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  • cleanslate

    Does anyone find the DK GPPs appealing that are literally paying 2% or less to first place? I understand people don’t like everything to be top heavy, but does DK understand the concept of a MIDDLE GROUND whatsoever? Sadly, this is a serious question. They honestly seem to think in extreme terms only and offer tournaments now that are either super top heavy (over 20% to first place) or very top thin (2% or less to first).

    5-10% to first place is great too DK. I am really sick of this. The ridiculousness has culminated in the NBA $4 GPP for Tuesday night. Let’s examine this GPP more closely.

    -60k total prize pool
    -1k to first place, or 1.67% to first place
    -Even more ridiculous than the first place payout, the top 17-28% of the field gets only a 50% ROI!. So it’s like an awful double up where you have to beat out way more than half the field to min cash, but instead of doubling your money, you only get half of that! I can’t think of anything more ridiculous. Not only is there a really thin payout up top now, but a really thin payout on the bottom as well. Basically, spend $4 to get $6 back if you can’t crack the top 17%, and if you hit first place you only get 1.67% of the total prize pool.

    To me personally, this is literally the worst of both worlds. I honestly can’t understand who they think this is appealing to. If both the minimum and maximum cashes suck now, does anyone find this appealing? Again, serious question.

    If your only contribution to this thread is going to be “If you don’t like, it play on another site”, please don’t waste everyone’s time or even bother responding. I can’t think of a more tired and canned response. If you like this new payout that DK is offering on a regular basis, I’m open to hearing your reasons why. But if you hate it like I do, please chime in as well, as I am trying to be proactive and get them to change things in a way that the majority of players actually find appealing.

    I would really like to get things changed back to a more reasonable payout. At the very least, let’s make a minimum cash worth double your money, and a maximum cash worth at least 5% of the total prize pool.

  • SouthernShield

    You won’t want to hear this, but if you don’t like a payout structure, DON’T PLAY that contest. If you can’t find a payout structure you like on DK, find a site that you do like the payout structures.

    I’m not sure why they’re paying down to 28% of the field. 25% is the most they should ever pay out. I’m happier with 20% and don’t like playing 18% or less. I do sometimes play some 18% if I really like a slate.

  • crazypaul

    I’m pretty sure DK offers a variety of contests that offer varying payout structures. They did this because people hated the top-heavy tournaments. The Milly Maker is still very top heavy if thats what you’re into.

  • cleanslate

    Guys, I know it’s long, but please read the ENTIRE post. Are we honestly saying that there is nothing between paying over 20% to first OR paying 2% or less to first? This is a really illogical conclusion.

    Also, do you realize that a $6 min cash on a $4 buy in is as bad of a minimum payout as they have ever offered on any top heavy tourney? If they are giving you such a bad minimum cash payout, how does this help people that hate top heavy payouts?

    I never suggested they do only top heavy payouts, I’m simply asking for a nice balanced payout that lies somewhere in the middle.

  • cleanslate

    @crazypaul said...

    I’m pretty sure DK offers a variety of contests that offer varying payout structures. They did this because people hated the top-heavy tournaments. The Milly Maker is still very top heavy if thats what you’re into.

    For smaller sport GPPs, which NBA preseason GPPs currently fall into the category of, they are not offering a variety of payout structures. I agree they are offering a lot of different payout options for NFL and give them credit for that.

  • crazypaul

    @cleanslate said...

    For smaller sport GPPs, which NBA preseason GPPs currently fall into the category of, they are not offering a variety of payout structures.

    I didnt realize you were specifically speaking about NBA. It will be interesting to see how they handle the regular season. There wont be as many contests as there is in NFL, but hopefully we get 3 payout structures. (A Boom or Bust, A Flat, and something more like your speaking of). BTW, I hate the contests that pay 1.5x, but I also hate the GPP’s that pay out a large % to 1st place. Id prefer a flat payout that pays about 18% of the field with a 2x min as opposed to these 20-30% 1.5x min GPP’s.

  • cleanslate

    @crazypaul said...

    I didnt realize you were specifically speaking about NBA. It will be interesting to see how they handle the regular season. There wont be as many contests as there is in NFL, but hopefully we get 3 payout structures. (A Boom or Bust, A Flat, and something more like your speaking of). BTW, I hate the contests that pay 1.5x, but I also hate the GPP’s that pay out a large % to 1st place. Id prefer a flat payout that pays about 18% of the field with a 2x min as opposed to these 20-30% 1.5x min GPP’s.

    Yes, I agree with you, in the middle is where the sweet spot lies. In a perfect world, I would like to see them offer one really top heavy, low buy in GPP per week for NBA, and then have very balanced payout GPPs the other 6 days of the week. I’m trying to get this discussion going now before the regular season begins because I would hate to see them ruin their product simply with bad payouts.

    As FD does not offer late swap, a function that is critical for NBA more than any other sport, I really would prefer to keep most of my NBA action on DK this year. If their plan is to offer 2% or less payouts to first place, with really bad minimum cash payouts as well, I may have to change my plan on that unfortunately.

  • ASalvaro

    like in tonight’s four point play

    i could care less about winning $6 for a $4 entry

    2981st – 4980th $6.00 should be eliminated

  • HungryHungryHip

    I don’t know how the NBA contests will play out but I personally like the 25-30% payout on some GPPs, especially the $9-27 contests for NFL. I agree on the smaller contests($3-4) that a $5 or $6 win isn’t appealing but that’s personal preference. I know some people like the GPP only pay out 18-20% of the field but I stay away from them because if you are more of a GPP player those contests are instant death if you’re playing a lot of volume. You have to be near perfect to cash and even if you squeak into the money you’ll be lucky to break even.

    I’ve seen numerous different GPP structures for NFL(some only paying out 20%, others as high as 29-30%. I’m guessing the NBA will be the same and I like it this way. There’s something for everyone.

  • osuryanf

    The payout in the $4 60k is beyond idiotic for tonight..

    …. but why do you think the site’s doing it? The more people that cash, the more money that stays on the site, the more money Draftkings makes..

    Their logic is simple to see, just frustrating for players.

  • SJR

    I completely agree

    Preseason NBA has been so soft but with $1K top prize in a $60K pool, I’m not even bothering. Same thing with the big $3 football, ~$1.5M pool and they’re still paying $50K to first

  • peachfuzz

    • Blogger of the Month

    Actually, the middle parts of the prize structure tonight makes it pretty decent if you’re throwing in multiple lineups. The top prize, and paying out 28% are pretty garbage though.

    I sincerely hope they don’t continue that trend throughout the season.

  • donkshow

    • 859

      RG Overall Ranking

    @SJR said...

    Preseason NBA has been so soft but with $1K top prize in a $60K pool

    Yeah, that is a joke.

  • MrFantasy

    They do it this way so that players don’t notice the rake increases so much. Flat payouts means players money lasts longer. That is what they care about. Rake is their only concern.

  • theseige

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @MrFantasy said...

    They do it this way so that players don’t notice the rake increases so much. Flat payouts means players money lasts longer. That is what they care about. Rake is their only concern.

    It’s the flat payouts + rake increase that’s the problem just gets them the money cycled more which is good for nobody but them but that being said they have to make money eventually so I get it just annoying.

  • ihaveareputation

    • x2

      2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    I’ve posted this link before, but I fully agree with Smizzle on this one: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/the-perfect-gpp-payout-structure-538705.

  • MrFantasy

    @theseige said...

    It’s the flat payouts + rake increase that’s the problem just gets them the money cycled more which is good for nobody but them but that being said they have to make money eventually so I get it just annoying.

    Which is what they want. They started off with BIG prizes to first to get people interested and hooked on DFS. People had their eye on the prize. With such top heavy payout structures players were losing too quickly so now rather then gain more players they are trying to retain players. I don’t have data or anything that would suggest that but it makes perfect sense. They are more worried about keeping their player base and cycling the money around more.

  • jonathan627

    I am totally on board with this. Played NBA every night on DK so far this preseason, but I’m pulling all my action off of there today with that ridiculous 1K top prize. Kind of insulting to the players imo.

  • cleanslate

    I really appreciate everyone’s responses so far and will be sure to pass this thread along to DK. It seems pretty clear that most people aren’t a big fan of this type of payout, at least from the responses so far.

    I understand how important player retention is to the sites, but I wish they would come up with more creative ideas on how to get more people to cash. One example/idea would be to send out a promotional email where, if you join the biggest low dollar GPP on a given night, you will have special access to a similarly priced double up that is run at a lower rake or even rake free on occasion. Not only does DK get the regular rake on the GPP that night, they are then also getting additional revenue on the invite only double up, albeit at a lower rake amount. But additional revenue is additional revenue.

    This would allow more people to have a better chance of getting their money back through the double up while simultaneously keeping GPPs more appealing. This is just one idea, I could honestly come up with another 5-10 ideas if I made the effort. All of them would benefit both the user and the site. I wish DK had more forward thinking people and were doing the same thing on their end.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

    Can’t have a good GPP structure with 30% getting paid, it won’t work… pretty soon they’ll stop trying and just make it where 100% get paid and we all get $0.85 back on each dollar spent, everybody wins!

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    So don’t play those contests or found a daily DFS site where you payout 30% to the top.

  • MrFantasy

    GPP’s have always paid out way too many spots. The closer to 15% that they pay out the better payout structures will be. It doesn’t even need to be top heavy and can still be flat. Nobody wants to return $5 on a $3 buy in. At the very least they could make it $8 minimum payout.

  • tprokopenko

    I don’t think top prize should really be more than 5%. The main issue is that you should always at least get 2x your buy-in for minimum cashing. A structure paying 15-20% of the field should make this extremely easy, while having a nice payout progression culminating with a 5% first place.

  • slcseas

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that sites generally suck at effectively responding to feedback. They ignore it completely until a boiling point is reached, and then go equally bad in the opposite direction.

  • walkoff9

    I get the idea of making more people “winners”, but at the $3 level I would think they would keep more people playing with those huge first prizes.

    I think plenty of people will just accept that they are not going to grind out a profit in the long run, and for their entertainment dollars would much rather a shot at a huge prize, at that $3 buyin level.

  • cvalenti

    like trophies in little league…

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