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  • BurrTheBaddestB

    I know that I am undoubtedly beating a dead horse here with the creation of this new thread, but I gotta get something off of this massive chest ‘o mine that is beginning to grind at my inner “bitch”.

    This season – more so than ever before – pros, so-called “gurus”, and yes, even some decent-sized “sharks” seem to be flooding the “$250 NBA Mini Swat” GPP’s over on FanDuel. Some of them are very recognizable names in the DFS game (as well as being members of this site to boot). With such large amounts of money already won over time and seemingly limitless bankrolls at their disposal, this is as unsettling to me as it is humorous.

    Why are they even wasting their time (and mine) and why do they also seem to be seeking out each and every empty or unfilled “novice” and/or “small fish” opportunity that is possible nowadays?

    Is it an ego thing?

    Is it some kind of power play to remind everyone that you’re going to have to go through them no matter where you may try to play and no matter what amount that you’re willing to wager?

    There has got to be some underlying reason(s) as to how and why this is more prevalent now than during any other season/sport that I’ve noticed to date. If not for any of the aforementioned ones that I just questioned above, though, certainly for a different one…right?

    Any further thoughts and comments on this new(ish) (and absolutely pathetic) trend that I’ve noticed is welcomed and encouraged, gang. Thanks!

  • dude_abides7

    @Njsum1 said...

    So if 14% is the actual percentage of profitable players over the long term that’s very good, and directly in line with season long leagues, especially considering the quality of the competition in DFS.

    The problem is that of your 14% that are profitable most are marginally profitable (maybe up $500-$1000 for a year) and then there is the less than 1% that make up of 90% of the winnings. Then those numbers don’t look so hot anymore.

  • MickyD10970

    @Njsum1 said...

    So if 14% is the actual percentage of profitable players over the long term that’s very good, and directly in line with season long leagues, especially considering the quality of the competition in DFS.

    I would be absolutely shocked if the number was anywhere near this high and would need to see proof to believe it

  • Njsum1

    @dude_abides7 said...

    The problem is that of your 14% that are profitable most are marginally profitable (maybe up $500-$1000 for a year) and then there is the less than 1% that make up of 90% of the winnings. Then those numbers don’t look so hot anymore.

    Well, not true, if you consider that the 1% of the 14% also comprise 90 percent of the volume played, which is why they have 90 percent of the profits. It’s all relative. It would be incorrect to think the profits should be evenly distributed among the 14 percent unless they all played equal volume, which we all know is not the case.

  • dude_abides7

    @Njsum1 said...

    Well, not true, if you consider that the 1% of the 14% also comprise 90 percent of the volume played, which is why they have 90 percent of the profits. It’s all relative. It would be incorrect to think the profits should be evenly distributed among the 14 percent unless they all played equal volume, which we all know is not the case.

    That’s true. Good point. The volume is certainly relative to the profit share. My point is you could see the argument from both sides and craft it accordingly.

  • BurrTheBaddestB

    @KillaChap said...

    I think the point here is really more of “why the hell can’t these guys just let us little guys play and make our buck back? “ I think most everyone understands they’re not breaking any rules and they’re just trying to make as much money as they can they just don’t understand why they bother. It’s sort of like the varsity basketball team scrimmaging the 6th grade team and then rejecting every shot they take. No one can really say they’re breaking the rules and the 6th graders didn’t have to participate but do the big kids reallllly need to swat the ball back in their face?

    ^^^^^
    This was basically the point I was trying to make/get across – in a nutshell – when I initially created this thread.

    I GET why most sharks/pros do it, but it STILL annoys the piss outta me. And hey, last time I checked, venting/bitching feels pretty damn good sometimes. This was the most logical place, I felt, for me to initiate a thought-provoking rant at the time amongst peers/fellow DFSer’s.

  • wildcatfan9698

    From my last post on this subject……

    There was a time in my younger days when I would have Protested the Professionals trying to Protract Profits from the unProtected masses. However, now that I understand the Profoundly Productive nature of the Programming Process is critiical in achieving Prolonged Profitability, I fall on the side of Proclaiming them Proactive Proprietors of the DFS world. Their continued Proficiency in an ever changing Processional of Protagonists is quite Profound.

  • billholler

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    @dude_abides7 said...

    The problem is that of your 14% that are profitable most are marginally profitable (maybe up $500-$1000 for a year) and then there is the less than 1% that make up of 90% of the winnings. Then those numbers don’t look so hot anymore.

    Is this more of your random made up conspiracy posts or do you actually have some stats to back up your jibberish?

  • dude_abides7

    @billholler said...

    Is this more of your random made up conspiracy posts or do you actually have some stats to back up your jibberish?

    It all makes sense now….you’re a Dallas Cowboys fan.

    “8 year olds, Dude”

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

      FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I brought this up years ago. Of course I was laughed at by a self appointed “legend of dfs”. I would have been laughed at even more then if I would have brought up “beginner” and “intermediate” contests. Yet here we are today. This outcome was so predictable it’s not even funny. Everything I said has come to fruition.

    There is ZERO incentive for the sites to be proactive on this. In fact, they are doing just the opposite as they see their player pool dwindling. There is ZERO incentive for the millionaires of DFS not to play the $.25 and $1 games.

    What will be the outcome eventually is the pace that the churn through the minnows will increase, but the pace that new suckers I mean players join will decrease. Thus, you will have a final battle royale with only a few players left standing at the end before Fanduel/Draftkings goes out of business. There can only be one!

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

      FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist
    @billholler said...

    Is this more of your random made up conspiracy posts or do you actually have some stats to back up your jibberish?

    The 14% number can be found on Draftkings frontpage of their mobile app under “Average Results”. You have to scroll down to the bottom of the page, at least I had to on my phone.

    75% of players on DK in the last 7 days were losers. 71% were losers over the last 30 days. So it isnt “jibberish”.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    In a small sample size like that a large portion of that 14% is also going to include most people that won or even finished high in tournaments over the past week/month.

    If you’re looking for consistent winners that number is going to be far lower.
    As it stands, DK posting those of late really puts things in perspective, I usually post them in any thread where people are frustrated that they aren’t winning enough or think there’s some easy solution to get better.

  • SelfCharmer

    @BurrTheBaddestB said...

    ^^^^^
    This was basically the point I was trying to make/get across – in a nutshell – when I initially created this thread.

    I GET why most sharks/pros do it, but it STILL annoys the piss outta me. And hey, last time I checked, venting/bitching feels pretty damn good sometimes, so this was the most logical place, I felt, for me to initiate a thought-provoking rant at the time amongst peers/fellow DFSer’s.

    But you yourself want to play in “beginner” games because you find it harder to win otherwise.

    If you’re going to be a hypocrite, prepare to be called out on it, this is the internet after all…

  • Heffner

    I know this is probably too optimistic, but I wonder if the reason that Fan Duel or Draft Kings aren’t making any effort to cater to the average player is due to the upcoming merger. Why make an effort to do a wholesale change when the individual sites won’t be operating the same way in the future. The merger is the critical point for the health and longevity of the DFS industry. They can continue to cater to the high entry player, and eventually run off much of their customer base, or cater to all types of players, pros and novices alike and grow in overall popularity. I think the key is to have a cap limit on the number of entries that a user can have during an entire day, to include all sports. If a user could only enter 500 entries over the entire day, I think this would prevent many of the high rollers from entering the cheaper contests due to the lack of potential earnings, especially those that play multiple sports (especially during NFL season). I’m not against the pros making their money, but they shouldn’t be the sole focus of the DFS companies. Hopefully the merger of Fan Duel and Draft Kings will make it a better industry for all players. With that said, I will probably be wrong and DFS will peter out in a few years after another major cheating scandal :(

  • dude_abides7

    @Heffner said...

    I know this is probably too optimistic, but I wonder if the reason that Fan Duel or Draft Kings aren’t making any effort to cater to the average player is due to the upcoming merger.

    OK fine.

    So what was their excuse for ignoring the average player for the last 5 years, pre-merger announcement?

  • GGee87

    I was thinking the same thing the other day. FD/DK needs more intermediate contests. I am a small stakes player who occasionally wins $5- $10 profit on a given slate. I play DFS for fun and entertainment… but I would also like to increase my odds of cashing by playing against players of my same skill level. If im losing to Joe Blow who spent a handful of hours on research… I can handle that pretty easily. Its when you see the same 50 or so players winning most of the contests that it becomes a little discouraging. MOST players dont have 5+ hours to research each day or the extra $ for optimizers or what not… The sites need a tier for players like this too. I lucked up and tied for 1st in the big FD tourney at the end of NBA last year… Other than that ive only hit for $75 once and several small wins here and there. I did this before they offered “beginner” contests so I never had the chance to try those out… and because I lucked out in my first few months of NBA DFS… I have no other options. Id really like to see wholesale changes to this… but im afraid it wont happen.

  • Cpjttogether

    Oh are the beginner contests not flooded with roto ql ,number fire ,monster roster or fantasy labs optimized line ups yet? can a beginner not buy a premium line up and play it? what a mess.

  • stayready40

    @whateverworks_187 said...

    #1 – I think its a little silly for the really high rollers to enter anything under $3. MANY of them don’t (SaahilSud for example).

    This not a good example because SaahilSud does play in $3 entries on Dk I just played him last night in a $3 3 max entry and the other night in a Single entry $5 contest. and for him to be a tout playing that low is kind of shitty for new comers.

  • zshoom

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    I don’t really see a problem with people entering the tournaments mentioned on this post (FD Mini swat). They cost a buck and a win brings back $30 I think. The same lineup that turns $1 into $30 in these things would likely turn $3 into $6 in the big tournament. Why wouldn’t pro’s enter them, and why shouldn’t they be allowed to? This is a skill game, correct? If there is a problem here, it’s that the tournaments are multiple entry, which is on the sites, not the players.

    Low buy in cash games are a much bigger issue, but again, this is on the sites, not the players. I have no clue why the sites allow multiple entries in 50/50 and double up tournaments, when they also offer those exact same tournaments at a higher price point. Why let someone enter $25 worth of identical lineups in a $1 50/50, when they could just enter a $25 50/50? There is no reason to do this (other than letting the lesser sharks eat, at the expense of the small budget player).

    Multi-entry should be restricted to big tournaments with over a thousand participants and over 10k in prizes. Cash games, and any tournaments with less than a thousand players or less than 10k in prize money, should be single bullet only.

  • BurrTheBaddestB

    @SelfCharmer said...

    But you yourself want to play in “beginner” games because you find it harder to win otherwise.

    If you’re going to be a hypocrite, prepare to be called out on it, this is the internet after all…

    No, I play in “Beginner” games because I AM—*ahem*—a BEGINNER. I literally JUST started playing DFS and getting serious about it a little over a month ago.

  • Roma315

    Anyone saying the Pros don’t play lower stakes must be joking. Atleast 5 well known pros were max entered into FDs $3 NHL last night 😑😐

  • jjwd

    I’d like to share a few “philosophical” opinions on this matter. What are your expectations? Are you trying to have fun and bink something one in a while? Or are you trying to make DFS your part-time job? I’m not sure there is (or ever has been) a lot of room in between these 2 options. It might just be the nature of the game. The second goal takes A LOT of work, and patience. I think NBA is the sport most affected by DFS tools and info. And NBA cash games are going to be very tough from here on out. That’s just the reality. But there are a lot of other options out there. And there is a difference between 1 dollar h2hs, and max entering a large 3 dollar tournament. You wouldn’t be able to bink a big score if the “sharks” weren’t putting in 150 entries.

    If the real beef is “pros” playing in micro-limit contests, then stick to that point. Get RG on your side or find some other advocate organization. There are constructive ways to make things happen. It’s not too late for action. Obviously the big 2 sites have made numerous errors. But the climate is always changing, and imo you can’t expect them to make the exact moves you wanted them to make 2 years ago. Cal’s point about sites acting in their own best interests is a valid one. If they want to stay in business, they will fix the big issues sooner or later. If they don’t stay in business, some other sites will crop up. That’s an optimistic view, but it’s also a reasonable one. In the meantime, if you don’t like what the big 2 sites are doing, there are 2 other sites you can play on.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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    @thedude404 said...

    There is ZERO incentive for the sites to be proactive on this. In fact, they are doing just the opposite as they see their player pool dwindling. There is ZERO incentive for the millionaires of DFS not to play the $.25 and $1 games.

    What will be the outcome eventually is the pace that the churn through the minnows will increase, but the pace that new suckers I mean players join will decrease. Thus, you will have a final battle royale with only a few players left standing at the end before Fanduel/Draftkings goes out of business. There can only be one!

    You say there is zero incentive for the sites to be proactive but then you mention the enormous incentive they have to be proactive.

    If you are correct in your last paragraph, the sites do have a big incentive. You and many others are discouraged or don’t think management at the sites are capable of seeing the forest through the trees, but that’s not the case.

    These two sites raced against each other to the top, constantly raising money, trying to grab marketshare in an enormous untapped player pool. Their sites were probably set too high – there’s still plenty of room to grow, but the projected total player pool for this liquidity-driven salary cap form of DFS is not as big as it was once believed to be. However, there are still millions of players and a lot of money to be made here – as one combined company with a lot more data on the reality of DFS, the decision makers are in a better position to focus growing their actual business instead of racing against each other to the top. I don’t know what this will mean for rake, but I do think it means good things for the common/new player as the sites put more attention into the long term health of the existing ecosystem.

  • monaco712

    I have found the best way to be reasonably successful for an average player to primarily enter
    in head to head contest and chose your opponent. I was doing that for about a month I decided
    to enter a 10 player NHL 50/50 for 10 dollars and lo and behold there was all the top ranked players
    including testosterown and saahisud. If you pick your contestant they will still probably have the max
    badge but you can at least make sure they are not in the grinders top 200.

  • richdelsol

    • 2015 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

      DraftKings FHWC Finalist
    @tamparoor said...

    How about chiploteaddict brother papagates winning the million dollar NFL contest on dk and the very next day he is playing the 25cent contest

    Savage lol

  • QSchoolDropOut

    Let’s assume that daily fantasy continues to expand and gain in popularity.

    If this happens, it will become more like Vegas and usual sports betting.

    The more people play, the less the sharks and pros will have an edge just like the less the sharks and pros have an edge over vegas.

    You assume that these sharks and pros are taking advantage of suckers like you. But in the end, all of us are suckers for playing this game. If anyone tries to make his livelihood from playing fantasy sports, his life must be pretty empty.

    The real sharks are on Wall Street and banking. Don’t believe these con artists that say how they have gamed the system. The only people who have gamed the system are the people who own the web sites. Everyone else is a sucker.

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