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  • thehazyone

    RG Contributor

    • Blogger of the Month

    http://www.odfreport.com/809/pokerstars-dfs-plans

    Can only be good for DFS. Pokerstars usually knows how to treat/reward it’s customers.

  • PJGuin23

    DFS Tax Guru

    @einars said...

    biggest reason that black friday wont happen to DFS??? taxes. US gov is getting theirs so they wont mess with it. Poker got hacked because it was ambiguous whether it was really legal or not and there was no way to make sure taxes were paid

    Not only that, you would be implicating the major payment processors. Also, Comcast, the major sports leagues and now possibly Disney are involved. I would say at this point DFS is too big to fail. No one is going to be that “moral” to remove it but weirder things have happened and the grassroots people part of the Coalition to Stop Internet Gambling want to target DFS as well. Question is how much influence do they really have?

  • jonconnington

    Pokerstars and Party had plenty of sponsors and ads on TV. Also, many poker players paid taxes. Many DFS players do not pay taxes. DFS is gambling. It would be great if no black Friday came, but I see it as inevitable.

  • ActionJunkie

    @jonconnington said...

    Pokerstars and Party had plenty of sponsors and ads on TV. Also, many poker players paid taxes. Many DFS players do not pay taxes. DFS is gambling. It would be great if no black Friday came, but I see it as inevitable.

    Well the law would disagree with you. DFS has bills in place to keep it upfloat (at least for now) where online poker did not. There MIGHT be regulation coming but we will see it a mile away where we did not for poker other than the initial 2006 stuff.

  • einars

    @jonconnington said...

    Pokerstars and Party had plenty of sponsors and ads on TV. Also, many poker players paid taxes. Many DFS players do not pay taxes. DFS is gambling. It would be great if no black Friday came, but I see it as inevitable.

    but all their commercials were technically for the free portion of their site because the gambling portion wasnt really very legal. they even had a disclaimer in tiny writing at the end of their commercials that it was for free contests. DFS sites are required to submit the 1099s for winnings over $600 which means people are either paying taxes on that money or getting audited. meaning the portion of tax evaders (those not reporting winnings

  • slinkymaster

    @ActionJunkie said...

    Well the law would disagree with you. DFS has bills in place to keep it upfloat (at least for now) where online poker did not. There MIGHT be regulation coming but we will see it a mile away where we did not for poker other than the initial 2006 stuff.

    The author of the bill that made the exception for fantasy sports said the concept of DFS didn’t exist and it’s not exactly what they had in mind when they made the exception. I personally don’t believe DFS is at any risk, but associating online poker with it could reignite a conversation amongst our politicians.

  • huitcinq

    You guys just don’t understand. Laws like this are passed by lobbyists, not lawmakers. The casino lobby passed the bill which killed online poker. The pro sports & broadcasting lobby will never let anything happen to DFS.

    I mean the US lets pro sports leagues like the NFL and NBA operate an illegal cartel inside the damn country. Now they own a piece of DFS and somehow you’re still worried something will happen. Everybody just chill and worry about things that matter, like rakes going down.

  • JohnMadden420

    maybe dfs companies can claim non profit status like the nfl. and get hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate welfare to go along with it.

  • huitcinq

    @JohnMadden420 said...

    maybe dfs companies can claim non profit status like the nfl. and get hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate welfare to go along with it.

    Hahaha yeah there you go. The pro sports leagues LOVE DFS, it’s a total next level of engagement with their product. You think any lawmaker is going up against these guys?

    For god’s sake they’re in AMERICA, land of the glorious free market, and they’ve managed to convince lawmakers to allow them to operate as a literal cartel, operating out of stadiums funded by public money (while keeping all the profits), while maintaining a non-profit status for their headquarters! And they have all collectively decided they love DFS.

    I pity the poor sap of a lawmaker who tries to go after daily fantasy.

  • jhfc

    • 2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @huitcinq said...

    You guys just don’t understand. Laws like this are passed by lobbyists, not lawmakers. The casino lobby passed the bill which killed online poker. The pro sports & broadcasting lobby will never let anything happen to DFS.

    I mean the US lets pro sports leagues like the NFL and NBA operate an illegal cartel inside the damn country. Now they own a piece of DFS and somehow you’re still worried something will happen. Everybody just chill and worry about things that matter, like rakes going down.

    This is fairly spot on, although I don’t know what the cartel conspiracy talk is all about.

    Additionally, what DFS players aren’t paying taxes? I have received a 1099 each year that I’ve played DFS. All 1099 forms are sent to the IRS as well. It was significantly easier to evade taxes with online poker. Whether many online poker payers paid taxes on their winnings or not is irrelevant. The fact that it was unregulated is what’s important.

  • mickdawgx81

    Pokerstars will follow every tax rule they have to. That’s not even a question. Pokerstars will be big.

    Imagine a European player being able to withdraw from their Poker account, and request transfer to their DFS account. The possible pool of money available to play DFS is huge. The money in Pokerstars’ pool dwarfs that of FanDuel or Draftkings.

    And for Pokerstar’s sake, yes, they want to be in the U.S. market. DFS is growing and will be bigger here.
    But what if a “Black Friday” occurs for DFS?

    Pokerstars stops operating their DFS in the US and then continues in Europe. The infrastructure will be there.

    There’s a huge pool of worldwide players that will be interested in Soccer, Cricket, Rugby, Golf DFS…not to mention the American sports.

    FD and DK should be concerned. Pokerstars has the most to gain, and the least to lose.

    I would venture to say it’s a no lose situation for them.

  • huitcinq

    @jhfc said...

    This is fairly spot on, although I don’t know what the cartel conspiracy talk is all about.

    It’s not a conspiracy, a pro league in north america is literally a legal cartel between owners.

    Imagine if Apple/Facebook/Google had “drafts” to determine who they hired out of college. Heck there was a huge class action lawsuit against a bunch of tech firms when it was revealed that the companies in silicon valley had collectively agreed to stop poaching employees from one another.

  • huitcinq

    Anyways the point is that pro sports are literally above the law. With them getting more and more involved in dailt fantasy, at this point there is virtually no chance whatsoever that DFS gets outlawed.

  • e4e5nf3nc6

    • 167

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2015 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @huitcinq said...

    It’s not a conspiracy, a pro league in north america is literally a legal cartel between owners.

    Imagine if Apple/Facebook/Google had “drafts” to determine who they hired out of college. Heck there was a huge class action lawsuit against a bunch of tech firms when it was revealed that the companies in silicon valley had collectively agreed to stop poaching employees from one another.

    With the first pick of the draft Apple selects… Gilbert Edwards, PN (programming nerd), JR, Adams College

  • sportsgrinder

    • Blogger of the Month

    What a mistake, I didn’t have him going anywhere before the middle of the second round. I’d gladly take Henry Jacobson at number two for Amazon.

  • PJGuin23

    DFS Tax Guru

    @huitcinq said...

    Hahaha yeah there you go. The pro sports leagues LOVE DFS, it’s a total next level of engagement with their product. You think any lawmaker is going up against these guys?

    For god’s sake they’re in AMERICA, land of the glorious free market, and they’ve managed to convince lawmakers to allow them to operate as a literal cartel, operating out of stadiums funded by public money (while keeping all the profits), while maintaining a non-profit status for their headquarters! And they have all collectively decided they love DFS.

    I pity the poor sap of a lawmaker who tries to go after daily fantasy.

    Saw what happened in WA and now in Iowa. Yeah, there are plenty of “poor saps“who want to take a swipe at DFS. Granted I agree it’s more protected than poker but there is still a chance and there are forces out there who think it’s evil. Why do you think we’re the only Western nation with a 21 drinking age? Cause some angry mom pushed. .. pushed and pushed on a crusade and eventually won. Other factors of adulthood be damned. There are millions of Evangelicals, Mormons and Conservative other religions flush with cash that think Gambling is a sin and will stop at nothing. Adelson and the major sports leagues may not push it but you can bet millions will. Drive through a part of flyover country. You will see what I’m talking about. Most eye opening was driving down I-81 in Virginia and Tennessee with all their megachurches, huge crosses and Obama hatred posters. They don’t like ANY form of gambling either. And people have told me that’s not the worst stretch of ultra conservatism you could drive through.

  • EC4THREE10

    This will be great for the DFS world!

  • jhfc

    • 2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @huitcinq said...

    It’s not a conspiracy, a pro league in north america is literally a legal cartel between owners.

    Imagine if Apple/Facebook/Google had “drafts” to determine who they hired out of college. Heck there was a huge class action lawsuit against a bunch of tech firms when it was revealed that the companies in silicon valley had collectively agreed to stop poaching employees from one another.

    I’m a lawyer, you don’t have to explain the legal meaning of cartel haha.

    There is a big difference (imo) between consumer products such as tech firms and professional sports, but that argument is too long to have here. I guess “conspiracy” was the wrong word to use. I agreed with the major premise of your post.

  • bluesjack

    @CeeGee said...

    Maybe I don’t know enough about the “poker” world or the DFS world for that matter, but, I just can’t understand why people have an issue with online gaming and “gambling” in general?

    Whats wrong with me spending my own money on something I enjoy?

    I pay taxes on my winnings, I don’t really understand what the issue is… Can someone give me the cliff notes version?

    Gambling is the Devil’s gateway drug

  • domination

    I’d bet PS DFS is profitable way before DK and FD ever get in the black.

    Good news though and PS is too big for DK to consume so they won’t be able to kill off competition again.

  • QQSTUKIE

    Did anyone else see this today on egrNA? Amaya Gaming linked with DraftDay acquisition

    http://www.egrnorthamerica.com/amaya-gaming-linked-with-draftday-acquisition/

  • JBigg23

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Did anyone else see this today on egrNA? Amaya Gaming linked with DraftDay acquisition

    http://www.egrnorthamerica.com/amaya-gaming-linked-with-draftday-acquisition/

    You need to be registered (pay for service) to read the article. Do you have the full article?

  • QQSTUKIE

    @JBigg23 said...

    You need to be registered (pay for service) to read the article. Do you have the full article?

    No, interested to see what is said.

  • mchin1027

    Anybody have any updates on this? With about a month to go before NFL season starts, and DK/FD already having released their NFL contests we should be hearing something soon…

    Can’t be worse than Yahoo right?

  • QQSTUKIE

    Word was Victiv was going to sell to them, after they got the 2.5M that can not be the case.

  • leafs93

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Word was Victiv was going to sell to them, after they got the 2.5M that can not be the case.

    Oh Gawd i hope they are not the ones inquiring into fantasy up, Can comeone just by the draftday software already.

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