dude_abides7

    @reztes757 said...

    So was anyone going to actually provide any evidence of their wrongdoing or is it just pitch fork time anytime these guys have a good week?

    No one had anything to say the last 8-9 weeks when they were barely cashing any entries of the 250-300 they put in combined

    If you are going to make serious accusations like this some good evidence better be presented

    The reason people stopped clamoring about it was because DK decided to ignore the entire issue and the majority of us have better things to do then constantly swim up-stream. It was deemed a lost cause.

    The general consensus is that these guys circumvent entry limits by coordinating their lineups to prevent overlap, sans their core. The fact that they did not cash recently is irrelevant. Their mode of play and their insistence to dig down to the $.25 games is despicable. It is DK’s job to prevent this, not for these two to stop. That is the problem.

    Feel free to defend them though…all good,

  • RangerC

    @btwice80 said...

    What advantage do they have against you in a $1 50/50?

    I was thinking more of the fact that it looks absolutely horrendous to a beginner to see the same guys in the $10,500 50/50 and the $1 50/50 (not to mention that guys like AEJones/Kunu88 routinely enter the same LU in small single entry cash contests). It costs FD/DK anywhere from $35-190 to acquire a player (there are a number of figures floating around depending on how you factor advertising costs) and then they do absolutely nothing to retain them and everything to push them away. Putting some sort of logical entry limit (say on contests $3 and below with less than $10K total prize pool) would do next to nothing to the bottom lines of both FD/DK and high-stakes players but would give low/midstakes players a ‘home’ (which could be huge if DK/FD tries to monetize their userbase through advertising / running more of a social site).

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    @dude_abides7 said...

    The reason people stopped clamoring about it was because DK decided to ignore the entire issue and the majority of us have better things to do then constantly swim up-stream. It was deemed a lost cause.

    The general consensus is that these guys circumvent entry limits by coordinating their lineups to prevent overlap, sans their core. The fact that they did not cash recently is irrelevant. Their mode of play and their insistence to dig down to the $.25 games is despicable. It is DK’s job to prevent this, not for these two to stop. That is the problem.

    Feel free to defend them though…all good,

    Dk did an investigation and concluded they didn’t violate terms of service. Sorry their investigation didn’t agree with your opinion but I’ll side with DK despite myself thinking everything looked really fishy the first go around.

    Playing in .25 cent games really has no place in this thread as it’s explicitly allowed by the sites. It’s a concerning issue for a separate thread and involves a lot more people than just these two.

    I’m well aware of the general consusenus but for this new allegation there has been zero evidence presented. I play the same high buyin contests these guys and am very concerned about collusion, but I’m going to need see more evidence than these 2 guys won a lot with similar lineups at the top.

  • dude_abides7

    @reztes757 said...

    Dk did an investigation and concluded they didn’t violate terms of service. Sorry their investigation didn’t agree with your opinion but I’ll side with DK despite myself thinking everything looked really fishy the first go around.

    Playing in .25 cent games really has no place in this thread as it’s explicitly allowed by the sites. It’s a concerning issue for a separate thread and involves a lot more people than just these two.

    I’m well aware of the general consusenus but for this new allegation there has been zero evidence presented. I play the same high buyin contests these guys and am very concerned about collusion, but I’m going to need see more evidence than these 2 guys won a lot with similar lineups at the top.

    Where is this public disclosure that DK provided this finding you reference? All DK did was reinstate their ‘suspended’ accounts and acted like it was business as usual. There was no official response whatsoever. DK continues a method of non-transparency that continues to make matters worse for this industry. Don’t you understand that?

    Proving collusion is nearly impossible. That said, to allow your TOS to be swiss-cheesed by players looking to exploit your system makes you culpable in the act. You can’t just sit back and say…oh well. Regulators will not like this answer….neither will your customer base. I get the point you are trying to make, please better understand the one the consensus is trying to make:

    Although collusion is inherently nearly impossible to prove, in action, DK certainly can introduce measures to limit (dare I say prevent) such things from occurring. Instead, they choose to do nothing, not communicate with their loyal users and continue a non-transparent policy that many people believe will be their doom.

    If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 100 times. PG/CA are doing what they do. It is up to DK to prevent breaches or loophole exploits. The fact that they don’t and continue to refuse talking about this issue is exactly why many here feel the way they do. But I’m sure you think we should just go and build better lineups…..

  • RangerC

    @reztes757 said...

    Dk did an investigation and concluded they didn’t violate terms of service. Sorry their investigation didn’t agree with your opinion but I’ll side with DK despite myself thinking everything looked really fishy the first go around

    Did DK ever actually release any official statements regarding any of the collusive behavior? There are 3 documented instances:

    1) mazwa/ragingphillip Golf collusion (pretty open and shut, obvious use of 300 LU generator split among two accounts). Nothing official was mentioned. Mazwa/ragingphillip may have been temp banned (not in contests for a week if I remember) and permabanned from multientering Golf contests together (don’t remember seeing both of them in a tournament the rest of the season, but I could be wrong).

    2) Daut/mir golf collusion (admitted to blocking out salary ranges together in LU generation to ensure no overlap). Temp banned, investigated, no consequence (apparently the way they colluded didn’t technically violate ToS at the time as it was two seperate LU generators; still collusion, though). The only reason we know anything is because Daut leaked the convo with DK.

    3) Papagates/chipotleaddict mysterious LU correlation (again, maybe not technically a ToS violation, but looks horrible to have two brothers max multi-entry everything down to .25c with zero/minimal overlap while referring to their LU’s using ‘we’)

    Problem is even in case 1 we got no statement and a minimal consequence (mazwa/ragingphilip still put 300 LUs together into NBA that mysteriously never duplicate each other even after being caught doing the same in Golf).

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Where is this public disclosure that DK provided this finding you reference? All DK did was reinstate their ‘suspended’ accounts and acted like it was business as usual. There was no official response whatsoever. DK continues a method of non-transparncy that continues to make matters worse for this industry. Don’t you understand that?

    Proving collusion is nearly impossible. That said, to allow your TOS to be swiss-cheesed by players looking to exploit your system makes you culpable in the act. You can’t just sit back and say…oh well. Regulators will not like this answer….neither will your customer base. I get the point you are trying to make, please better understand the one the consensus is trying to make:

    Although collusion is inherently nearly impossible to prove, in action, DK certainly can introduce measures to limit (dare I say prevent) such things from occurring. Instead, they choose to do nothing, not communicate with their loyal users and continue a non-transparent policy that many people believe will be their doom.

    If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 100 times. PG/CA are doing what they do. It is up to DK to prevent breaches or loophole exploits. The fact that they don’t and continue to refuse talking about this issue is exactly why many here feel the way they do. But I’m sure you think we should just go and build better lineups…..

    I can see where you are coming from with DKs transparency. I guess it just doesn’t bother me coming from a decade of online poker and that being the norm in that industry as well. I absolutely agree some better communication from Dk on these issues would go a long way but you certainly can’t expect them to disclose their methods of catching collusion.

    You say PG/CA keep doing what they are doing. Well what are they doing? Provide a detailed analysis of all of their milly enteries since PG won the milly.

    Surely you understand how unproductive it is to yell cheat/collusion without a shred of eveidence presented so far. Make the case and if there’s overwhelming evidence im the sure the high profile pros will make a big enough stink on Twitter to get Dk to act.

  • dude_abides7

    @reztes757 said...

    I can see where you are coming from with DKs transparency. I guess it just doesn’t bother me coming from a decade of online poker and that being the norm in that industry as well. I absolutely agree some better communication from Dk on these issues would go a long way but you certainly can’t expect them to disclose their methods of catching collusion.

    You say PG/CA keep doing what they are doing. Well what are they doing? Provide a detailed analysis of all of their milly enteries since PG won the milly.

    Surely you understand how unproductive it is to yell cheat/collusion without a shred of eveidence presented so far. Make the case and if there’s overwhelming evidence im the sure the high profile pros will make a big enough stink on Twitter to get Dk to act.

    Online Poker – Yeah, how did that end up? Case closed.

    Doing what they are doing – Sorry for the vagueness. I am saying it doesn’t matter what they are doing. In other words, it is not up to them to stop unless DK tells them to stop. Once again, my finger is pointed at DK.

    Collusion is collusion. If DK wants to look the other way…fine. But I assure you Mr. Government will not. I don’t know if you are new to this thread, but a lot of very interesting findings were presented about this event. The fact that these two would have little to zero overlap on their non-core players is very suspicious. Does it represent irrefutable proof? Of course not…that is impossible unless they openly admit their scheme. The “you take Brady stacks, I’ll take Big Ben stacks” methodology using the same core to get a 300 entry spread is NOT in the true intention of DFS or the rules.

    Bottom line, it looks bad and the sites (assuming they want to stay in business) need to tidy up their policies. In the meantime, it is fair game for these guys to continue their exploitation scheme while DK says or does absolutely nothing.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Online Poker – Yeah, how did that end up? Case closed.

    Doing what they are doing – Sorry for the vagueness. I am saying it doesn’t matter what they are doing. In other words, it is not up to them to stop unless DK tells them to stop. Once again, my finger is pointed at DK.

    Collusion is collusion. If DK wants to look the other way…fine. But I assure you Mr. Government will not. I don’t know if you are new to this thread, but a lot of very interesting findings were presented about this event. The fact that these two would have little to zero overlap on their non-core players is very suspicious. Does it represent irrefutable proof? Of course not…that is impossible unless they openly admit their scheme. The “you take Brady stacks, I’ll take Big Ben stacks” methodology using the same core to get a 300 entry spread is NOT in the true intention of DFS or the rules.

    Bottom line, it looks bad and the sites (assuming they want to stay in business) need to tidy up their policies. In the meantime, it is fair game for these guys to continue their exploitation scheme while DK says or does absolutely nothing.

    how online poker ended has absolutely nothing to do with dfs. If you feel the sites are violating federal laws with their handling of investigations im all ears.

    I read this thread in entirety after won the milly but it’s not exactly fresh in my mind. I seem to remember not seeing anything suspicious in their milly entries. I thought some of the MLB stuff was more convincing from what I remember.

    We now have 11 weeks of NFL data. It would be nice for someone to compile their ownership percentages from each week to see if there’s actually something there or if you are just grasping at straws because they won again.

    I agree the optics are really bad for dfs. But like you said, it’s really hard to prove collusion. I don’t really know what the solution is though. They could limit known “teams” to one account, prevent them from entering the same contests, cap their combined entries for contests at 150 or whatever the max for a contest is, require tax documents next year to see if money is being split.

  • Jcb890

    @reztes757 said...

    how online poker ended has absolutely nothing to do with dfs. If you feel the sites are violating federal laws with their handling of investigations im all ears.

    I read this thread in entirety after won the milly but it’s not exactly fresh in my mind. I seem to remember not seeing anything suspicious in their milly entries. I thought some of the MLB stuff was more convincing from what I remember.

    We now have 11 weeks of NFL data. It would be nice for someone to compile their ownership percentages from each week to see if there’s actually something there or if you are just grasping at straws because they won again.

    I agree the optics are really bad for dfs. But like you said, it’s really hard to prove collusion. I don’t really know what the solution is though. They could limit known “teams” to one account, prevent them from entering the same contests, cap their combined entries for contests at 150 or whatever the max for a contest is, require tax documents next year to see if money is being split.

    Don’t you see a problem with asking people on this forum to go through 11 weeks of NFL data? People have gone through a lot of their data and contests previously if you look back through this thread. Some of it seemed pretty damning. What happened? Absolutely nothing.

    So, you want someone to devote hours into research for this cause for what reason? So we can sit here and bitch about them, saying we have proof, while DK still sits around and does nothing? Even Mphst18 appears to feel it wasn’t worth their time since they haven’t been back to the thread in a while.

  • phillygamecox

    @reztes757 said...

    I can see where you are coming from with DKs transparency. I guess it just doesn’t bother me coming from a decade of online poker and that being the norm in that industry as well.

    I think this is the key issue right there. Casual players ARE “bothered” and they see things like this and wonder why should they even play if potential shadiness is occurring—whether they are proven or otherwise. Unfortunately, the sites have been atrocious in their action(or most times LACK of action) which has turned off the masses.

    And no matter how fuzzy and kumbaya their message of the merger is – without this merger they both would go under. Unless they change how they are doing “business” and reacting to these serious inquiries with clear communication – it will be back to yearly fantasy for all of us.

  • dude_abides7

    @reztes757 said...

    how online poker ended has absolutely nothing to do with dfs.

    You’re the one that drawled the poker comparison, not me.

    I am just looking at what I see may be the same end result. DFS, belly up. No one wants that. Time to straighten the arrow and be more transparent. That part is actually rather simple and aligns with what most sucessful businesses do anyway. Better Business Practice. DK should look into it…

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 510

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Hey guys,

    DraftKings suspended and investigated their accounts. DK cleared them to continue playing. It was determined their method of play does not violate the guidelines. Anyone saying “DraftKings is turning a blind eye” is either incorrect or disingenuous. They put their eye directly on it and cleared it, signaling that what those two do is OK under current rules.

    There was a Wall St Journal article about this:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/draftkings-investigating-potential-collusion-in-1-million-contest-1475091553

    It drives me nuts that DraftKings doesn’t further clarify the Guidelines and doesn’t make clearer statements, but that is the world we live in now. In 2014 they would be actively participating in these threads. Now everything goes through a legal or compliance dept, to the detriment of their relationship with players. We are planning to do monthly interviews with the DK brass to try to help with this. Here’s a link to the last one we did with Matt Kalish in October. There is a lot of good Community Guidelines discussion.

    Seeing correlated lineups at the top of the leaderboard in week 11 is simply not evidence of breaking the guidelines. PG/CA can talk about the same players and they can like the same players and they can play the same players. That is all allowed. They can even work off of the same set of projections, just like some of our members work off the RotoGrinders projections. Some of you guys need to have a much higher standard before dragging someone’s name through the mud. Intentionally not overlapping lineups and then splitting proceeds would be the part that violates guidelines. There are an extreme amount of combinations that can be built around a core. We should expect them to not have overlapping lineups even if they like the same core. Some weeks their cores look more correlated than other weeks. Occasionally what happened in week 11 is going to happen. Other weeks they’ll be at the bottom of the leaderboard or spread out all across the leaderboard with more loosely correlated teams.

    Some of you are upset that two brothers are allowed to play in the same tournaments with max entry from the highest levels to the lowest levels. Some of you are upset that brothers are allowed to play in the same cash games. Some of you don’t think someone playing in a $500 buyin should be allowed to play in a $.25 buyin. All of that is perfectly fine, and feel free to lobby DK to change the rules you think are unfair.

    Reztez, thanks for being the voice of reason in the most recent iteration of this debate.

    Feel free to debate, but don’t be disingenuous and don’t post speculation as fact. Anyone simply saying PG/CA are cheating without posting evidence or showing some real critical thought will be banned going forward. Anyone saying DraftKings is ignoring this situation will also be banned.

  • Nobakov

    @Cal said...

    PG/CA can talk about the same players and they can like the same players and they can play the same players. That is all allowed. They can even work off of the same set of projections, just like some of our members work off the RotoGrinders projections. Some of you guys need to have a much higher standard before dragging someone’s name through the mud. Intentionally not overlapping lineups and then splitting proceeds would be the part that violates guidelines. There are an extreme amount of combinations that can be built around a core.

    That’s the problem. They talk about players they like, great. Have the same core, great. But then to max enter and not have 1 identical LU, not great. Only way you do that is by actively making sure of it.

    So they’re gonna agree on the same core….no problem…but then we are expected to believe that of all the remaining players, they are so far off on them, that they don’t have an identical LU built around their shared core..lol..ok.

    Common sense would say that if they are independently building their own LU’s, and they do discuss the players they like beforehand, have the same core, that they would have multiple identical LU’s.

  • Heterodox

    @Jcb890 said...

    Even Mphst18 appears to feel it wasn’t worth their time since they haven’t been back to the thread in a while.

    lol I don’t think that’s why

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 510

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Nobakov said...

    That’s the problem. They talk about players they like, great. Have the same core, great. But then to max enter and not have 1 identical LU, not great. Only way you do that is by actively making sure of it.

    This is just completely wrong. You underestimate how many lineup combinations there are even with a diminished core. Their cores/percentages are not like the Mazwa/RagingPhilip similarities that led to the Community Guidelines. Your misunderstanding here is giving you what you think is a foundation to call someone a cheater. You shouldn’t be so quick to drag someone’s name through the mud. This is exactly what DK was looking into when the cleared these two guys. Not only are you not understanding the situation, you’re also saying that DraftKings investigation into these two accounts was a sham.

  • phillygamecox

    @Cal said...

    Hey guys,

    DraftKings suspended and investigated their accounts. DK cleared them to continue playing. It was determined their method of play does not violate the guidelines. Anyone saying “DraftKings is turning a blind eye” is either incorrect or disingenuous. They put their eye directly on it and cleared it, signaling that what those two do is OK under current rules.

    There was a Wall St Journal article about this:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/draftkings-investigating-potential-collusion-in-1-million-contest-1475091553

    It drives me nuts that DraftKings doesn’t further clarify the Guidelines and doesn’t make clearer statements, but that is the world we live in now. In 2014 they would be actively participating in these threads. Now everything goes through a legal or compliance dept, to the detriment of their relationship with players. We are planning to do monthly interviews with the DK brass to try to help with this. Here’s a link to the last one we did with Matt Kalish in October. There is a lot of good Community Guidelines discussion.

    Seeing correlated lineups at the top of the leaderboard in week 11 is simply not evidence of breaking the guidelines. PG/CA can talk about the same players and they can like the same players and they can play the same players. That is all allowed. They can even work off of the same set of projections, just like some of our members work off the RotoGrinders projections. Some of you guys need to have a much higher standard before dragging someone’s name through the mud. Intentionally not overlapping lineups and then splitting proceeds would be the part that violates guidelines. There are an extreme amount of combinations that can be built around a core. We should expect them to not have overlapping lineups even if they like the same core. Some weeks their cores look more correlated than other weeks. Occasionally what happened in week 11 is going to happen. Other weeks they’ll be at the bottom of the leaderboard or spread out all across the leaderboard with more loosely correlated teams.

    Some of you are upset that two brothers are allowed to play in the same tournaments with max entry from the highest levels to the lowest levels. Some of you are upset that brothers are allowed to play in the same cash games. Some of you don’t think someone playing in a $500 buyin should be allowed to play in a $.25 buyin. All of that is perfectly fine, and feel free to lobby DK to change the rules you think are unfair.

    Reztez, thanks for being the voice of reason in the most recent iteration of this debate.

    Feel free to debate, but don’t be disingenuous and don’t post speculation as fact. Anyone simply saying PG/CA are cheating without posting evidence or showing some real critical thought will be banned going forward. Anyone saying DraftKings is ignoring this situation will also be banned.

    Certainly see where you are coming from Cal, since there is such a fine line with what you can/can’t say to not upset the apple cart on both ends. You don’t want to alienate the RG people, but you also have relationships with the sites which is what drives your business in the first place. This all makes sense and I can imagine you struggle with each post, since most of them cover both ends of the spectrum. You mention how DK has shared a lot of good community guidelines…but then mention how they drive you nuts for not clarifying the guidelines and making clearer statements. :)

    If I was one of the ones you were thinking of when I mentioned how poorly the sites have reacted to these issues – from scripting, to Ethan, to Mazwa/Raging, to this thread, etc…I guess I should be banned from ever posting at RG again. I just personally think, and I believe a good deal of folks agree, that both sites have done a poor job addressing these major issues clearly and concisely. I think anytime two businesses need to merge to keep from going under sends a pretty clear message that perhaps things haven’t been handled as best they could…

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