• Varncass

    CBB/CFB Contributor

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    With all of the issues currently facing the industry regarding the NYT article and the general truth that the sharks prey on the fish I wanted to bump this idea that I posted over a year ago in the forums. I thought this was a decent idea that was fairly well received by the community, but we never had any response from any site on the idea. Now that there are major concerns with this issue in the major media, perhaps this could be used as a solution.

    From over a year ago …

    I have been brainstorming ideas on how to effectively keep the massive BR guys out of low stakes games for a while and couldn’t come up with a solid idea, but this morning I stumbled across something that I think might work, however I am not sure how feasible it is for the sites and their profit margins.

    First, every game gets raked at 10%, no matter what it is, including the high stakes games.

    Second, the site would introduce a rakeback program which would incentivize higher stakes gameplay.

    For example, there are 5 tiers of rakeback (obviously these can be changed, just for explanation purposes), at 1%, 4%, 8%, 13%, 20%. To achieve 1% rakeback, you just have to opt into the program and play 1 game, no matter what is played. Now to achieve higher levels of rakeback, it would require an average buy in floor and a total $ played. There would be a chart indicating the 2 requirements a player would need to make the higher bracket. For example, to reach 20% rakeback, a player would need to play $20,000 worth of games for the month with an average buy-in of $75 dollars. To achieve 13% rakeback, $13,500 worth of games with an average buy in of $45 dollars. I did not spend too much time trying to figure out the numbers of how much in entries the top players clear in a month of what is feasible for the average buy-in limit, these numbers would obviously be edited by the site based on their player base and the numbers their player base are putting up in a month.

    Granted, this will be beneficial to the sharks but it would definitely help the newer players trying to build a bankroll. I think this would make high-stakes players very anti low stakes games as playing in a few 1, 2, and 5 dollar games are going to drag their ABI down and risk them dropping into a lower rakeback level.”

    …onto today.

    Basically I think I undestimated the industry’s growth and with the 10k games and such, that would obviously skew the ABI amount for the rakeback program. The top tier would obviously have to be something much higher, like an ABI of 200, and on down, but this idea would keep the highest stakes players out of the lower buy-ins as they would no doubt be making more in rakeback than they could get at playing the 1-20 dollar games. Obviously someone with more data on the situation (ie, DraftKings/FanDuel) could run some numbers and find out if this actually is a feasible solution for their profit margins. This could be done in cash games only, or cash games and tournaments or hybrids of both.

  • Brodero

    Interesting idea but if i’m understanding this right, sharks are already playing $20K or upwards a month and would achieve the 20% rake back no problem, and then they would still be able to play in the low stakes games since they’re already going to reach the maximum rake back.

    This seems like it would hurt the lower level players more as they wouldn’t be able to play enough to reach the higher rake back incentives, and would only benefit the sharks who can afford a big BR while enjoying the higher rake back.

  • Varncass

    CBB/CFB Contributor

    • 379

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    • 2014 RG Season Champion: CBB

    The reason I think this works is because the rakeback (FPPs) right now are pretty pathetic so lower level players really aren’t getting anything in rakeback at all for what they are playing so this doesn’t effect them at all except to keep the sharks out of the games.

    The idea is that the sharks would get the rakeback no problem, but if they are playing lower stakes games, their ABI would drop quickly to drop their rakeback rate. It isn’t like what PokerStars used to be and once you reached a level you were there for the whole month – you have to keep the requirements to keep that rakeback amount.

    And because the higher buy-ins are exponentially greater than the lower buy-ins, the easy solution to that is just to weight each buy-in. $1 = 1 point, $2 = 2 points, $5 = 3 points etc, and then base the ABI off the point system.

  • MrFantasy

    First of all the big sites like DK and FD aren’t going to implement any form of rakeback regardless of if it helps the new guys or not. DFS is still growing unlike poker so until these sites have their bottom lines hurting nothing will be done to protect new players.

    While poker is an excellent comparison regarding the skills necessary to be a winner and many of the concepts it’s not a good comparison when it comes to sharks in the small stake games. I played in many of the mid-high stakes games online for years and you’d never find me in a 100NL game and a 2000NL game at the same time. Even with rakeback like you’ve mentioned it’s still more profitable for players to be in the $1-$50 games then it is to play the $100+ games even with the added incentive.

  • jimmyrad

    @MrFantasy said...

    DFS is still growing


  • TwoGun

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    New players get rakeback in the form of deposit bonuses. They also have the easier beginner games to play at DK at least.

    If anything, the sites need to step up the rewards system (or just lower the rake ) for existing players.

    I expect you’ll see a significant attrition from existing players this year otherwise (of all forms, both high and low volume) as a lot of people get sick of losing money and previously winning players suddenly realize they aren’t winning or even breaking even anymore.

  • gofast36

    Vancass, it’s not that important to keep good players out of the $1 games. DK has beginner games and deposit bonuses to give new players every chance to learn the games and succeed.

    Also, even with the good players playing the $1 games, there’s still an enormous amount of dead money in those games. Tonight on DK they have a $1 NBA Double Up game with over 27000 entries!!

    Even with good players included in that, there’s still a ton of dead money there, and if players can’t cash in those games often enough to beat the rake even after gaining experience by playing the beginner games, then they’re are just not good enough to win at fantasy. It’s not a DK issue, it’s up to the players to develop their skills, and become good enough to win. If they don’t it’s on them, the sites can only do so much.

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