MLB FORUM

  • DcSports89

    So I put in about at least 2 hours a day of research for every slate. But I never look at how batters hit vs certain pitches. I don’t because that would add a lot more time than I already put in. I was just wondering how important it is to put in that research for you guys? I already look at bvp, L/R matchups, park factors, woba etc…just wanna know if I’m on the right track here, thoughts?

  • superstars92

    I just started playing, so not really an expert. I don’t have 2 hours to put in, so I never would even have the time to look at what you are talking about. However, I do agree with what you are saying. A lot of people just look at Player x vs. Pitcher y. However, there are other pitchers who are “similar” to y. So if you can find how Player x does against “similar Pitchers to Pitcher y,” (like he throws a lot of sinkers, and this player hits sinkers well), it probably is better for you. Not sure where you can find the data though.

  • DcSports89

    You can find it on fangraphs I believe. But it would take sooooo much time to look at every player. I generally just got by splits and call it a day. Never look at individual pitches but I’ve heard of guys looking at that

  • superstars92

    Oh yea if that’s taking a ton of time looking through individual pitchers, I think you should try to make a database with a quick way to look up stuff (like on Excel where you can create some table that quickly matches pitchers vs. batters). I probably will do this whenever I have the time.

  • Heterodox

    @superstars92 said...

    A lot of people just look at Player x vs. Pitcher y. However, there are other pitchers who are “similar” to y. So if you can find how Player x does against “similar Pitchers to Pitcher y,” (like he throws a lot of sinkers, and this player hits sinkers well), it probably is better for you. Not sure where you can find the data though.

    You are on the right track here with pitcher types. I think baseball reference has defined a few categories, or “buckets” or whatever, but I don’t use that site so I don’t know how in-depth it is. I believe they have stats vs pitcher types. I’ve never gone too far down this road, but it’s supposed to be the solution to the BvP sample size problem.

    But OP is talking about pitch types, and to him I would say there’s probably not a lot of value to be found there. A couple years ago, I made a convoluted spreadsheet that matched each batter against the pitcher they were facing, color coding it to spot strengths vs weaknesses. I don’t recall a single instance of it leading me to a play that paid off. I do recall specific instances where I moved off of players and onto teammates, only to watch the guy who crushes his opponent’s best pitch do nothing, while the guy who struggles against it goes off. Of course, that’s just me, and only a few instances, not like it’s a comprehensive analysis or anything.
    More to the point, pitch-type stats are more descriptive in nature. Hitters and pitchers (and catchers) do extensive scouting on their opponents. They know who does what well. Why would a pitcher serve up pitches that he knows the batter he’s facing hits well? You’re banking on him making a mistake, basically, and there are better ways to find pitchers who make mistakes like that.

    One thing that I’ve found to be useful, which I’m not sure if a lot of people look at, is strike-zone tendencies. Obviously, teams that swing and miss a lot vs pitchers who get a lot of swinging strikes are typically good match ups for the pitcher. But sometimes a pitcher who gets a lot of swinging strikes has a high out of zone percentage, while his opponent who swings and misses a lot has a low out of zone swing percentage. So that match up might not be as juicy as it appears. It can also help you find good spots to use bad to mediocre pitchers. A guy might have a high walk rate, but he’s facing a team that swings wildly at pitches out of the zone. I assume people look at plate discipline for hitters, and command for pitchers (in the form of BB%/K%/ability to go deep in games, etc.), that much seems obvious, but i don’t often hear people talk about in/out strike zone tendencies.

  • wolfjb1

    The data is definitely out there. There are podcasts (although they’re from competitors, not from RG, so I’m not sure if this post will get deleted) where the hosts regularly talk about the pitch that a guy throws and how a hitter performs against a certain pitch. I assume it’s available on Fangraphs, but I“m not sure and I’ll never have time to do my own research.

  • ATL_Gunner

    I am trying (unsuccessfully right now) to find an article I read on fangraphs once that basically came to the conclusion that there is a lot of noise in batters vs specific pitch data – that batter stats aren’t very consistent year to year, and it may not be reliable. However, I like to use baseball-reference’s pitcher type buckets as someone alluded to above. If you go to a hitter’s splits page it will give you tOPS ratings for batters vs power/normal/finesse and flyball/normal/groundball pitchers. It’s not as perfect as saying “this guy hits sinkers well and sucks vs sliders” but it’s much more time efficient.

  • Phinsfan83

    You can go to the lineup page and click on the batter and it gives a star rating for the day against that type of pitcher. I don’t pay much attention to it. wOBA and ISO are the main things to look at. Oh and find out what the pitchers weakness is handedness wise. Some are neutral splits some are weak to one handed batter ect..

  • ATL_Gunner

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=pederjo01&year=Career&t=b#all_power

    Here’s why I think it’s valuable. When I have a full allotment of time to research, I like to look at wOBA and ISO to start. Once I have narrowed down some hitters to target I like to look at hitter’s splits against pitcher types. In Joc’s case above, I want to find groundball pitchers with low strikeout rates. If Mike Pelfrey ever pitches against the Dodgers…

  • nvalencia30

    • x2

      2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    The timing of this thread is perfect: Check out the latest RG tool.

    https://rotogrinders.com/plateiq

  • DcSports89

    The new plateIQ is great but I still can’t find woba vs pitches. Can anyone help a brotha out?

  • AlexSonty

    • Blogger of the Month

    dcsports, not to derail the thread with a BvP debate, if you are prioritizing because of a finite amount of time for research, ignore BvP and go to Fangraphs for pitch type research. I think that is a pretty easy trade-off, no matter what your thoughts on BvP.

  • DcSports89

    im looking for Woba vs pitch type specifically and i have not been able to find it on fangraphs, or anywhere. Thats why im asking if anyone can send me a link or anything

  • KindGuy

    @DcSports89 said...

    im looking for Woba vs pitch type specifically and i have not been able to find it on fangraphs, or anywhere. Thats why im asking if anyone can send me a link or anything

    Baseballsavant

  • AlexSonty

    • Blogger of the Month

    @DcSports89 said...

    im looking for Woba vs pitch type specifically and i have not been able to find it on fangraphs, or anywhere. Thats why im asking if anyone can send me a link or anything

    Yes, baseballsavant.mlb.com is what you’re looking for.

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