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  • crumbler81

    Hey, I just wanted to share a few of my thoughts on how greed seems to have taken over one of the best DFS websites. I remember the days when you could get good slate breakdowns without premium for all the main sports including CFB, but since the start of this NBA season everything except for the First Look is behind the paywall. Even Lineup HQ is broken for non-premium members. It’s really sad, and brand new DFS players are basically on their own now.

    I kind of saw this coming a few years ago when all NHL content went behind the paywall, and now the site is pretty much unusable. Not to mention the ridiculous cost of the CFB package, that needs to be included in the regular premium subscription to make it somewhat affordable.

    Anyone else remember the state of RG before CFB DFS went away a few years back?

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @crumbler81 said...

    Hey, I just wanted to share a few of my thoughts on how greed seems to have taken over one of the best DFS websites. I remember the days when you could get good slate breakdowns without premium for all the main sports including CFB, but since the start of this NBA season everything except for the First Look is behind the paywall. Even Lineup HQ is broken for non-premium members. It’s really sad, and brand new DFS players are basically on their own now.

    I kind of saw this coming a few years ago when all NHL content went behind the paywall, and now the site is pretty much unusable. Not to mention the ridiculous cost of the CFB package, that needs to be included in the regular premium subscription to make it somewhat affordable.

    Anyone else remember the state of RG before CFB DFS went away a few years back?

    You do make rational sense in your post. However, if you find value in RG’s products, why should they give them away for free?

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    There is still plenty of free content offered as you can see on this page: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/2019-20-rg-nba-content-now-featuring-premium-projections-from-notorious-and-crew-3165302

    Times have changed unfortunately. It’s a much different landscape than it was back then.

  • Southie777

    I don’t have a problem with much of the analysis being behind the paywall, I don’t expect them to give it away for free. I just wish there was a little more NHL content. Getting rid of the Grind Down and videos for the big slates on Tuesdays/Thursdays/Saturdays is brutal. I find much more info in the Forum now. I get that hockey is not nearly as popular as some other sports. I’m a lifelong hockey fan, believe me I’m used to it. But I just wish they’d have a few more articles/videos, not just projections.

  • yisman

    @Southie777 said...

    I don’t have a problem with much of the analysis being behind the paywall, I don’t expect them to give it away for free. I just wish there was a little more NHL content. Getting rid of the Grind Down and videos for the big slates on Tuesdays/Thursdays/Saturdays is brutal. I find much more info in the Forum now. I get that hockey is not nearly as popular as some other sports. I’m a lifelong hockey fan, believe me I’m used to it. But I just wish they’d have a few more articles/videos, not just projections.

    yeah, the hockey content is pretty much gone this season

  • Southie777

    Yeah, if I wasn’t hanging on for the football content, I’d be done for premium until baseball season.

  • bluestooges

    Does RG still get a referral bonus from FD,DK ect from people that used to get indefinite access.

  • wolfjb1

    @bhdevault said...

    There is still plenty of free content offered as you can see on this page: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/2019-20-rg-nba-content-now-featuring-premium-projections-from-notorious-and-crew-3165302

    Times have changed unfortunately. It’s a much different landscape than it was back then.

    I don’t have a reference point for the past, but as a premium member I think you guys already give away way, way too much content for free! (I also own a business in my regular life and I don’t give any of my goods and services away for free, and I’d be an idiot to give away free work). By the way, if you play NBA, MLB or NFL, Morning Grind is one of the best kept secrets out there. Or maybe not a secret, but it’s one of the best things going. The work that StevieTPFL puts in every single weekday, pretty much every week of the year, year after year after year is mind-blowing.

  • bigez952

    I agree with Wolf in that there should be little to nothing for free with the high prices that are being charged for premium content. One of the reasons I got rid of my premium content was due to the fact that so much what I was using I could get for free that it was really hard to justify what at the time was $200 a year. Now that price has doubled so I would hope that more content would be behind paywalls to justify charging so much.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    There’s times I miss having that stuff to use as a reference, but in some ways I’m kind of happy it’s behind a paywall, because more often than not the free info would just confirm my own beliefs/data and meanwhile broadcast it to players I’d otherwise have an edge on…
    But that said, I’d understand anyone being salty or disappointed in the site. Offering something people love and rely on and taking it away to put behind a paywall is always going to piss people off, and it’s understandable. I also get it from RG’s end too…so just a crap transition to have to make.

  • stevietpfl

    Morning Grind co-host, Lead NASCAR Analyst

    • 202

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #29

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    @wolfjb1 said...

    By the way, if you play NBA, MLB or NFL, Morning Grind is one of the best kept secrets out there. Or maybe not a secret, but it’s one of the best things going. The work that StevieTPFL puts in every single weekday, pretty much every week of the year, year after year after year is mind-blowing.

    Appreciate the kind words, thanks for listening.

  • squidkill

    @stevietpfl said...

    Appreciate the kind words, thanks for listening.

    You have been a staple for years. The grind is unimaginable. Also all those solo pods. Best thing left on RG that hasn’t changed in years. Thanks!

    Squid

  • harperera

    For you to call RG greedy is simply insulting. Rotogrinders employs several people if they did not require premium memberships to pay their employs how do you speculate they pay them? They also were recently sold in the past year and have certain plateaus in their contract that would earn them more money for the company and their employs if they reach certain levels. From what I have heard about RG premium members it is well worth the price. If you break it down it’s basically $1 a day for a daily player that is nothing. Maybe you should try a month of premium before you insult rotogrinders the company who offered you free data for years.

  • NIN1002

    The only thing that is really disappointing to me is for premium Yahoo only guys like myself, there is NOTHING for NHL. Yeah, I can get to the projections and the lineupHQ, but it’s hockey and it’s completely useless when every goalie has the same projected points scoring and ditto for the skaters. Whatever lack of content everyone else is complaining about for premium users….none of that is available to me. John Britt does a nice job with his write ups, and those other guys I could take it or leave it, but it’s all moot anyway as it’s all hidden away from me (as a premium member). At least last year the “other guys” blurbs would show up under the DFS alerts for NHL as premium content I could see….but I guess they quit doing that as well.

    Just would be nice to at least have access to a “human touch” of someone writing their thoughts instead of the entirely useless projections for NHL.

  • srk8987

    Managing Editor

    @NIN1002 said...

    The only thing that is really disappointing to me is for premium Yahoo only guys like myself, there is NOTHING for NHL. Yeah, I can get to the projections and the lineupHQ, but it’s hockey and it’s completely useless when every goalie has the same projected points scoring and ditto for the skaters. Whatever lack of content everyone else is complaining about for premium users….none of that is available to me. John Britt does a nice job with his write ups, and those other guys I could take it or leave it, but it’s all moot anyway as it’s all hidden away from me (as a premium member). At least last year the “other guys” blurbs would show up under the DFS alerts for NHL as premium content I could see….but I guess they quit doing that as well.

    Just would be nice to at least have access to a “human touch” of someone writing their thoughts instead of the entirely useless projections for NHL.

    Hi NIN1002 – we have been spending more and more resources on expanding our Yahoo content coverage in general. Along with adding Expert Rankings and Projected Ownership for Yahoo NFL/NBA and a Yahoo NBA tournament targets article on the large Wednesday/Friday slates, you should also have access to the NHL Expert Survey when there are 4+ games on the slate — on the big Tue/Thu/Sat slates, you can check out the NHL Slate Summary article. Yes, these are mostly focused on FD and DK contests, but that’s primarily because the NHL prize pools are so small on Yahoo.

    We did just look over your account and you have one of the few remaining active Yahoo All Access products, and that’s why you’ve been unable to access some of this content. We’ll quickly remedy that so that you can access everything. Please reach out to me via DM if you run into any trouble.

    Thanks for the feedback on the product, everyone. We’re always looking to improve where possible and will continue to evaluate the GPP offerings for all sites and adjust our resources as needed to match the prizes up for grabs.

  • SenderGreen

    Concur with those about how the free info just lessened the edge for the premium members, and the product is a pretty good value.

    I do have a gripe though. For NBA can y’all bring back the old First Look and basic DvP charts? I get the idea with DVA, RG is the only one doing it right now I believe. But the old First Look and skimming Core Plays / Tips we’re great when I’m too busy to do thorough research or listen to a show or podcast.

    Please RG respond. Thank you!

  • NoLimits0

    I have a better suggestion. RG should employ price discrimination like the way cable companies do it. You know how when you first sign up for a cable service it’s got some cheap package and then they increase it over time?

    So I suggest RG charge like say 2k/month to top users like moklovin, etc. You may ask well then they would unsubscribe. But I don’t think so. They pretty much rely on what RG spits out for them to make any sort of money (moklovin and others just borrow the optimal lineup for a ton of slates from NBA to NFL showdown etc) and without RG and other paid sites they wouldn’t make any money. So I’m sure they are willing to pay 2k/month.

    I would suggest something like this where the more you play volume wise on the sites you get charged more.

    Price discrimination usually never works because people would quit but it will work in only an industry like this where it’s an incentive based system for top users. It also works in the airline industry (first class seats are way more expensive than economy seats in an unreasonable ratio but it won’t stop the rich people from buying first class seats).

    This is what RG should do is charge like all the top pros like 2-5k/month and then slightly lessen the charge to others like the beginners who don’t play for as much volume so overall RG loses no profit. They can even make it almost free for new users on some content too. I am positive if ever optimizer site did this, none of the pros would stop paying since they rely on them.

    Also they have to do it per credit card name basis of course so people do pros don’t sign up for a new account under a different name.

    I think this is a simple solution that benefits everyone.

  • rgreuli

    @NoLimits0 said...

    I have a better suggestion. RG should employ price discrimination like the way cable companies do it. You know how when you first sign up for a cable service it’s got some cheap package and then they increase it over time?

    So I suggest RG charge like say 2k/month to top users like moklovin, etc. You may ask well then they would unsubscribe. But I don’t think so. They pretty much rely on what RG spits out for them to make any sort of money (moklovin and others just borrow the optimal lineup for a ton of slates from NBA to NFL showdown etc) and without RG and other paid sites they wouldn’t make any money. So I’m sure they are willing to pay 2k/month.

    I would suggest something like this where the more you play volume wise on the sites you get charged more.

    Price discrimination usually never works because people would quit but it will work in only an industry like this where it’s an incentive based system for top users. It also works in the airline industry (first class seats are way more expensive than economy seats in an unreasonable ratio but it won’t stop the rich people from buying first class seats).

    This is what RG should do is charge like all the top pros like 2-5k/month and then slightly lessen the charge to others like the beginners who don’t play for as much volume so overall RG loses no profit. They can even make it almost free for new users on some content too. I am positive if ever optimizer site did this, none of the pros would stop paying since they rely on them.

    Also they have to do it per credit card name basis of course so people do pros don’t sign up for a new account under a different name.

    I think this is a simple solution that benefits everyone.

    This has got to be one of the most asinine posts I’ve ever read on this forum.

  • superstars92

    • 124

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #79

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @NoLimits0 said...

    I have a better suggestion. RG should employ price discrimination like the way cable companies do it. You know how when you first sign up for a cable service it’s got some cheap package and then they increase it over time?

    So I suggest RG charge like say 2k/month to top users like moklovin, etc. You may ask well then they would unsubscribe. But I don’t think so. They pretty much rely on what RG spits out for them to make any sort of money (moklovin and others just borrow the optimal lineup for a ton of slates from NBA to NFL showdown etc) and without RG and other paid sites they wouldn’t make any money. So I’m sure they are willing to pay 2k/month.

    I would suggest something like this where the more you play volume wise on the sites you get charged more.

    Price discrimination usually never works because people would quit but it will work in only an industry like this where it’s an incentive based system for top users. It also works in the airline industry (first class seats are way more expensive than economy seats in an unreasonable ratio but it won’t stop the rich people from buying first class seats).

    This is what RG should do is charge like all the top pros like 2-5k/month and then slightly lessen the charge to others like the beginners who don’t play for as much volume so overall RG loses no profit. They can even make it almost free for new users on some content too. I am positive if ever optimizer site did this, none of the pros would stop paying since they rely on them.

    Also they have to do it per credit card name basis of course so people do pros don’t sign up for a new account under a different name.

    I think this is a simple solution that benefits everyone.

    You actually want the opposite to happen.

    Google RobinHood and see how all the brokers went to 0 commissions this year. What you are suggesting would actually be impossible to implement.

    What you really want from your perspective is a RobinHood to come along and then every optimizer site will have to release a lot of their info for much cheaper prices.

  • Taterchipdip

    Gone are the days of pepsi7 with Boggslite on free video tuesday and Thursday giving us very helpful advice on NHL.

    I guess when you” MAKE IT” in DFS you can drive around in your Lexus taking selfies of yourself and forget the little guy that loved your advice.

    Whatever happened to FastEddieFear on NBA? Theres another can of worms we could open couldn’t we?

  • saulgoodman

    for what its worth you guys are probably better off without pepsi and boggs giving you NHL advice

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