INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Is there a market for this in the DFS world? I know the topic has come up in the past but generally gets ignored. Perhaps the growth of the industry would make this more viable?

    I’m not specifically trying to get into the market of doing this, but I think it’s worth a general discussion.

    Admin Update: RG Now has a DFS Coaching Page Located Here

  • FkCoolers

    Yeah, that format could work although it’s hard to remove hindsight bias.

  • depalma13

    For $10 a week, I will email you my top lineup and you can play it in any gpp you like.

    If you are not like me, you can take that top lineup and not tinker with it 10 minutes before kickoff. Since you are not like me and you are not going to tinker with the lineup, you would have already won a half million dollars on FanDuel.

  • ebsteelers

    50 dollars to 100 too 1000 ive seen in here? seeem a little nutty to pay that much

  • y2mulder

    I will E-mail you my nightly lineup for just $10.

    To make the deal really sweet, if it blows up, I will reimburse all your losses up to $8.

  • lionssuck

    I really can’t see a typical grinder paying for a coach, the rake is tough enough to overcome to be profitable let alone paying a coach. Like Seth mentioned earlier, I can definitely see someone who is in a big final having someone to bounce ideas off of as long as you weren’t in the same tournament.

  • kickr008

    I think the logic that a coach wouldn’t coach because it would hurt his edge is faulty. Regardless how skilled you are, variance can be ridiculous (so I’m told). If you depend on DFS for your income, charging a premium for coaching can supplement that. Not to mention, a pro could coach 1,000 students and I estimate 25 would have the willpower and discipline to apply what they learned enough to have an indirect effect on the pro’s edge.

    Regardless, whether or not you agree with coaching in DFS, as long as there is a price that outweighs the disadvantages to the coach and the students can afford it, there will be a demand. Personally, I believe that price exists.

    If I’m terrible (which I very well might be) at NHL, I don’t have to receive coaching from someone ranked in the top 100 to improve my results. Coach A might charge $1k/hr and be ranked in the top 10, while Coach B might be ranked in the top 200 and only charge $500/hr. Either one, assuming they can articulate and coach their techniques and strategies, would make me a better player. Point being, the coaching side of the equation doesn’t have to be limited to just the “big name” pros. Their resume and reputation would determine their rates, in addition to demand obviously.

    I read EMSBRO’s post. I searched his profile on RG. I looked at his rankings with the understanding that there’s a lot of holes in that ranking system, but it was some indication that it’s possible he could be a successful player. I PM EMSBRO with questions that would further validate his ability. His answers to those questions will determine if I pursue further. I hope there is something of value there, but he might have been joking.

    Either way, I believe there is a market.

  • travs424

    i think certain pro’s including stl would be great coaches and would be able to provide some value with coaching. but i do not think it guarantees that a player would make money, and that is what people would be looking for if they paid for coaching. depending on the sport, late scratches, injuries, days off, weather and last minutes changes make a team a winner vs a loser.

    stl can setup a great lineup for nba at 3pm that might suck at 7pm and he would be limited to how many people he could help at 655 when late scratches are announced.

    their is already enough info and help to get a player started, but the best help is that they do homework and be able to make smart decisions by themselves.

    i believe the market is limited for this service

  • jimmyrad

    No need to beat around the bush Cards, yes, I’ll teach you everything I know @$500 an hour.

  • sixbits

    I would simply be interested in Algo/Spreadsheet access…As others pointed out, assistance with setting one up or the like would also interest me.

  • benny11

    • Blogger of the Month

    @fadein34 said...

    Every time this topic has come up in the past the person/people have been laughed out of the building.

    Everyone could use a DFS friend to bounce ideas off of. The real opportunity, especially for RG, is to have some type of convention (for lack of a better term) where some of the top players dicuss research routines, bankroll management, lineup building, etc, etc, etc. Yes, you can read this om the internet but there’s something about working with top players hands-on.

    Cal and the rest of the RG crew can send me royalties for this idea. I’ll accept them.

    Royalties for what? Isn’t that what the RG Kickoff Party in Vegas is?

  • 00oreo00

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Here is a different idea:

    I would give a student my FanDuel NBA lineup for $50. I would email it 5-10 mins before lock. All they would need to do is agree to stay away from the all GPP’s $200 or more.

    I have nothing to lose by doing this as most of my FD action is in H2H. I would be happy to include the reasoning behind the picks in an email sometime after lineup lock.

  • madmanjayWV

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    Is there a market for this in the DFS world? I know the topic has come up in the past but generally gets ignored. Perhaps the growth of the industry would make this more viable?

    I’m not specifically trying to get into the market of doing this, but I think it’s worth a general discussion.

    OF COURSE THERE IS?
    But aren’t all U R doing is really selling lineups at the heart of it?

  • AtGame7

    @madmanjayWV said...

    OF COURSE THERE IS?
    But aren’t all U R doing is really selling lineups at the heart of it?

    I hope not. I don’t really want to buy anyone’s lineup, but if they teach me how they constructed it I am all in. Let’s face it, even the experts don’t know every player in every sport yet they find a way to be successful at everything. They obviously are relying on stat analysis to make their lineup, I’d pay to see exactly what it is they are looking at to consistently find a winning lineup in every sport.

  • Breakerfall

    @00oreo00 said...

    Here is a different idea:

    I would give a student my FanDuel NBA lineup for $50. I would email it 5-10 mins before lock. All they would need to do is agree to stay away from the all GPP’s $200 or more.

    I have nothing to lose by doing this as most of my FD action is in H2H. I would be happy to include the reasoning behind the picks in an email sometime after lineup lock.

    done

  • saulgoodman

    • 252

      RG Overall Ranking

    lol at this thread

  • uncforte

    I have a friend who would be very interested in this. If you’re serious, PM me and I’ll get you in touch with him. He would have a few questions (he’s a business person not really a DFS person) and would be happy to do this.

  • MJordan23

    I am in the process of switching from poker to DFS. I would absolutely pay for coaching to help expedite this process. Please PM if you, or another credible successful player decides to move forward with coaching.

  • yaleg34

    @00oreo00 said...

    Here is a different idea:

    I would give a student my FanDuel NBA lineup for $50. I would email it 5-10 mins before lock. All they would need to do is agree to stay away from the all GPP’s $200 or more.

    I have nothing to lose by doing this as most of my FD action is in H2H. I would be happy to include the reasoning behind the picks in an email sometime after lineup lock.

    do you honestly believe a player would be EV+ paying you 50 dollars a day for 1 GPP lineup they could enter in all tourneys under 200? I do not believe this is feasible… yes, a good business for you, but a bad one for the customer.

  • 00oreo00

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @yaleg34 said...

    do you honestly believe a player would be EV+ paying you 50 dollars a day for 1 GPP lineup they could enter in all tourneys under 200? I do not believe this is feasible… yes, a good business for you, but a bad one for the customer.

    My lineups tend to be more cash game oriented, but they do fine in smaller GPP’s. I would expect a potential customer to play a significant amount of cash games to offset the cost of the lineup. This deal would definitely not be EV+ for lower stake grinders.

    It would also be a hybrid coaching model as I would email the reasoning behind each pick. I would also be open to coaching and sharing my algorithm/model for the right price.

  • yaleg34

    oreo,

    just trying to keep this an intellectual discussion. Seems to me you are one of the biggest grinders out there, especially in NBA. At what price would it be worth it for you to share your model/algo? Its just hard for me to understand how any price would be worth it in an environment where the game is so incredibly soft and we are not yet post peak in terms of new players/dead money coming into the game…?

    if someone offered you $50,000 or $100,000 for your algo/model so they could replicate it exactly on FD/DK and all the other major sites, would you really do that? seems like you would be canniabalzing your own “product”, assuming you are as good as you (or throw in name pro/coach) feel you are.

    One thing i find so dramatically fascinating about this whole thread, is people are assuming cause someone has a name and a high grinder ranking that they have some sort of value in coaching… Like what if a guy has been break-even in all cash games and tournaments, has been grinding for 2-3 years, but has 2 or 3 serious binks in tourneys which has sustained them in terms of volume and ability to keep their name in the forefront of the industry? Does that really make them a great player?

    People seem interested in paying for whatever is available to get better, even if they have no real clue what they are buying. That said, its fantastic for the coach/provider of said info and awful for the customer. However, the customer is seemingly too stupid/greedy/uninformed to know better or differently.

    Tons of people think they are going to transition from poker to DFS, like its so easy and these coaches are going to have the answer. I think people are going to find out the hard way that its extremely difficult, and there will likely be less winners in DFS then there are in poker due to the nature/setup of the game and the ability to play action against so many opponents and in essence multi table with much more ease and the fact that you don’t lose any of your “sharpness” in doing so.

    In any event, this mini rant got a little off track, but I feel like for most people (those who feel they are buying a product which will give them a significant edge and can make a living off this game) they are absolutely kidding themselves. People like condia are not out there coaching and there is a reason for that, it would be a massive -EV mistake for him to do so.

    For those who just want to learn how to suck less, do not think they are going to make significant money playing this game, but enjoy it as a hobby and are “rolled” to pay for coaching and assume their results aren’t going to get that much better by doing so, then ok i see the market for this.

    My big issue is that people get “scammed” whether on purpose or not by people online selling lol lineups for $2.99/day or whatever some people are presently doing cause they think they are going to get some sort of edge. Anyone paying for this is a life fish, simply doesn’t get that the available lineups being sold will not make you a long term winner in the game, and almost anyone who is willing to sell their information is either doing it to delude people, or because they themselves are deluded about their abilities.

    Its just not logical to coach/sell information in a game which is so insanely lucrative for the best of the best and can so easily be replicated by others once learned, and flat out cuts into the coaches/information providers profitability in a serious and recognizable way.

  • dizzle

    Yes, I’d be interested! If condia or killahB want me on their team and would coach. Just pm me.

    For real though I think it would be more beneficial for me to have a spreadsheet class

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    I think DFS is far too simplistic for coaching to make much sense. Not to mention that a lot of the guys who’d be interested in coaching are already putting their thought process out there for free. For every hour of coaching bought there’d be about 5 minutes of interesting info and 55 minutes of filler.

  • DmitryPolo

    What it really comes down to is algorithms/spreadsheets. Once you make one that works there is no need for anything else. Do yourself a favor, go on Khan Academy, learn some rudimentary calculus and statistics. If you don’t know how to use Excel I am sure there is a million videos out there on YouTube. Start out using your model in smaller contests and slowly refine it over time. THE END.

  • 00oreo00

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @yaleg34 said...

    oreo,

    just trying to keep this an intellectual discussion. Seems to me you are one of the biggest grinders out there, especially in NBA. At what price would it be worth it for you to share your model/algo? Its just hard for me to understand how any price would be worth it in an environment where the game is so incredibly soft and we are not yet post peak in terms of new players/dead money coming into the game…?

    if someone offered you $50,000 or $100,000 for your algo/model so they could replicate it exactly on FD/DK and all the other major sites, would you really do that? seems like you would be canniabalzing your own “product”, assuming you are as good as you (or throw in name pro/coach) feel you are.

    One thing i find so dramatically fascinating about this whole thread, is people are assuming cause someone has a name and a high grinder ranking that they have some sort of value in coaching… Like what if a guy has been break-even in all cash games and tournaments, has been grinding for 2-3 years, but has 2 or 3 serious binks in tourneys which has sustained them in terms of volume and ability to keep their name in the forefront of the industry? Does that really make them a great player?

    People seem interested in paying for whatever is available to get better, even if they have no real clue what they are buying. That said, its fantastic for the coach/provider of said info and awful for the customer. However, the customer is seemingly too stupid/greedy/uninformed to know better or differently.

    Tons of people think they are going to transition from poker to DFS, like its so easy and these coaches are going to have the answer. I think people are going to find out the hard way that its extremely difficult, and there will likely be less winners in DFS then there are in poker due to the nature/setup of the game and the ability to play action against so many opponents and in essence multi table with much more ease and the fact that you don’t lose any of your “sharpness” in doing so.

    In any event, this mini rant got a little off track, but I feel like for most people (those who feel they are buying a product which will give them a significant edge and can make a living off this game) they are absolutely kidding themselves. People like condia are not out there coaching and there is a reason for that, it would be a massive -EV mistake for him to do so.

    For those who just want to learn how to suck less, do not think they are going to make significant money playing this game, but enjoy it as a hobby and are “rolled” to pay for coaching and assume their results aren’t going to get that much better by doing so, then ok i see the market for this.

    My big issue is that people get “scammed” whether on purpose or not by people online selling lol lineups for $2.99/day or whatever some people are presently doing cause they think they are going to get some sort of edge. Anyone paying for this is a life fish, simply doesn’t get that the available lineups being sold will not make you a long term winner in the game, and almost anyone who is willing to sell their information is either doing it to delude people, or because they themselves are deluded about their abilities.

    Its just not logical to coach/sell information in a game which is so insanely lucrative for the best of the best and can so easily be replicated by others once learned, and flat out cuts into the coaches/information providers profitability in a serious and recognizable way.

    Well when it comes to me selling my lineup. I obviously would want repeat customers. It would be easy for you to verify that I did sell you the right lineup as I tend to use the same lineup for all contests that I enter.

    From my point of view. There is alot of action out there. I believe I can give it all away without reducing my EV significantly. It would also be nice to lock up some guaranteed income to subsidize my DFS play. The problem is how do I share my stuff in a profitable way for both parties?

    The biggest thing preventing people from coaching is time and cost. My time is worth more to me than $50/hour. It also does not make sense for most people to pay anywhere near $50 a hour for a coach.

    It might make more sense to sell packages. I don’t know. There are few situations that are worth it for both the coach and the student.

  • fadein34

    @benny11 said...

    Royalties for what? Isn’t that what the RG Kickoff Party in Vegas is?

    Bring something to the table benny. A dry sense of humor is tough enough in real life let alone on the Internet.

    Anyway, no the RG party is not what I’m talking about. I’m talking actual “workshops”. Am organized event that is built for educating players. The RG party is an additional opportunity to meet and speak with other players.

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