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  • ihave6rolls

    Hey Grinders!

    Before reading my little blurb on responsible gaming, I just want to preface this by saying that we all love reading the stories of STL Cards or Noto hitting that six-figure payday. In reality, very few of us will probably ever hit that. Instead people can be like me (as you will read below) and screw some things up. I hope this article reaches some people and helps them put some perspective in their DFS life and be smart about gaming.

    I have been an RG member and DFS player since I was a sophomore in college (about 3-4 years ago). I loved the thrill of playing and as a guy who followed every sport religiously, except hockey, I was hooked. I would play anywhere from $5-10 a day and just have fun with it. I did this for a couple years and loved it all.

    However, last Spring was the downfall of my DFS career. If I could take a time machine and do some things over in my life, this would be my first stop. In Spring I got my first credit card and it had a $16,000 limit. As a college student who was 21 and wanted to go to the bars all the time, this was dangerous. One thing that I learned rather quickly was that I could link my credit card to my Paypal account and deposit even MORE MONEY. I was so excited. I told myself that I am going to hit it big and just live the life of luxury.

    For the next six months, I would constantly deposit money in. Sometimes $100, sometimes $500, sometimes over $1000. I was having a blast doing it. I would win some and lose some…but overall for the next 6 months, I had only won about $100. Not a lot or anything but as a college kid, I was quite stoked.

    In January 2018, my bad luck came. As DFS players, we all have highs and lows. Well, I think it is safe to say that I hit a HUGE low. By the end of February, my $16,000 credit card was almost maxed out. I would just lose and lose and lose. I would bet to try and win back everything I had loss the previous night. I was chasing my loss, which is the worst thing any gambler/DFS player could do. I ended up applying for another credit card, and sadly, the credit card company accepted me. They gave me a new credit card that had a $10,000 limit….

    I was excited. In my mind, I told myself that I had an extra $10,000 to win all my losses back. Well, shockingly (Dave Potss sarcasm here) I lost it all over the next couple months (May 2018). So as a 23 year old, I was stuck looking at about $25,000 in credit card debt, feeling hopeless, feeling scared, and not sure of what would happen.

    Currently, I still have this huge debt hanging over my head on my credit cards. It is the worst feeling in the world. I have cried multiple times at night just feeling so beaten, so scared, and feeling like I have let so many people down. I would try to hide from it myself by paying the minimum on the credit card and just figure that it would go away. I haven’t told anyone in my family, not my girlfriend, just all of you RG members now.

    Over these past couple weeks, I have gained some confidence and strength. I do not know where this has come from, but I am glad I have gotten it. I am ready to face this debt that is in front of me, not through DFS haha…but from hard work and slowly paying if off. As a fresh college graduate, I have a nice job that I will be starting in a couple weeks, and my goal is to try as hard as I can to pay off all of this debt in the next 2 years. I know, all of you are thinking 2 years is a long ass time, but when you are as stupid as me, that is what it will take. 2 years with payments of about $1200 a month….that is what is placed in front of me. It is not pretty, but it is the situation I am currently in.

    I do not want this story to a pity story for me. People should not look at me and feel sorry for me. I want to be an example in the DFS world, especially relatively young people like me, to pause and think about bankroll management. Winning money in DFS is fun, but losing is such a stronger and deeper feeling. It eats away in your stomach. No one wants this feeling, so be smart with your money. The money you make from your job is precious and you should take care of it. I am the face of terrible bankroll management. I am the poster child of what you should not become.

    If anyone has any questions, please feel free to comment below.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 434

      RG Overall Ranking

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    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Thanks for sharing with us and happy to see you recognized you have a problem. Please make sure you Self Exclude from being able to play on any DFS site so you don’t have any temptation to continue to play. Good luck overcoming this and hopefully you can find greater peace with DFS in your rearview.

  • bigez952

    Thanks for sharing your story. What is crazy is that there is credit card companies willing to hand out $25,000 worth of credit to college students with no income or a job. I have been working for years with a decent income and was only approved for a fraction of that with the credit card I currently have.

    I hope you can learn your lesson from all of this and come out better in the long run. As I am sure you know credit card interest is a killer so do whatever you get to get that debt paid off as fast as possible. Or if you have support of friends or family maybe someone can bail you out with a much lower interest loan than the insane amount your paying to the credit card companies.

  • XxHeisenbergxX

    I applaud you for having the courage to tell your story. Sometimes it helps to get it off your chest especially in a forum you can remain anonymous. Its very hard to explain to friends and family the troubles your having especially if they do not understand what having the gambling bug is all about.

    I had a similar period in my life about 12-15 years ago when I was in my mid thirties. I got married very young (no kids thank christ!) I got a divorce and I had a run with extremely reckless behavior. I dont think anyone could have partied as much as I did for a two year span. Gambling, drugs you name it I did it and trust me I am very lucky to be alive. I was self employed, tons of cash and all the time in the world on my hands. The money went quick. I was a full blown degenerate.

    Luckily for me after a two year span I met someone that to this day is my very best friend on the planet, for whatever reason this woman was my guardian angel and she got me straight and cleaned me up my life has been different ever since. But I understand your story because people dont realize how easy it is to be reckless and create enormous debt and how fast you can do it. I learned that the hard way. Over a two year span I created some major damage. But I learned a lot of valuable lessons for the past 10 years I have been clean and for the past 5-6 years I have been completely debt free and now I play for pleasure not to make a living.

    You sound like a very smart young man, keep your head on straight…you stated you now have a great job, when you see your paycheck every week look at it remind yourself how many years you had to put in to get that job and how hard you have to work each and every week to earn the salary that you do before you dip into it to gamble. Before you say to yourself “let me take one shot…” think about how sick to your stomach you will be when you piss away your paycheck in two hours which took you 40 hours to earn. Doesn’t make sense does it.

    I can tell you this you will never get that money back so forget it. Chalk it up as a life lesson and move on. You got a lot a years ahead of you, you will have that money back in your pocket in no time trust me. It can be done I am living proof.

    Good luck.

  • ihave6rolls

    Thanks for all the support guys. Again, I just hope someone who is maybe going the same path that I did will read this and learn from me. It is a terrible feeling that I do not wish upon anyone.

  • Russthabus26

    @ihave6rolls said...

    Thanks for all the support guys. Again, I just hope someone who is maybe going the same path that I did will read this and learn from me. It is a terrible feeling that I do not wish upon anyone.

    Keep your head up. Keep plugging. And absolutely pay as much as you can every month. Make a concise budget and stick to it. Even look at a second job possibly even if for a few hours a week and put all that money into the CCs. Also consider telling your loved ones. If it’s a long term serious GF i would probably start with her. She can give you emotional support. Good luck with everything.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    One thing you can do is warn people about the dangers of credit card debt. How did you get $26,000 of credit as a college student? Credit card companies generally never do this. Any details here would be helpful to others who might find themselves going down that same path.

  • ihave6rolls

    @sochoice said...

    One thing you can do is warn people about the dangers of credit card debt. How did you get $26,000 of credit as a college student? Credit card companies generally never do this. Any details here would be helpful to others who might find themselves going down that same path.

    I can’t really say how I got that much because I don’t know. Only credit I had to my name was paying off a car payment so that helped build my credit. Other than that though, I don’t really know. I wish I could be more helpful as to how I got that much

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    @ihave6rolls said...

    I can’t really say how I got that much because I don’t know. Only credit I had to my name was paying off a car payment so that helped build my credit. Other than that though, I don’t really know. I wish I could be more helpful as to how I got that much

    Yeah that could be it. If you don’t mind, would you name the card companies so college age kids can watch for their marketing on campus/internet/tv, etc. Thanks in advance.

  • ihave6rolls

    Chase Sapphire preferred and the Chase Amazon card

  • bigez952

    I agree with sochoice in how it is terrible that a credit card company would give so much credit to someone who obviously can afford it knowing they will be forced to pay thousands in interest if you use it. Your $25,000 in debt will probably end up costing you $40,000 to $50,000 due to the insane 20-40% interest rates your paying. I would look into debt consolidation companies to see if you can get a lower interest loan form anyone to get out of the credit cards. Credit cards are set up so once you get it debt it is really difficult to ever get out of it due to paying so much interest so it is important to never pay the minimum payment and get the debt off the credit cards as soon as you can.

  • Lathum

    Credit card companies, and lending in general are disgusting and predatory. Consider yourself lucky. I know it sounds crazy, but it is a relatively low amount, at a point in your life you don’t have big expenses, kids, home, etc…Lots of other people in much worse spots. Pay it off as fat as possible, the interest can be a beast. I would shop around and see if you can get a 0% interest card you can transfer the balance to.

    Some other free advice. Don’t know how serious you and your girl are, but if it is serious, you need to tell her. No way this doesn’t come up if you move in together, etc…

  • ihave6rolls

    I’m looking into some places to either get a loan or transfer. Not sure where I’ll go or what I’ll do but I have 2 weeks before my new job starts so going to try and find something before then

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Sorry you had to go through that, I did similar things while I’m college, but at that point it was online poker/casino, and other addictive things like sports trading cards.

    I hope you found something cathartic in typing that, and I wanted to respond to say how important it is for posts like this to exsist.
    With DFS, as well as the “hobbies” I listed, there often is an internet culture where the incredible wins are celebrated and the darker side is too often ignored. It becomes easy to get caught in that allure. It must be easy…everyone is winning!

    Hopefully someone that may need some perspective sees this, and I wish you well in recovering from your mistakes.

  • Mheff31

    I was able to get a Chase Sapphire card with a 10k limit when all I had ever done was payoff a car while I was living at home. They market that card to younger individuals with travel and dining perks and $500point bonus if you charge 3k in the first 3 months.

    I have had friends who will apply for multiple credit cards in the same day before they show up on your credit report. Crazy how the credit card industry works.

  • jimmyquinella

    • Blogger of the Month

    It’s a good story that has been told millions of times. (No offense meant, just that many have had your experience)

    Right now you seem to have a goal, but none of it will matter if you do not stick to it. (So stick to it!)

    I will say there is something lost with today’s gamblers, now that the internet has made it easy to transfer and spend funds.

    The ability to hold and see the cash you were winning and losing could tend to slow many part timers down and “awaken” them to the reality of the situation.

    Since you have decided this is not the route you want to take, make sure you stay focused on debt relief and don’t go crazy.

    Good luck.

    .

  • txdave41

    @Mheff31 said...

    I was able to get a Chase Sapphire card with a 10k limit when all I had ever done was payoff a car while I was living at home. They market that card to younger individuals with travel and dining perks and $500point bonus if you charge 3k in the first 3 months.

    I have had friends who will apply for multiple credit cards in the same day before they show up on your credit report. Crazy how the credit card industry works.

    Crazy thing is when I was in college, I couldn’t get approved for even a crappy JC Penny credit card. I was known as a ghost in the system because I had never put myself in debt. So I wasn’t worthy to have a credit card because I was financially responsible. lol

    I guess the credit card companies want people who fall in that medium of not paying off their balance each month, but still able to make payments vs someone completely unproven who may just never pay off the balances.

  • tippycat

    I am glad you recognize the problem, to overcome denial is the first step. Try not to be hard on yourself. Take the proper steps and that might include placing yourself on the self exclusion list, cutting up the CC’s, attending G.A. meetings. Be glad as a young man you realize that gambling might be a problem for you. It happens to people, it doesn’t make you a bad person.

    Take care of yourself and good luck.

  • jimmyquinella

    • Blogger of the Month

    And to point out the obvious that has been stated before.

    No one has a “Gambling problem” as in so much as they have a “Losing problem”

    If a Gambler won all the time he never would have a problem, hence there are no winners attending GA meetings.

    It’s losing and how to deal with the emotions and financial loss that I recommend you focus on. (My opinion)

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    ^
    That’s so wrong, it comes across as offensive to someone who’s had even a hint of a gambling problem.

    I’ll try to avoid a lengthy rant, but if you ever hear anyone speak about gambling addiction it more often than not directly correlates to compulsive and self-destructive behavior. So much so that I’ve heard many come to the self-realization that they actually are more addicted to the loss. It’s the process of feeling, it’s the intense thrill of winning and crippling pain that comes from losing. Not all that different from a drug.

    For many that gamble there is no thought process that says “lost that bet but, Wow I’m up 1k. I’m happy, let’s put half of that away and I can come back and bet some more later” for someone with a gambling problem it’s “lost that bet. Down to winning 1k. I’m just going to bet once more. Get it back to 1.2k then I’m walking awa…oh lost again, well I’ll win the next one. Shit! Down to 500! I’ll just find A sure thing double it up, get back to 1k, then. Lost that too..(experience crippling depression and self loathing. Eventually rationalize only way out is gambling more) .I’ll just redeposit. Only half, one bet, get it back then walk away! Yes! I won. Well now I’m hot, mine as well keep going…etc, etc and so forth”
    That scenario can play out positive from there, that person can win 10x there money, and somehow someway eventually lose it all again.
    I suppose in some over-simplified, ridged definition, it is the “losing” that’s the problem. But for the majority that suffer from a gambling problem, it’s the winning that equally fuels the addiction and creates a vicious circle that is difficult to break.

  • lpdev

    @jimmyquinella said...

    And to point out the obvious that has been stated before.

    No one has a “Gambling problem” as in so much as they have a “Losing problem”

    If a Gambler won all the time he never would have a problem, hence there are no winners attending GA meetings.

    It’s losing and how to deal with the emotions and financial loss that I recommend you focus on. (My opinion)

    When you don’t have anything constructive to say on a thread like this, it’s sometimes best just to not say anything. (My opinion)

  • jimmyquinella

    • Blogger of the Month

    @lpdev said...

    When you don’t have anything constructive to say on a thread like this, it’s sometimes best just to not say anything. (My opinion)

    And of course, I disagree. (Although I caught the condescension there)

    What I said is very constructive, and comes from years of experience.

    While my story is not unique at all (or important), I believe the correct focus on certain parts of gambling addiction can help with inexperienced.

    Life (as it pertains to gambling) is very simple and I hope that an explanation containing more than the standard “seek help” would at least show a different side.

    If being a gambler is something you want to do, then craft your life around it. Learn all you can about budgeting, game theory, odds, etc. Make sure no one relies on you for support and don’t lead a life outside of it.
    Accept that this is what you want to do (Pool, Poker, Horses, etc.) and realize that most of the time you will building a bankroll instead of protecting one.

    It sounds like this person got excited with the possibilities of winning at DFS and overextended him and his bankroll. (As almost all of us do)

    The regret he has is in the result, not the action. This is why I came across as destructive and simple with my initial answer. It is not to encourage or discourage him from a life in it, but to show him the decisions one must make every day.

    tl;dr : If you want to do this, than regroup rebuild and learn from it.
    If you think this isn’t for you, then you have years ahead of you to figure out what that will be. Make a plan, get out of debt and have a happy life.

  • lpdev

    @jimmyquinella said...

    And of course, I disagree. (Although I caught the condescension there)

    What I said is very constructive, and comes from years of experience.

    While my story is not unique at all (or important), I believe the correct focus on certain parts of gambling addiction can help with inexperienced.

    Life (as it pertains to gambling) is very simple and I hope that an explanation containing more than the standard “seek help” would at least show a different side.

    If being a gambler is something you want to do, then craft your life around it. Learn all you can about budgeting, game theory, odds, etc. Make sure no one relies on you for support and don’t lead a life outside of it.
    Accept that this is what you want to do (Pool, Poker, Horses, etc.) and realize that most of the time you will building a bankroll instead of protecting one.

    It sounds like this person got excited with the possibilities of winning at DFS and overextended him and his bankroll. (As almost all of us do)

    The regret he has is in the result, not the action. This is why I came across as destructive and simple with my initial answer. It is not to encourage or discourage him from a life in it, but to show him the decisions one must make every day.

    tl;dr : If you want to do this, than regroup rebuild and learn from it.
    If you think this isn’t for you, then you have years ahead of you to figure out what that will be. Make a plan, get out of debt and have a happy life.

    This is a much better post. I think most of this message was missed in my interpretation of your previous one. Thanks for elaborating. It is certainly easy to overextend your bankroll and get yourself in a bind playing DFS (even if you have a strategy that would give you a positive ROI long-term).

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    Not sure about the other sites, but I know Draftkings and Fanduel both offer responsible gaming self-exclusions:

    https://www.fanduel.com/responsibleplay
    https://www.draftkings.com/account/selfexclusion

  • quackinup

    i agree with the poster that it could be worse. You should count yourself lucky you’re young. 25k sounds like alot but its an amount you can fix. Some credit card advice. DONT miss a payment, keep good credit. If you have good credit you will get low interest credit card offers. Transfer to lowest interest you can, then make sure you keep track of the interest rate (ussually the best interest offers limit the time period like 2 percent for a year, then in jumps to 12). Watch for this then and when an interest rate jumps up, thats when you transfer to another card. As long as you keep good credit you can keep transferring till its paid off and you can keep a low rate. lastly read the fine print, companies have gotten very tricky. For instance on the face of the offer it might look like 3percent but read the fine print and it says that rate is limited to new purchases, transfers are not new purchases. srry long winded but my point is be careful, be methodical and read fine print with credit card companies.

    on the dfs side, sounds like bankroll management got you in big trouble. Much better to just put an amount on and then manage the money like a poker bankroll, personally i try to not risk more than 10% on a particular slate. You can slide this number up and down though with how tight you wanna be with the bankroll. Managing a bankroll correctly allows you to play through the bad variance.

    good luck

  • jimmyquinella

    • Blogger of the Month

    @lpdev said...

    This is a much better post. I think most of this message was missed in my interpretation of your previous one. Thanks for elaborating. It is certainly easy to overextend your bankroll and get yourself in a bind playing DFS (even if you have a strategy that would give you a positive ROI long-term).

    No problem, and looking back I see now I should have taken the time to post a more in depth response.

    Thanks for the call out.

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