INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • tooltime

    First off, I only play dfs for fun and like playing on FD due to the roster construction and they have the best app. I have become worried that I am not playing in a fair environment. I have seen many posts about 2 or 3 people playing the same lineup. on FD I seen the same15 people play the same lineup in every 50/50 and double up everyday. Why would this be allowed? I asked FD if it was one person with 15 accounts or 15 people who buy the same line up. They said “ If a user would like to buy another users lineup on their own platform than would be their decision to make.” My problem here is 15 out of 57 lineups are the same in a double up that pays 25 spots. when they cash 14 people get robbed. The scores that pay out go from 25 to 10. I know they do not always cash and people say that you only have to beat 42 scores but they are only playing against 42 lineups, not 56 also. Its like playing a h2h. To me it is not a fair environment to put my money in to play a game that pays only 10 places out of the 25 its supposed to against 1 lineup. I’m sure FD could limit the amount of similar lineups in 1 game. The big question is why they allow it and do not see it as a problem.

  • neogamer

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    50/50s are becoming very difficult to profit at these days. Information sources are plentiful and of course optional lineup sites are very much out there. Cut down your exposure in double ups and play smaller gpps . The cut lines in low level gpps is very close to that in cash games .

  • tvsfrink

    @neogamer said...

    The cut lines in low level gpps is very close to that in cash games .

    I keep seeing this repeated and I’ve seen little evidence in my own playing to back it up. Once in a while, sure, but most often the cash lines are higher in the low level ($1-$3) gpp’s I frequent. There have been plenty of times I cash in the double up or 50/50 and not in the gpp.

  • KillaChap

    I win more double-ups and H2H’s than I ever win in GPP’s and I enter the same line-ups. You need a far higher scoring team to cash in GPP’s, at least in my experience. I too can’t stand it when someone enters 10 of the same line-ups but that’s their prerogative just as it’s mine to try to beat them.

  • neogamer

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I guess everyone’s experience could be different depending on the site and the buy in level they are playing. The point is that the edge in 50/50 contests is becoming lower due to optimal lineups and improved informational sources. You are better off throwing one or many lineups into a low buy in GPP where the upside is tremendous, and the opponents are typically far worse then those in 50/50s of larger amounts.

  • BennyRamirez

    If you cash at a rate of 65% in 50/50s, as does the multiaccounter, 35% of the time, you only have to beat 24 of 43 lineups, but 65% of 65% of the time, your good lineup still has to beat 11 of 43. I can see how this increases the difficulty of beating the rake. A 60% winner can easily slip to 55 or under. Either way, “play better” is an inappropriate response to OP; it misses OP’s concern and that mentality is a bad look.

  • Jcb890

    I reached out to FanDuel about this a few weeks back.

    Their only response was that these were individual accounts since each account must have its own Social Security # attached to it in order to be deemed a separate account. I get that on smaller slates, there are going to be a lot of similar rosters. But, when you have a night of full MLB action and 10+ games, it is insane to think that there are actually 10, 20 or 30+ people all creating the same exact lineup using their own information. Statistically, that is not likely to happen, yet happens constantly. So, what gives?

  • BennyRamirez

    @Jcb890 said...

    I reached out to FanDuel about this a few weeks back.

    Their only response was that these were individual accounts since each account must have its own Social Security # attached to it in order to be deemed a separate account. I get that on smaller slates, there are going to be a lot of similar rosters. But, when you have a night of full MLB action and 10+ games, it is insane to think that there are actually 10, 20 or 30+ people all creating the same exact lineup using their own information. Statistically, that is not likely to happen, yet happens constantly. So, what gives?

    Giving the sites the benefit of the doubt, that they will respond to complaints with people using the same optimizers, so I wonder if they utilize optimizers themselves to police this. I would think the base RG, rotoQL, etc optimized lineup does get used a lot. The odds of people checking the same boxes or isolating the same games from which to optimize aren’t too crazy. Or just multiply the same simple percentages to project points.

    For instance, in NBA, it’s pretty easy to predict chalk by finding a simple matchup factor of fpts allowed divided by league average at said position, multiplying that by the player’s fpts per minute times 34 for everyone in starting lineups. Or doing the same for the last 10 games.

    It is when the same lineup is played by 15 people in a small 57-person contest, including a player or two who are under 5% owned in the Big Double Up, where a red flag is easier to raise.

    Not sure if Chris Gimino uses optimizers to predict ownership, but he would know more about how they influence ownership on the wider scale.

  • tooltime

    Yes the 50/50 are hard enough to profit from do to the rake, but the bought lineup train makes 50/50s completely unbeatable.
    100 person 50/50 with 100 random lineups & 50 spots paid= 50% to cash. with rake you need to cash 63% to brake even.
    25 same lineups that cash 65% of the time leaves you with a 33% chance to cash in 1 of the 25 remaining spots.
    So -EV

    This is not accounting for the 2-3 other 2-3 man teams of big players sharing lineups as well. I wish I was better at math.

    disclaimer I do not have a problem with the teams of 2 that work together to build better lineups. When 1/4 of the field uses 1 bought lineup in a single entry game there is a problem with site policies.

  • jriprap24

    DFS is as much about playing the right contests as it is making the right lineups. Every contest pays out differently and you have to realize that entering a small-pool double-up is going to lead to this problem. The small sample size means you can have a very high or very low cash line on any given night. If your objective is simply doubling your money, I would just play big double ups with thousands of entries. The cash line will be much closer to the mean for the night’s lineups.

    Second thought, if you are only playing for fun and want to bet $1-2, why not just enter a huge tourney? You never know what could happen, and having a shot at a few thousand bucks is certainly more fun (in my opinion) than turning $1 into $2.

  • redeyegrind

    I have bigger concerns. Working for a software company I often times wonder is the games are truly locked and there aren’t any play play going on up under the hood. I’ve seen some things before that made me go hmmmmmmm!! I love playing and don’t spend tons of money doing it and someone has actually let me win from time to time so I say “all’s fair in love and war”

  • Prisoncoptodd

    You guys are hilarious if I told you how much I’ve won on 50/50 you guys would stop commenting on this matter keep on posting bad information about all of this impossible to win in 50/50 contests people buying lineups its all dumb make a solid lineup and you could beat anyone matter of fact if 15 got same lineup its even easier to beat them think about it you pass of 15 spots for there 1 lineup

  • jr1886

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @Prisoncoptodd said...

    You guys are hilarious if I told you how much I’ve won on 50/50 you guys would stop commenting on this matter keep on posting bad information about all of this impossible to win in 50/50 contests people buying lineups its all dumb make a solid lineup and you could beat anyone matter of fact if 15 got same lineup its even easier to beat them think about it you pass of 15 spots for there 1 lineup

    As you alluded to it, how much you make in cash game? Give me a range if you are not entirely comfortable. I’ll be looking to ramp up my volume in cash game this year, and I’m curious how profitable it is. Thanks

  • Prisoncoptodd

    @jr1886 said…..

    As you alluded to it, how much you make in cash game? Give me a range if you are not entirely comfortable. I’ll be looking to ramp up my volume in cash game this year, and I’m curious how profitable it is. Thanks

    Always willing to help I would start with lowest level buy in that would be $1.00 .But I would go 100 man that’s the key if you were in a room of 100 people do you think your top 50 out of that room . On Fanduel they got up to $25.00 100 man .Dollar amount is up to you but like I said single entry 100 man is a nice way to break in and feel comfortable.The large double ups are less then half and lots of the pros or studs use 1 line up maybe 50-100 times .Any other questions hit me here or private always willing to give back or try to share my experience .Good Luck.

  • jr1886

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @Prisoncoptodd said...

    @jr1886 said…..

    As you alluded to it, how much you make in cash game? Give me a range if you are not entirely comfortable. I’ll be looking to ramp up my volume in cash game this year, and I’m curious how profitable it is. Thanks

    Always willing to help I would start with lowest level buy in that would be $1.00 .But I would go 100 man that’s the key if you were in a room of 100 people do you think your top 50 out of that room . On Fanduel they got up to $25.00 100 man .Dollar amount is up to you but like I said single entry 100 man is a nice way to break in and feel comfortable.The large double ups are less then half and lots of the pros or studs use 1 line up maybe 50-100 times .Any other questions hit me here or private always willing to give back or try to share my experience .Good Luck.

    Thank you. Very helpful. I’m a GPP guy, but because I will be staking a lot more money this year, I want to play some cash game to have a potentially less variable return.

  • Prisoncoptodd

    Stay Patient and Grind through the whole Nfl season you will be profitable trust me on that

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    I just got done asking DK about 10 separate identical lineups in a 114 man league (basically 1/3 of the field), and the response I got was:

    “Sometimes people enter different leagues with the same lineup. I apologize for the confusion.”

    So there you go. Problem solved…I guess.

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