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  • mjordantmac

    • 2016 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I would hate to be the cause of another DFS world war but something has to be done. It was pretty obvious (through Twitter) that some of us were mad at the fact that we don’t have the ability to mass edit on FD. The Lowry news on 1/18 about 13 minutes before lock was very tough to handle on FD due to not being able to use CSV’s. Consider the next few points when analyzing Saahil’s lineups.

    • Lowry was $9k. The next closest priced PG was $6.7 (Dragic)… a considerable amount less than Lowry
    • You couldn’t global swap Jameer Nelson (a popular value play before the Lowry news) because Nelson was cheaper than Joseph
    • With no CSV’s to edit and 150 lineups in every tournament, it becomes near impossible to adjust lineups in ten minutes

    Here is a link to yesterday’s qualifier (smallest tournament I could find) to see all 150 of his entries.

    FD Qualifier Link

    The following image is approximately his 100+ lineup on the 236th page.

    I’d say about 95% of his lineups up to that point all had Joseph and used up the salary cap. High volume players in this same tournament had about $5k leftover salary because of their global swap efforts. It seems to me that Saahil is doing this on his own and FD has decided to ignore the issue. Both are in wrongdoing and nothing is being done.

    Seems like a coincidence that Saahil crushed every tournament on the site? I think not.

    https://www.fanduel.com/games/17689/contests/17689-206642361/scoring
    https://www.fanduel.com/games/17689/contests/17689-206642422/scoring
    https://www.fanduel.com/games/17689/contests/17689-206642481/entries/1144522924/scoring?entry=1144522924
    https://www.fanduel.com/games/17689/contests/17689-206642509/scoring

    Cory Joseph will most likely replace Channing Frye as Saahil’s new favorite player.
    Feel free to discuss.

  • CUTiger81

    This gets old…..the swap is very easily explainable. If you didn’t end up on Joseph last night you probably shouldn’t be playing NBA DFS anyways. So many sour grapes ITT.

  • SmokestackLightning

    @CJtheGrump said...

    To play Devil’s Advocate:

    - What was his planned exposure to Lowry in the first place? Can’t be known, but if it was only 20% (possible) this would be far less daunting a task than if it were 60%.

    - Do you think he could accomplish this with a multi-tab, multi-device, multi-screen approach? All lineups ready to edit? Maybe he works from a spreadsheet which contains each lineup and a link to a contest he’s entered. Then he just page-finds “LOWRY” and opens only the necessary contests each in new tabs.

    - Is it possible he had a relatively high exposure to Joseph in the first place?

    Your point will probably get lost in all the other theorizing, but I imagine this is the most likely scenario.

    Nelson was chalky as hell last night on FD and Joseph was a strong tournament pivot before the Lowry news broke. Given how Joseph crushed value off the bench the previous game against the “defense” of the Nets, plus the elevated blowout risk, it’s more probable saahil had high exposure to begin with. And given his bankroll and ability to assume more risk than most of us, he was able to go that direction before late news made Joseph a must-play. I doubt he was on Lowry much.

    So, perhaps the takeaway here is not to focus on the small chance saahil cheated, but on the much higher probability he was on Joseph from the start, and why he did that. Answer: Because that’s one of the ways to jump the field in tournaments—find a strong pivot off a high-chalk punt. Jameer Nelson was far from a sure thing last night. If one just kept up with the news throughout the day yesterday, it was pretty clear he wasn’t going to start over Barton or Mudiay, which made him a bench play, just like Joseph. With salaries being close to equal, Nelson getting over-pimped by the touts, and Joseph in an even tastier matchup than Nelson (not forgetting Malone’s affinity for incoherent rotations either), Joseph was a shrewd, shrewd play. That the Lowry news broke before lock was probably a gift to the rest of us morons who just mindlessly plugged in Nelson and moved on.

    That aside, FD needs to give it up on mass lineup changes. It’s beyond stupid we can’t make them given the NBA’s penchant for late scratches.

  • fcurev

    • Blogger of the Month

    @saahilsud said...

    This is not true I had 5 out of 17 lineups in the Monster without Joseph (I believe my ending CJ exposure was around 55% in all tournies). Of course all my top lineups had Joseph so if you are scrolling through from front to back it would seem like I had all Joseph.

    I had a substantial amount of Joseph pre the news and if you follow my lineups closely you know that I am generally pretty bullish on CJ.

    Much of my Lowry I had was swapped 2v2 with Joseph/Rozan for Lowry/Barton. You can also global player swap on FD upwards in price provided you have the available salary

    Bingo. I figured it was a 2v2 swap up to Derozan from one of the 5k guards like waiters/gordon prior to your response. People just want to carry around pitch forks and torches.

    I think people always just want to blast the people at the top. Saahilsud wouldn’t want to mark the bullseye on his back any bigger than it already is, at this point I think the benefit of the doubt needs to be given prior to the accusation.

  • wolfjb1

    By the way, he doesn’t play other sites. I just listened to the podcast interview with Dan Back from a week or two ago and he said he only plays DK and FD.

  • Beckhams3Fingers

    @SmokestackLightning said...

    If one just kept up with the news throughout the day yesterday, it was pretty clear he wasn’t going to start over Barton or Mudiay

    Awesome analysis, except for ^ part. I followed the news all day and never say any mention of Nelson not getting the start. In-fact, I woke up this morning still fuming about him and was going to ask people here in: did he in-fact start??

  • donkshow

    Always on a witch hunt.

  • SelfCharmer

    Click bait title (originally is was something along the lines of “Saahil caught red handed last night”), Starts post with “I would hate to start another war etc etc….

    Next time I would advise talking it through maybe with some high level players to get their opinions? Or write it in a way which shows you are asking if it could be done (so you get people on here explaining possibilities etc)

    Too many people ready to complain/blame others/moan about their losses without actually having any evidence of wrong doing with anyone.

    I imagine they are similar people to the ones who cry when a “tout” wins a tournament with exposure to a player they didn’t list 4 days before the contest…

  • SmokestackLightning

    @Beckhams3Fingers said...

    Awesome analysis, except for ^ part. I followed the news all day and never say any mention of Nelson not getting the start. In-fact, I woke up this morning still fuming about him and was going to ask people here in: did he in-fact start??

    I could be wrong about that part, but it was brought up in the analysis and news I was following. At minimum, it wasn’t certain if Nelson was getting the start. Barton seemed like the much smarter bet to get it (especially since it was a b2b and Barton had played the fewest min the previous night due to coming back from illness). In fact, I nearly moved off of Barton because I expected sky-high ownership. Was pleasantly surprised he was only 12% in the Shot.

    Either way, Nelson was a great pivot for tournaments. I’m just grateful for the late Lowry news which got me to move off him. It’s so hard to fade chalk, y’all. Especially punt chalk.

  • WidumBoise

    SAAHIL = G0D

  • WidumBoise

    Cash games are dead according to Saahil- all the $$$$ is in GPP as evidenced last night by all of the dead Lowry $$ that wasn’t swapped by amateur fish not monitoring up to date breaking news.

  • EadesScience

    @Jaredmlevitt said...

    dry rub or marinade? important details you left out.

    Just dusted with flour and slapped in the hot oil………

    Ricky

  • Beckhams3Fingers

    @SmokestackLightning said...

    Either way, Nelson was a great pivot for tournaments. I’m just grateful for the late Lowry news which got me to move off him. It’s so hard to fade chalk, y’all. Especially punt chalk.

    I fell hard for Nelson, and I’m just trying to figure out how I could have moved off him like the “pros” did lol. I feel like had known he wasn’t a sure thing to start, I probably would have gone in a different direction. That’s probably not even the best reason to pivot off him (like you said, high ownership), but at least I wouldn’t have gotten burned.

    At $3100 on DK, starting, highest vegas total and pace on the board, I was unable to pivot. Like you said, sooooo hard to make that move.

    (check your inbox when you get a chance)

  • bric75

    • 20

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #15

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @saahilsud said...

    This is not true I had 5 out of 17 lineups in the Monster without Joseph (I believe my ending CJ exposure was around 55% in all tournies). Of course all my top lineups had Joseph so if you are scrolling through from front to back it would seem like I had all Joseph.

    I had a substantial amount of Joseph pre the news and if you follow my lineups closely you know that I am generally pretty bullish on CJ.

    Much of my Lowry I had was swapped 2v2 with Joseph/Rozan for Lowry/Barton. You can also global player swap on FD upwards in price provided you have the available salary

    I stand corrected.

    OP claimed max use of salary on all entries. That would make global player swamp an unlikely option.

  • Tammy409

    I was home all day and on these forums but was out hunting for Nightcrawlers with my yardman following a post-dusk short storm. I owned Lowry in at least half my Lineups. I should probably get a phone or a clue or care about this stuff, but I just don’t, can’t and I play every day. I don’t max enter or use anything but a bic pen and any available piece of paper to make lineups, but I get that news comes out all the time late and I see people jump like lemmings to roster “Joe Blow” getting spot starts… I think it’s amusing, but whatever. THe news was there. If you care enough to enter a shitload of lineups. If you care enough to monitor news. Logic would dictate that you’d care enough to have the tech tools required to act swiftly on the news you follow. Why vilify one dude for doing what you seemingly would have done too.?

    Seeing something about assistants to help when late breaks happen… Again, he does this for a living and can’t really fault him for that either if it makes a difference in his ability to make the changes required to run his business. I am excusing nobody, but someone having assuming all legal or allowed better, quicker, whatever mousetraps (or more of them) is not a reason cry foul.

  • ocdobv

    @saahilsud said...

    Much of my Lowry I had was swapped 2v2 with Joseph/Rozan for Lowry/Barton. You can also global player swap on FD upwards in price provided you have the available salary

    This explanation makes sense as long as you didn’t have Barton on any single team without Lowry. As far as I know, you have to have available salary on every lineup with that player in order to global swap upward. So, if you had Barton on any single team without Lowry, then you’d have to find that Barton lineup and make available salary on that lineup in order to global swap him upto DDR on every other lineup. I wasn’t so lucky in this regard.

  • Tammy409

    @Beckhams3Fingers said...

    Awesome analysis, except for ^ part. I followed the news all day and never say any mention of Nelson not getting the start. In-fact, I woke up this morning still fuming about him and was going to ask people here in: did he in-fact start??

    I played him (Nelson) Monday and again (at drastically reduced level) last night and was on the threads all day Tuesday. Never once did I see anywhere, hear anywhere, that Nelson was supposed to start the game. That really wouldn’t have made any sense. I was guessing that he was getting more run than the available SG’s (Barton and especially Murray) by virtue of his Monday minutes (31) as they were essentially the same as Mudlay’s (The STARTING PG, whom I played along with him on Monday). Monday was good. I certainly didn’t predict a repeat nor expect him to start at a position he doesn’t naturally play so I got off Nelson for the most part Tuesday as soon as I saw the ‘tautmill’ spinng I knew he’d not help me in any way regardless. You are mad for no reason. Make your own picks and (honest advice) don’t worry so much about who starts a game.

  • steelcitydozer

    Everyone expected blow out and Joseph to exceed value with Lowry in way b4 lock. I still had some Lowry as I have a family and wasn’t glued to my phone at lock ,but I had way more Joseph than lowry with no info of Lowry at all. Leave ppl alone and ear your losses like an adult

  • dakimbell

    @ocdobv said...

    This explanation makes sense as long as you didn’t have Barton on any single team without Lowry. As far as I know, you have to have available salary on every lineup with that player in order to global swap upward. So, if you had Barton on any single team without Lowry, then you’d have to find that Barton lineup and make available salary on that lineup in order to global swap him upto DDR on every other lineup. I wasn’t so lucky in this regard.

    It will tell you how many lineups successfully changed from player x to player y. So you see that the only covered 40% of your lineup, and at the end of the day you know your exposure to the players in that price range, so you go and do the same swap but instead of swapping Lowry/Barton for Joseph/Rozan, you swap Lowry/”(player-popup)Lou Williams”:/players/louis-williams-1044 for Joseph/Rozan, and then Lowry/Waiters for Joseph/Rozan and so on and so forth until you see that you have no further exposure to Lowry.

  • ocdobv

    @squirrelpatrol said...

    It might take a few global swaps (accounting for Lowry lineups where he didn’t have Barton, or Lowry lineups where he already had both Barton and DeRozan) but in a few minutes anyone would be able to get their lineups near-optimal.

    You make this part sound easy. If you use a lot of variation in your lineups, this can be a nightmare.

    It’d be better if fanduel would allow you to swap up to the max salary available on any lineup where you could rather than the min. Or if they would just make an entry edit csv like DK.

  • ocdobv

    @dakimbell said...

    It will tell you how many lineups successfully changed from player x to player y. So you see that the only covered 40% of your lineup, and at the end of the day you know your exposure to the players in that price range, so you go and do the same swap but instead of swapping Lowry/Barton for Joseph/Rozan, you swap Lowry/”(player-popup)Lou Williams”:/players/louis-williams-1044 for Joseph/Rozan, and then Lowry/Waiters for Joseph/Rozan and so on and so forth until you see that you have no further exposure to Lowry.

    This doesn’t make sense. You swap players 1 at a time. Your 1st swap is going to be a down swap: Lowry to Joseph. Then your 2nd swap is going to be an UP swap. You can’t go up from player X to player Y if you don’t have the price difference available in every lineup with player X.

    What you are describing is just the down swaps. That’s easy. It’s the up swaps that are usually difficult.

  • rvmpj10

    if Saahil really didn’t play any Derozan and Lowry together in the first place That makes sense… but 150 to get the right player to global swap up a huge chunk of salary is hard to do in that short of time. In the 10 minutes I had it was difficult enough just to make the one LU and export it all to my Lowry teams. Honestly this would be no issue if FD would just let people edit their scripts just like DK lets you

  • dakimbell

    @ocdobv said...

    This doesn’t make sense. You swap players 1 at a time. Your 1st swap is going to be a down swap: Lowry to Joseph. Then your 2nd swap is going to be an UP swap. You can’t go up from player X to player Y if you don’t have the price difference available in every lineup with player X.

    What you are describing is just the down swaps. That’s easy. It’s the up swaps that are usually difficult.

    Say you know that you have 50% exposure to Lowry and you know the difference in salary between Lowry and Joseph is $5100, so you swap Lowry for Joseph, and now you know you have at least $5100 salary available in all of your new Joseph lineups. Say before the news you know you Lowry and Barton paired together in 50% of lineups, you now know that you have $5100 salary available to upgrade Barton to DeRozan, and the price difference in the two allows for that since the difference in salary between the Barton and DeRozan was $4600. You run those two swaps and cull out all of the Lowry/Barton combos, and then go down the line.

    Again, not ideal, and it would be hard not to leave some salary on the table, but definitely feasible to not leave like $5000 on the table as someone above said. At the end of the day you have a pretty firm handle on what exposure you have, the tiers in salary for all positions on the slate, so you intuitively know where you can upgrade once you downgrade.

  • dakimbell

    @rvmpj10 said...

    if Saahil really didn’t play any Derozan and Lowry together in the first place That makes sense… but 150 to get the right player to global swap up a huge chunk of salary is hard to do in that short of time. In the 10 minutes I had it was difficult enough just to make the one LU and export it all to my Lowry teams. Honestly this would be no issue if FD would just let people edit their scripts just like DK lets you

    In the lineups he had Lowry and Derozan once you swap Lowry for Joseph, in your new Joseph lineups you go upgrade from Derozan to Harden or Nogu to Brolo, etc. I mean it would be shooting from the hip so to speak, but that’s kinda the cards your dealt if you have 100’s of lineups out there and get the late scratch news.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @dakimbell said...

    Say you know that you have 50% exposure to Lowry and you know the difference in salary between Lowry and Joseph is $5100, so you swap Lowry for Joseph, and now you know you have at least $5100 salary available in all of your new Joseph lineups. Say before the news you know you Lowry and Barton paired together in 50% of lineups, you now know that you have $5100 salary available to upgrade Barton to DeRozan, and the price difference in the two allows for that since the difference in salary between the Barton and DeRozan was $4600. You run those two swaps and cull out all of the Lowry/Barton combos, and then go down the line.

    Again, not ideal, and it would be hard not to leave some salary on the table, but definitely feasible to not leave like $5000 on the table as someone above said. At the end of the day you have a pretty firm handle on what exposure you have, the tiers in salary for all positions on the slate, so you intuitively know where you can upgrade once you downgrade.

    I stopped playing on FanDuel, but you are missing the part where if you have Barton in any lineups originally WITHOUT Lowry. The global swap feature will not work. You could have 50 lineups with Lowry/Barton. 1 lineup with just Barton and no Lowry. So you swap all of Lowry to Joseph. Great. Now when you try to swap all your lineups with Barton to Derozan, it will not work because you would not have the salary available in that 1 Barton lineup.

    This can make using global swap very difficult if it’s not just 1 like for like replacement. FanDuel has always need to improve this. That being said, I do not doubt that someone who does this professionally is always prepared for contingencies and has a strong system in place to make lineup changes when late news comes out. May not always be optimal, but much better than the average user.

  • dakimbell

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I stopped playing on FanDuel, but you are missing the part where if you have Barton in any lineups originally WITHOUT Lowry. The global swap feature will not work. You could have 50 lineups with Lowry/Barton. 1 lineup with just Barton and no Lowry. So you swap all of Lowry to Joseph. Great. Now when you try to swap all your lineups with Barton to Derozan, it will not work because you would not have the salary available in that 1 Barton lineup.

    This can make using global swap very difficult if it’s not just 1 like for like replacement.

    Right but it would say 49 out of 50 lineups changed. It will let you swap all of the lineups that have the needed available salary from Barton to DeRozan.

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