NBA FORUM

Comments

  • outtayourleague

    What everybody’s missing in the “excitement” of a new FanDuel live final announcement is how the Qs are getting raked. Tonight’s Q is paying out $24,000 in prizes on $29,750 in entries. If you’re playing tonight, $20.17 of your entry is going to the prize pool, and $4.83 is going to the house, for 19.3% rake on your entry. It’s obviously fun and exciting to try to qualify, but you should be disgusted at what is an absolutely ridiculous rake structure that people really should be taking note of.

  • duder500

    RG Mod

    Or, you could just not play it if you don’t agree with it.

  • DermDerm

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I want to be given the option of giving you more than one thumbs up duder.

  • hambazaza

    RG Blog Program Manager, 2014 RG Party Beer Pong Champion

    • Blogger of the Month

    • Beer Pong Champion

    lost in all this is the hosting of a live final probably isn’t free… but what do i know. im just a guy on a forum.

  • Falim

    Of course you could simply not play. I’m going to guess that the op isn’t. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t point it out either. Sorry, this level of rake is nearly impossible to overcome and make a profit long term.

  • outtayourleague

    $4,000 in the winner’s package is allocated to those expenses.

  • outtayourleague

    That’s my only point, Falim. I understand it’s an economy and they’re going to go as high as they can as long as they keep filling contests. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying it for what it is, but also nothing wrong with pointing out how bad this is for the long-term health of the industry.

  • duder500

    RG Mod

    I think what is lost on a lot of DFS’ers is that this isn’t a platform to make a living. Some really good, really fortunate, players do. But for most it is for fun, entertainment, a way to sweat some games.

    It isn’t about overcoming the rake long term and telling your boss he can kiss your ass. But it is about taking a chance at a million freaking dollars, a trip to the mansion, a blow out weekend in Vegas.

    If you are a guy that is bright enough to where rake levels bother you than avoid the high rake situations.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the long term health of the industry.

  • Falim

    Yes, some really good and fortunate players make a living. Many others, especially on these boards, simply look to grow a bankroll and maybe pull some extra cash out now and then. This affects them.

    And yes, 20% rake is bad for the industry.

  • kalcashmoney

    19.8% is a bit much because they will more than likely fill.

    10-12% is a good range…especially if the travel expenses are included in the prize amount..

    But what choice do we have? Perhaps ESPN and Yahoo will enter the space which will be a game-changer for rake.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Fanduel does put on “events” while you are there though and I’m sure they are very costly and not included in the winner’s package. They roll that into the rake on these qualifiers I believe. In the past I know they have said they hope to come close to breakeven on these live events. I’m not sure if that is still the case or not.

  • spartans22

    @duder500 said...

    I think what is lost on a lot of DFS’ers is that this isn’t a platform to make a living. Some really good, really fortunate, players do. But for most it is for fun, entertainment, a way to sweat some games.

    It isn’t about overcoming the rake long term and telling your boss he can kiss your ass. But it is about taking a chance at a million freaking dollars, a trip to the mansion, a blow out weekend in Vegas.

    If you are a guy that is bright enough to where rake levels bother you than avoid the high rake situations.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the long term health of the industry.

    That has absolutely nothing to do with how high the rake is on a contest. Money is money whether you use it to support yourself or not. Yes that is a pretty ridiculous rake

  • QQSTUKIE

    Question to the lucky Grinders who have made a live final, once at the event do you have to pay for anything? Or is the whole weekend “free”?

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Question to the lucky Grinders who have made a live final, once at the event do you have to pay for anything? Or is the whole weekend “free”?

    I haven’t been to one since 2012, so they’ve changed a lot since then I’m sure. But everything is free in terms of food/alcohol during the viewing parties, mixers, and they took us all out to dinner at a steakhouse back then. Obviously when in Vegas you are on your own for gambling or other meals throughout the day…..or other drinks you choose to purchase during your “free” time outside of the FD hosted events. Flights/hotels/transportation to hotel from airport was all paid for.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @Falim said...

    Of course you could simply not play. I’m going to guess that the op isn’t. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t point it out either. Sorry, this level of rake is nearly impossible to overcome and make a profit long term.

    Talking about overcoming rake long term has no meaning in this context. No one will ever reach the long term on these contests.

    The contests are about having fun and taking a shot. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @duder500 said...

    I think what is lost on a lot of DFS’ers is that this isn’t a platform to make a living. Some really good, really fortunate, players do. But for most it is for fun, entertainment, a way to sweat some games.

    It isn’t about overcoming the rake long term and telling your boss he can kiss your ass. But it is about taking a chance at a million freaking dollars, a trip to the mansion, a blow out weekend in Vegas.

    If you are a guy that is bright enough to where rake levels bother you than avoid the high rake situations.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the long term health of the industry.

    Avoid high rake????? Lets see that leaves us with about 2 sites, both of which have virtually no traffic. I guess that just means I shouldnt play DFS because i’m such a whiner about high rake. Hey maybe next time around they’ll raise the rake over 25% but who cares right? Maybe we’ll get to stay at $1,000 a night hotel rooms instead of these $400 a night rooms. Personally I would forego the live finals and have bigger prizepools so i can decide how i want to spend my money. But I realize I’m like in the 1% minority on this and live finals are here to stay.

    At least Fanduel got the payout structure right.

  • jlowery73

    2012 DDC Main Event Champion

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • x3

      2015 FACFC Finalist

    @duder500 said...

    I think what is lost on a lot of DFS’ers is that this isn’t a platform to make a living. Some really good, really fortunate, players do. But for most it is for fun, entertainment, a way to sweat some games.

    It isn’t about overcoming the rake long term and telling your boss he can kiss your ass. But it is about taking a chance at a million freaking dollars, a trip to the mansion, a blow out weekend in Vegas.

    If you are a guy that is bright enough to where rake levels bother you than avoid the high rake situations.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the long term health of the industry.

    I noticed you have chimed in on multiple occasions to try and defend the rake….to this I am bit puzzled but to each his own.

    I think even those trying to make a living off this would agree that there needs to be some rake to keep the sites going…what is frustrating is when it seems to continually increase and yet the tournies swell larger and larger.

    For myself I wouldn’t have too much issue at all with paying 5-8% rake on games. 10 is probably even acceptable in some manners, but when you get to 12+ you have to make a decision on whether or not it is worth attempting to grind in those types of games.

    For this you can be sure….if the high rake tournies continually fill then the rake (without regulations) will continue to be an issue for those attempting to make consistent money in them. Also, if some choose to defend the rake then sites can always point out that not everyone has a problem with it….

  • DermDerm

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @QQSTUKIE said...

    Question to the lucky Grinders who have made a live final, once at the event do you have to pay for anything? Or is the whole weekend “free”?

    The whole weekend was free for me this year at the playboy mansion. The one thing that I ended up paying out of pocket for was airfare. The qualifier got you a +1 and they credited you with $700 for airfare, but for me flying from Philly to LA for two people round trip costs more than $700. Besides that the party the night before the tournament and all the booze and food included at those events was free.

  • 00oreo00

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Just a different perspective….. it’s okay to get raked twice in the Q’s since they are two separate competitions. Yes the trip is worth $18k, but the value is $20k since that is what they should charge (and what I would pay) for direct buy in.

    Same thing goes for satty’s into bigger tournaments. Yes they are raked twice, but it’s ok since winning a $1k ticket is the equivalent of winning $1000 for someone who was going to buy in any way.

  • whits23

    2010 FFFC Finalist, 2010 DFBC Finalist, 2011 FFFC Finalist, 2014 DSBC Finalist

    • x2

      2010 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    amazing how i got bashed over the years for saying the same things guys get applauded for now

    But big money is paying the big rake..you have guys who will put 5k in entries in each..unlike some sites where they hand out free entries

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @thedude404 said...

    Personally I would forego the live finals and have bigger prizepools so i can decide how i want to spend my money.

    You effectively have this option on a weekly basis. Play quals to super ballers.

    I’m not defending or justifying the rake. The reality is though that there is limited supply and high demand in these tournys. That being the case the sites are going to charge a premium. It is what it is. Complaining about this is like complaining that slot machines or the lottery are unbeatable. Everyone with even a high double digit IQ knows this. You either choose to play or you don’t.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @pmsimkins said...

    You effectively have this option on a weekly basis. Play quals to super ballers.

    I’m not defending or justifying the rake. The reality is though that there is limited supply and high demand in these tournys. That being the case the sites are going to charge a premium. It is what it is. Complaining about this is like complaining that slot machines or the lottery are unbeatable. Everyone with even a high double digit IQ knows this. You either choose to play or you don’t.

    so you’d be ok if they charged 50% rake then? I mean as long as the contests fill they can charge whatever rake they want right?. Only sub 100 iq people like me would be stupid enough to complain about it.

  • ddmcd1974

    @duder500 said...

    I think what is lost on a lot of DFS’ers is that this isn’t a platform to make a living. Some really good, really fortunate, players do. But for most it is for fun, entertainment, a way to sweat some games.

    It isn’t about overcoming the rake long term and telling your boss he can kiss your ass. But it is about taking a chance at a million freaking dollars, a trip to the mansion, a blow out weekend in Vegas.

    If you are a guy that is bright enough to where rake levels bother you than avoid the high rake situations.

    Also, this has nothing to do with the long term health of the industry.

    You seem to be generalizing quite a bit in that post. Tell us then how high can they go on rake before you change you mind. Is it 30% 40% 50%? There is nothing wrong with have a conversation about rake structure. There is nothing wrong with questioning it, especially when data isnt provided . To dismiss the OP as you guys have with a simple do not play is weak, considering the responses came from two accomplished moderators/editors.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @thedude404 said...

    so you’d be ok if they charged 50% rake then? I mean as long as the contests fill they can charge whatever rake they want right?. Only sub 100 iq people like me would be stupid enough to complain about it.

    Well, I actually said only dumb people don’t know slot machines and lotteries are unwinnable. Your complaining is a different matter.

    Where exactly should the rake be set to have everyone “ok” with it? I can easily see a 0% business model, so maybe I shouldn’t be ok with even 1%? Personally, I’m ok with it as long as I get more out of it (winnings+enjoyment) then I put into (fees+time+stress). When that equation goes negative I quit, which could be due to rake or any number of other factors.

    People need to get some perspective and a reality check. You’re gambling! This is easily the least necessary expense in your budget. There is 0 material value in this activity. The idea that your gambling provider owes you something is laughable.

  • kinggeorge

    @thedude404 said...

    so you’d be ok if they charged 50% rake then? I mean as long as the contests fill they can charge whatever rake they want right?. Only sub 100 iq people like me would be stupid enough to complain about it.

    I actually agree with this, why can’t people complain about the rake? I thought this was America.

    Especially on non million dollar games or trip packages, but on real games, if the rake reaches a certain tipping point what’s the difference between DFS and gambling/sports betting?

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    GET THE GOVERNMENT INVOLVED!!! THAT WILL FIX IT!!!

    Right now, DFS is all about supply, demand, and the freedom of choice. I disagree with Duder on some stuff, but he’s right on here. Don’t like it? Don’t play. If enough feel like you do, then the rake will be lowered. They don’t, so it won’t be.

    Saying it is killing the industry is a far fetched “don’t take my money please” lie from hell. It is not killing the industry. It is only preventing faster growth.

    Proof? Lottery Tickets are a billion dollar industry.

  • X Unread Thread
  • X Thread with New Replies*
  • *Jumps to your first unread reply

Subforum Index

RotoGrinders.com is the home of the daily fantasy sports community. Our content, rankings, member blogs, promotions and forum discussion all cater to the players that like to create a new fantasy team every day of the week.

If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL). Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler (NJ/WV/PA), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (CO) or 1-800-BETS OFF (IA). 21+. NJ/PA/WV/IN/IA/CO/IL only.