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  • ehafner

    • 2015 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

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    It’s my view that DFS is NOT gambling, but I know several people feel otherwise, so I figure I’d state my case publicly and see if/where I’m wrong.

    To be considered gambling, DFS would require three elements be present: consideration, chance, and prize.

    The crux of my argument is that there is no “chance” in DFS, only variance. Chance means that luck is factored into your outcome. While luck is absolutely a factor to winning in a small sample size, all of that luck evens out and negates itself in the long run. When you look at DFS in its proper context (play DFS infinity times w/ infinity people) your return = your edge in the game. Therefore, no chance is involved. Therefore, DFS is not gambling.

  • frob2424

    It’s gambling.

  • yeahthisiscuddy

    @slinkymaster said...

    It’s called denial

    Shhhhh, you guys. If you admit it, the NY Times might read it and write an article that gets the greedy liberal politicians to shut the whole thing down. Stop being a bunch of loser cry babies and learn how to build better lineups.

  • dangerb407

    game of skill that, if you have no clue and just randomly pick players because of their name, for example, can become gambling

  • dangerb407

    Industry needs to stop the scoops of the low dollar H2H, however. Stuff like that is likely the source of the venom on the posts made by the players who don’t win

  • dingdangdong

    Why is gambling online illegal?

  • lilprog

    • Blogger of the Month

    This is scary shit:

    Daniel Wallach ‏@WALLACHLEGAL 1m1 minute ago Hallandale Beach, FL
    Nevada AG: “UIGEA Did Not Legalize Fantasy Sports.” Attorneys who issued opinions stating otherwise please contact your insurance carriers

  • frob2424

    I say it’s gambling.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @ehafner said...

    It’s my view that DFS is NOT gambling, but I know several people feel otherwise, so I figure I’d state my case publicly and see if/where I’m wrong.

    To be considered gambling, DFS would require three elements be present: consideration, chance, and prize.

    The crux of my argument is that there is no “chance” in DFS, only variance. Chance means that luck is factored into your outcome. While luck is absolutely a factor to winning in a small sample size, all of that luck evens out and negates itself in the long run. When you look at DFS in its proper context (play DFS infinity times w/ infinity people) your return = your edge in the game. Therefore, no chance is involved. Therefore, DFS is not gambling.

    If I walk into a casino every day and play slots for an hour, where I have no mental control at all over how much I lose or win, I am gambling. When I follow MLB and have a great feel for players, trends, streaks, and I put money on these players, I am INVESTING my money in SMART DECISIONS in order to MAKE MONEY. That is more like the stock market than it is gambling, because at least I have creative control over what I am doing with my money. A scratch ticket, you have no control at all for example. Let me make this very clear – putting money into players from different teams under a salary cap format is “investing into a portfolio of stocks for that one day” that if you are smart enough, will earn you some money. You cannot have a strategy in actual gambling – you just blindly throw your money into it, and hope for the best. How most others can’t see this logic is beyond me.

  • dingdangdong

    @Ryazan said...

    If I walk into a casino every day and play slots for an hour, where I have no mental control at all over how much I lose or win, I am gambling. When I follow MLB and have a great feel for players, trends, streaks, and I put money on these players, I am INVESTING my money in SMART DECISIONS in order to MAKE MONEY. That is more like the stock market than it is gambling, because at least I have creative control over what I am doing with my money. A scratch ticket, you have no control at all for example. Let me make this very clear – putting money into players from different teams under a salary cap format is “investing into a portfolio of stocks for that one day” that if you are smart enough, will earn you some money. You cannot have a strategy in actual gambling – you just blindly throw your money into it, and hope for the best. How most others can’t see this logic is beyond me.

    I agree 100%. A person can go into a casino, completely impair their judgment with alcohol, blast through their whole life savings, then drive home drunk with potential suicidal tendencies.

  • Avgplayer

    I’ll bite……………………

    I am going all in on certain players hoping the game flow and action of my players is how I predict it to be.

    How do I decide what players to target and not target, from watching games and checking injury reports each week.

    I have a pad and notebook, I grade each player from position 1 to 5 or sometimes 8 depending on how many lineups I choose that week.

    So yeah I am gambling on what I learn each week will pay off on Sunday.

  • katho54

    Yeah…Not Gambling…..I agree Horseracing and DFS are pretty close and if you know what your doing,you can make aliving off of either…..Slot machine and such,not so much

  • soonerdawg

    I love DFS, but the arguments saying that playing DFS is not gambling reminds me of the old saying “you can’t bullshit a bullshitter”…..which is going to make it impossible to convince the people in government that it’s not gambling

  • bobbyrogers46

    Why can’t a 16 year old play on Fanduel?

  • dingdangdong

    @soonerdawg said...

    I love DFS, but the arguments saying that playing DFS is not gambling reminds me of the old saying “you can’t bullshit a bullshitter”…..which is going to make it impossible to convince the people in government that it’s not gambling

    I’m amazed how the government ever thought it wasn’t gambling. How could the potential to lose money wagering on an individuals performance not obviously be gambling? So according to the government, everyone that plays DFS pays 10% of every dollar they deposit, without ever losing or winning, so they can pick players.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @dingdangdong said...

    I’m amazed how the government ever thought it wasn’t gambling. How could the potential to lose money wagering on an individuals performance not obviously be gambling? So according to the government, everyone that plays DFS pays 10% of every dollar they deposit, without ever losing or winning, so they can pick players.

    its not gambling because you have to use your brain to skillfully pick the combination of players to use under a salary cap (so you can’t just use all superstars), as opposed to blindly putting money on something and hoping for simple luck

  • dingdangdong

    @Ryazan said...

    its not gambling because you have to use your brain to skillfully pick the combination of players to use under a salary cap (so you can’t just use all superstars), as opposed to blindly putting money on something and hoping for simple luck

    It’s gambling. Outside of playing the lottery, every decision ever made while wagering money has a thought process. It only has to be rational to the person making the wager, not the people watching the process.

  • BobGrinder

    @ehafner said...

    This is why gambling and game of skill are mutually exclusive imo. In games of skill, your bets are certain in the long run. You wager your money, and your return = your edge in the game.

    The wager is what makes it gambling. Not skill nor chance, the wager.

    The house can’t lose on roulette in the long run right? It’s still called gambling right?

    It IS a pointless argument over semantics. it is gambling, period, end of story.

    The issue should be focused on not being able to pick and choose which forms of gambling are kosher and which are not. If any forms of gambling are allowed then ALL forms of gambling should be allowed.

  • dingdangdong

    @BobGrinder said...

    The wager is what makes it gambling. Not skill nor chance, the wager.

    The house can’t lose on roulette in the long run right? It’s still called gambling right?

    It IS a pointless argument over semantics. it is gambling, period, end of story.

    The issue should be focused on not being able to pick and choose which forms of gambling are kosher and which are not. If any forms of gambling are allowed then ALL forms of gambling should be allowed.

    Exactly.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @BobGrinder said...

    The wager is what makes it gambling. Not skill nor chance, the wager.

    The house can’t lose on roulette in the long run right? It’s still called gambling right?

    It IS a pointless argument over semantics. it is gambling, period, end of story.

    The issue should be focused on not being able to pick and choose which forms of gambling are kosher and which are not. If any forms of gambling are allowed then ALL forms of gambling should be allowed.

    is the stock market gambling?

    Because when I pick my players for the day, I am investing my money into their performances that night based on my analysis of those players.

    it’s not gambling, it’s investing

  • BobGrinder

    @Ryazan said...

    is the stock market gambling?

    Because when I pick my players for the day, I am investing my money into their performances that night based on my analysis of those players.

    it’s not gambling, it’s investing

    The stock market is absolutely gambling.

  • dingdangdong

    It’s such a mindfuck to think a person can legally play roulette at an online casino but restrictions are placed on this and poker because it’s gambling. WTF is roulette considered then??

  • dingdangdong

    @Ryazan said...

    is the stock market gambling?

    Because when I pick my players for the day, I am investing my money into their performances that night based on my analysis of those players.

    it’s not gambling, it’s investing

    It’s gambling because you don’t have a guaranteed outcome. How is this such a difficult concept? Regardless of how large your edge is, unless it’s absolute, it’s a gamble. If an outcome is 99.9999…likely to happen, it’s still a gamble.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    ok so why is stock market not banned anywhere?

    I know its regulated by the government. But all I am seeing the last few days is states flat out BANNING dfs and not even bothering to try to regulate it.

  • Unico10

    • 711

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Ryazan said...

    is the stock market gambling?

    Because when I pick my players for the day, I am investing my money into their performances that night based on my analysis of those players.

    it’s not gambling, it’s investing

    The stock market is gambling when you day trade or trade short term expiring options

    It is not (or is less) gambling when you invest long term.

    Obviously long term is not an option in DFS

  • yeahthisiscuddy

    @Ryazan said...

    is the stock market gambling?

    Because when I pick my players for the day, I am investing my money into their performances that night based on my analysis of those players.

    it’s not gambling, it’s investing

    Guys, stop equating DFS with the stock market. Stocks are ownership claims on productive assets. They generate profits that are reinvested back in to the business to generate even more profits. Betting each slate that you can “build a better lineup” isn’t a productive asset. It’s speculating on the outcome of a contest, which is gambling.

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