NHL FORUM

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  • SteveM

    All are one entry each from different players who I don’t recognize. Anybody know what’s going on? Seems shady.

  • madmanjayWV

    thanks for posting the link ^^^^^^^
    NOT SHADY — #DOMINATION

    You need to get better DFS buddies perhaps??

    When you can’t afford to spend $600 to max out a GPP just chime in with a conglomerate and roll on #DATWINNINGTRAIN!!!

  • Nobakov

    LU seller obv.

    Places 1-3 in the Face-Off too- https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/37761387

    Ain’t no optimizer spitting out that LU.

  • blake024

    There were some other entries that were one or two players off from being identical to this lineup. The following people finished between 60th and 80th and were one player off from matching that very lineup.

    UhaveNoidea
    quadsevens (11/26)
    quadsevens (21/26)
    hawk9190 (6/9)
    rmmdc6
    trbradle (112/150)

    If there was collusion or if that winning lineup was purchased, so what? It’s not like the people who made it knew the future somehow ahead of time. There also wasn’t a lot of starpower on tonight’s slate except for Crosby, Malkin and Letang. CHI, WSH, BOS were off tonight, so with the exception of Connor McDavid and V. Taraseko, PITs big 3 was about it. I even had both Malkin and Crosby together in some of my lineups, I also had LeTang in about half.

    So if you think about it, you draft Malkin Crosby and LeTang, you don’t have a lot of cap $ left so I could definitely see how your beginner/amateur player could have come up with that lineup. If you can afford Eberle and Gostisbehere after taking PITs big 3 you would be a fool not to take them. Point is, I think that this was an incredibly rare incident where a few amatuer players let the salary cap dictate their lineup selections and because of that they just happened to stumble on all the right players. On any given night in NHL you will find many identical lineups drafted by different usernames. 99.999% of the time those lineups don’t win first or even come close. These players have no more knowledge of the future than any of us, so the idea that there was some kind of cheating going on doesn’t make sense.

    You can collaborate with your friend to draft identical lineups but that doesn’t necessarily mean that lineup is guaranteed to be successful. You can buy a lineup from a website but that doesn’t necessarily mean that lineup is guaranteed to be successful.

  • dude_abides7

    @blake024 said...

    f there was collusion or if that winning lineup was purchased, so what?

    Yeah man – So what!

    Who cares about optics, the DFS ecosystem or DFS being around in 1-2 years. This is great fun! Get your piece of the pie before it’s gone!

  • sizzlebeans

    Stuff like this just shows the little fish like me who wastes hours throughout the week researching just to maintain an even bankroll is wasting my time and money. Dfs is for max entry and conglomerates. Not sure I want to play anymore. I need to switch to studying the stock market instead. Except you don’t get to watch stocks go head to head for 60 minutes every night.

    I know, I know “just build better lineups bro”! I’m trying, and it’s not working and it’s not worth continuing. DFS is a red water game. No sense in sticking around. I can’t afford to max enter every tournament, which is how to win in the NHL. You’re going to have a way better shot hitting a profit with 150 vs 5-10 tries.

  • Zieg30

    • 379

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    @sizzlebeans said...

    Stuff like this just shows the little fish like me who wastes hours throughout the week researching just to maintain an even bankroll is wasting my time and money. Dfs is for max entry and conglomerates. Not sure I want to play anymore. I need to switch to studying the stock market instead. Except you don’t get to watch stocks go head to head for 60 minutes every night.

    I know, I know “just build better lineups bro”! I’m trying, and it’s not working and it’s not worth continuing. DFS is a red water game. No sense in sticking around. I can’t afford to max enter every tournament, which is how to win in the NHL. You’re going to have a way better shot hitting a profit with 150 vs 5-10 tries.

    I responded to this post of yours in last night’s NHL thread, but I’ll add to my response here.

    It was a bad lineup. And, oddly, it shows that you don’t need to enter 150 lineups to win a DFS GPP, given that those lineup purchasers (and, sure, that lineup could have been spit out by an optimizer, but I really don’t think so. And I also don’t see how that particular lineup, and other slight variations of it, came about independently. Amateurs rarely play D-men in their utility spot) weren’t multi-entering and still won!

    Edit: Also, one is going to have a way better shot winning a GPP with 150 vs. 5-10 tries. Most of us are NOT going to have a way better shot hitting a PROFIT with 150 vs. 5-10 tries.

  • donkshow

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    You’re not going to see this happen the rest of the season.

    Once per year a lineup sell gets an explosive team like this. Who cares, move on. For every 1 time you see this, there’s 100 times where it min-cashes or misses. Their teams are primarily made for cash games, look at the awful lineup construction there!

  • kellykip

    • 668

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    Those top 3 finishers in the Faceoff are more than welcome to enter it anytime; now that they have the secret formula I hope to see them in the $40 Saturday Shootout putting their hard earned winnings to work!

  • Messiah717

    I’ve always mostly just played NFL games. I’ve been playing NHL for about a month now and just trying to get better. I played eight lineups last night and my top four scores were as follows.

    51.1, 49.2, 47.6 and 45.6

    I haven’t been confident enough yet NHL wise to get into the higher dollar contests so I’m not sure where any of those scores would’ve landed me. I’ve become resigned to the fact that mass entry, lineup selling and sharks entering every contest is going to occur. I don’t see it changing anytime soon so it’s either don’t play at all, play for fun collecting some winnings here and there or possibly get lucky one night and take down a tournament.

  • mberkowi

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    @Nobakov said...

    LU seller obv.

    Places 1-3 in the Face-Off too- https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/37761387

    Ain’t no optimizer spitting out that LU.

    It actually does look like an optimizer that should tweak some settings. If that was a lineup seller, I hope somebody outs them and they become the most popular seller around. That lineup is hot garbage.

  • sizzlebeans

    @Zieg30 said...

    Edit: Also, one is going to have a way better shot winning a GPP with 150 vs. 5-10 tries. Most of us are NOT going to have a way better shot hitting a PROFIT with 150 vs. 5-10 tries.

    Not sure I agree. You only need a handful of those line-ups to hit top 100 to get back your investment. If you know the game well enough, eventually, you’re going to hit a top 5 finish and from then on you’re playing on house money.

  • mberkowi

    • 167

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    @sizzlebeans said...

    Stuff like this just shows the little fish like me who wastes hours throughout the week researching just to maintain an even bankroll is wasting my time and money. Dfs is for max entry and conglomerates.

    I don’t have the link for the Forecheck, but I’m willing to bet most if not all the lineups tied were single entries. You picked the wrong argument. If these guys worked together in a mass multi entry GPP to not circumvent entry limits, they are the dumbest of the dumb. I guess they did play Ladd, Ennis and Eberle without McDavid, so maybe you are correct.

  • Messiah717

    It would be helpful to see the link to the contest being discussed.

  • Heterodox

    @mberkowi said...

    It actually does look like an optimizer that should tweak some settings. If that was a lineup seller, I hope somebody outs them and they become the most popular seller around. That lineup is hot garbage.

    I think an optimizer might have produced that lineup if they locked in Crosby/Malkin/Letang, which is something people who don’t know much about hockey could easily arrive at.

    I know we’re having some fun with this, but if this was a purchased lineup, I think the sites are doing their customers a major disservice by not educating them about lineup sellers and the poor quality lineups they’re buying, assuming that only people who don’t know better would do so. Somebody should out them as con artists, and make sure they don’t get to rip more people off in the future.

  • Heterodox

    @blake024 said...

    There were some other entries that were one or two players off from being identical to this lineup. The following people finished between 60th and 80th and were one player off from matching that very lineup.

    There was another guy in the train who had that lineup as his first entry and his ninth entry, and he had another one that was sitting in 43rd last I saw, that was identical but for one spot, where he swapped Bogosian out for Oscar Lindberg. Something Mucciacco, I can’t check right now.

  • sizzlebeans

    @Heterodox said...

    I think an optimizer might have produced that lineup if they locked in Crosby/Malkin/Letang, which is something people who don’t know much about hockey could easily arrive at.

    I know we’re having some fun with this, but if this was a purchased lineup, I think the sites are doing their customers a major disservice by not educating them about lineup sellers and the poor quality lineups they’re buying, assuming that only people who don’t know better would do so. Somebody should out them as con artists, and make sure they don’t get to rip more people off in the future.

    This seems like the most likely case.

  • wolfjb1

    Donkshow has it right. This happens once or twice a season in the daily sports. Happens in MLB, too. You look at 15 winning LUs and just scratch your head.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day, a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut, etc.

    Having said that, I’m an NFL and MLB guy so I just screw around with NBA and NHL from time to time. Last night, I cashed on all five of my mini-saucer lineups on FD. I spent 10 minutes “researching” (reading the incentives articles on RG). I locked in the Kings line that went off and Byfuglien and had the RG optimizer spit out five LUs. I took first, third, sixth, fifteenth and seventeenth.

  • wolfjb1

    @Heterodox said...

    I think the sites are doing their customers a major disservice by not educating them about lineup sellers and the poor quality lineups they’re buying, assuming that only people who don’t know better would do so. Somebody should out them as con artists, and make sure they don’t get to rip more people off in the future.

    Why would sites want to prevent chumps from playing with crappy lineups? It’s not in DK’s best interests to turn away losing lineups.

  • Heterodox

    @wolfjb1 said...

    Why would sites want to prevent chumps from playing with crappy lineups? It’s not in DK’s best interests to turn away losing lineups.

    This might be the dumbest comment ever.

    Yes, it is in their best interests, because people who lose don’t always come back, especially if they feel they’ve been ripped off. It’s in our interest too. Never mind your outright dismissal of any kind of ethical obligation. And you act like DK is on the other side of those lineups. What interest do they have in attracting losing lineups? They just want players, period.

    Also, I’m not in this to take money from “chumps”. I’m in this to put my skills up against the skills of others, and hopefully come out ahead. Your comment represents everything that’s been wrong with this industry from the get-go. Of course, someone who assumes that anyone whose knowledge isn’t as advanced as their own must be a “chump” probably doesn’t understand that.

  • wolfpack8181

    As a small time player I previously had an issue with this. However I have learned the line up selling won’t go away and it’s vary rare they all win a gpp. I am fine with it, it used to bother me but now I could less.
    Last night on fantasy draft my lineup was Crosby, Malkin, Horn, Eberle, tarasenko, and 2 cheaper options w Col Goalie. Pitts was in a great spot to score a bunch so they were obvious of top stack in tourney in cash I assume.
    just my 2 sense.

  • elementasrat

    @wolfjb1 said...

    Why would sites want to prevent chumps from playing with crappy lineups? It’s not in DK’s best interests to turn away losing lineups.

    It actually is. This was touched on in the thread about how DFS needs more skill.

    It’s the opposite. We need casuals to win in the short term so they feel they have a chance.

    Imagine if DK lets the “chumps” put out crappy lineups consistently. Soon, the ecosystem will dry up and it’ll be mid level vs skilled players.

  • Messiah717

    Lets face it. The sites need both the sharks multi entering every night and the novice players throwing in a few of their lineups to keep the tournament winnings at a high enough level. Plus, yes the sites do actually want to make money for themselves.

  • Champ

    ACTUALLY…you can watch stocks go head to head essentially. Financial markets are extremely extremely complex. YOu could trade binary pairs throughout the day, and do essentially what you could do in DFS times 100.

  • zshoom

    • 883

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    It’s possible that this lineup was created in an (incredibly lucky) optimizer. Say somebody plugs in Crosby, Letang, Malkin and Lehner (who was pricey on DK last night). That doesn’t leave much room to create a lineup. Eberle and Ghost are great value/$. The Sabres punts could’ve been added because they were facing the Avs. I’m not sure how Ladd got in there, but I’m also not sure how he gets into a lineup seller’s lineup either.

    This lineup was incredibly lucky – it literally worked out as good as it possibly could have, and still didn’t win first. 99/100 times, having lineups like this flood the contest helps push the typical player up towards the cashline, not vice versa.

    Suspicious, sure…but not a problem in NHL DFS most nights. I don’t play on DK that often, but on FD the winning lineups are usually of the “why didn’t I think of that” variety. This lineup was definitely not that…

  • SteveM

    If this is (as it appears) a case of idiots buying a poorly-constructed lineup and getting lucky, then for the sake of my bottom line I hope they continue to do it. Much more serious cheating would be the opposite type – nonoverlapping lineups that circumvent max entry limits (and has been documented in other threads). For reasons that should be obvious, it’s not even wise to duplicate one’s own entry in a big GPP, because that so significantly reduces the ROI of the 2nd, 3rd, etc. entry now that 1st place is no longer possible. When they lose they lose the same amount, but their max win, which accounts for a lot of their overall EV, is much lower. For this reason alone I would not share one of my lineups even with my best friend – it’s just plain stupid. Like entering a GPP for which you are ineligible for 1st (and maybe 2nd, 3rd, etc.), place. Why bother? In the Forecheck, when those guys were all in 1st place I think they were cashing for a bit over $400 instead of the $3000 1st place pays. LOL – I’d be so pissed! As a GPP player I would so much rather play against 28 identical lineups than 28 individual ones. So for my sake, guys, have at it. Please keep doing this.

    But there are 2 real issues here, I think.

    1) These guys were idiots, but the strategy itself would be possibly profitable in tourneys with different structure like 50/50s or HU, so people who still play those should be concerned.
    2) Lineup selling just simply looks bad for an industry that should be trying to grow its player base.

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