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  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    Howdy folks.

    There has long been a heated discussion on the overall value of mega multi entry to dfs both in the long term and short term. I’ll leave that to others. Similar discourse has been made on the cost of qualifying for live finals.

    My suggestion and argument is that there should be more single entry satellite tournaments that allow you to win your way into bigger qualifiers. Both fd and dk run qualifiers at the $1000 level. Both offer satellites to get into these events, but neither limit the volume players from over saturating these.

    I only had a few minutes tonight so I threw some fast lineups to try and win a dk MLB main event seat in the $1 and 3$. Which is nice, but when I look at the leaderboard, a bunch of top players with 100 entries.

    By throwing the smaller players a bone and making one or two of these single entry each day it would vastly increase the ability for smaller and mid level stakes players to feel involved.

    I know for NFL the price point for Qs will drop as the player pool is large, but the field size will grow also.

    It’s much easier to say beat a 115 man $10 tourney and then an 80 man field than it is to beat 5000 people in one event.

    Hope you can follow my point here.

    I rarely feel like I’m 100% correct on anything. On this however, I’m pretty damn sure it would be better for dfs and cost the sites very little at all.

    FCK

  • Mheff31

    I 100% support this. I always enter these satellites hoping to somehow win an entry to one of the larger buy in contests and see top players with 100’s of entries. A couple players make up over half the field. Maybe I am just the dumbass who keeps throwing 2 or 3 entries into them but I keep thinking to myself if I get lucky for two nights I can win life changing money even if I have lost about $300 this season on these types of contests.

  • Heterodox

    Every time I look at the satellites I see them filled with name players and I decide not to join. Are these intended just for those guys, sort of a giveaway in lieu of rakeback? The sites seem all too eager to be in the business of selling chum to sharks.

    I don’t know if single entry solves the problem, because they’re infesting all the satellites, even the small ones where they might have only one entry. And I’m not saying they can’t be beaten either. But seeing not just one but a whole bunch of them in EVERY satellite just turns me off and makes me not want to bother.

    And whether it’s right or wrong, I don’t care, I think it’s embarrassing for DFS as a whole and for those individual players that people with 6 figure bankrolls who play high volume every night are all over the small money satellites, whether is .25 games, $1 games, $3 games. I know there will be legions of sycophants and wannabes who will try to take their side or convince me that this isn’t really a problem or “what could the sites even do” or put the onus on me to try harder to avoid them or just “build better line ups”. You’re full of shit. It’s ridiculous in any kind of real world context.

    And wouldn’t the bigger contests be easier to beat if more recreational players were able to satellite in?

  • 8MileAllstars

    I agree with you and proposed a sort of compromise solution awhile ago about this: DK has beginner leagues, so obviously they can track the number of contests and/or fpp players have. Create a limited amount of different tiers of contests based upon the fpp accumulated by players. Have a contest where you can’t play if more than 25K in fpp, another level at 50K, another level capped at 75K, or something like that. This would keep the DFS businesses (a/k/a pros) out of every motha-f’ing contest.

  • flip4flop

    I agree 100% with the need for qualifiers for to higher event be single entry. They need a step program for larger events much like Pokerstars runs. I think Drafkings steps programs needs to be redone and made to give away live event qualifier tickets at Step 3 and 4.

  • gaelicgirl

    @Heterodox said...

    I think it’s embarrassing for DFS as a whole and for those individual players that people with 6 figure bankrolls who play high volume every night are all over the small money satellites

    Agree 100% with this. It’s absurd to see someone like ganondorf — who already has 50 $300 entries in today’s FD Monster — also have 20 $25 entries in the satellite to the Super Monster. Clearly, a player who can afford to toss $15,000 into one contest doesn’t need a satellite to enter another contest with the same entry fee. This is just greed, pure and simple.
    The sites should throw the smaller players a bone, and make all the satellites single entry. It’s unseemly that players with six figure bankrolls are allowed to dominate Every. Single. Contest.
    This country club mentality will be the death of DFS.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    Ultimately you can’t fight city hall. Trying to stop things that are already in place is difficult.

    My suggestions was just an idea to throw the little guys a bone. 1 or 2 smaller single entry satellites a day. There will likely be a tad bit of overlay, but that can be seen as investing in the long term viability of dfs.

    FCK

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @gaelicgirl said...

    Agree 100% with this. It’s absurd to see someone like ganondorf — who already has 50 $300 entries in today’s FD Monster — also have 20 $25 entries in the satellite to the Super Monster. Clearly, a player who can afford to toss $15,000 into one contest doesn’t need a satellite to enter another contest with the same entry fee. This is just greed, pure and simple.
    The sites should throw the smaller players a bone, and make all the satellites single entry. It’s unseemly that players with six figure bankrolls are allowed to dominate Every. Single. Contest.
    This country club mentality will be the death of DFS.

    Umm no, you are 100% wrong, stop picking on ganondorf and pick on me instead. I also do something like putting in 15 monsters and then the same 15 lineups into every satellite that I can. Why? Because it’s smart, it lets me likely win one of those satellites and reduce my costs, so I can end up with 20’super slugger tickets by paying for 10k worth of satellites instead of paying 22k to actually join them. I then go and win the 100k top prize, so YES all of those satellites are worth it after weeks of entering them. And it is not greed, it is a money management system. Trust me, not myself or ganondorf are worried about anyone else but ourselves. We are putting a calculated effort in to make money, and we will not do things the simple way just because some think it’s unfair. If you don’t like it or are jealous or anything like that, then feel free to join us and put in a few grand every day. No one ever gave me money. I went in debt by design so I could make big money, and that’s what happened, so no one will tell me about fairness or garbage like that.

  • cAUmberlandtiger8

    Don’t hate the player hate the game. Every single one of us would do the same thing these high volume players do if we were good enough and making money at it. It’s smart business.

  • 8MileAllstars

    @cAUmberlandtiger8 said...

    Don’t hate the player hate the game. Every single one of us would do the same thing these high volume players do if we were good enough and making money at it. It’s smart business.

    The pool is going to dry up. Over fishing the pond is not good.

    And Ryazan, if you went into “debt by design” to gamble on DFS you’re a moron. Good for you that you won, but that design is STUPID.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    This thread isn’t meant to be about the validity of high volume players entering satellites. Players will never police themselves and sites will always look to their bottom line.

    The point is to offer up a suggestion that simply offers an alternative path for mid and small stakes players.

    FCK

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I have no issue with both kinds of satellites available.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @8MileAllstars said...

    The pool is going to dry up. Over fishing the pond is not good.

    And Ryazan, if you went into “debt by design” to gamble on DFS you’re a moron. Good for you that you won, but that design is STUPID.

    It’s called an investment, creating money from nothing, if you wanted to make real money, that’s what you should do too. I earned everything I have by taking my calculated risks.

  • einars

    @fishcakeking said...

    There will likely be a tad bit of overlay, but that can be seen as investing in the long term viability of dfs.

    this is why it will never happen imo. no site is going to run a Q that will overlay when they could run one that will fill. The sites dont care who qualifies for the live finals (tho i would imagine a “pro” would be preferable because they would be more likely to dump a larger % of the prize money back in to the site..?). there isnt really any advantage to the site for a regular grinder (whatever that might mean) to qualify over a pro (again…whatever that might mean). therefore it just comes down to profitability and there is no reason to give up overlay when you dont have to.

  • VChair23

    Agree with the premise. I wish there were single entry Q’s. I’m also not sure if either site will put them out there.

  • cAUmberlandtiger8

    I definitely would like the sites to put outs single entry qualifiers. I just dont understand all of the animosity against the mass entry players whether it be satellites, Q’s, GPP, etc. The beef (if any) should be directed at the sites. This discussion has been had ad nauseum so I will refrain from rehashing it.

  • emac

    @Ryazan said...

    by taking my calculated risks.

    Life is a series of calculated risks.

  • poppaspicks

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I like the multi entry sattys but this is also a good idea and one I’ve actually never thought of. Come to think of it, I’m pretty sure fanduel did several for the bracket championship, though. Changing the steps program on DK would be a great way to do this. Those things are pretty much pointless when there’s only 4-5 of the same people in them and thus no one else will join.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @cAUmberlandtiger8 said...

    The beef (if any) should be directed at the sites.

    Agree with above, but I’d add the average player as a cause too. As long as the sites run tournament structures that reward this style of play it’ll continue. The sites will continue to run these tournaments as long as you (general public) continue to sign up for them. How many of you who complain about massive multi entry go put entries into the ridiculous tournies and completely ignore the single entry or smaller size tournys? I think plenty.

    Right now there are 20,000 entries in the massive $25 multi FD football tourny and 400 in the $25 single entry. As long as the average player continues to be dumb the massive multi stuff isn’t changing.

  • gaelicgirl

    @Ryazan said...

    If you don’t like it or are jealous or anything like that, then feel free to join us and put in a few grand every day.

    Ryazan, thank you for this perfect example of the country club mentality of which I spoke.
    I wasn’t picking on ganondorf in particular, just using him as an example, and I’m sure he appreciates your white knighting for him. Perhaps I’ve simply misunderstood the purpose of the satellites from the beginning. I thought they were being offered as an opportunity for small bankroll players to win an entry into high entry fee contests that they would otherwise be unable to afford. With this in mind, maybe you can understand my consternation at finding so many large bankroll players populating the satellites as well as said high entry fee contests that they can already afford to enter.
    I don’t agree that if those players didn’t enter the satellites they would overlay. They would easily fill with small bankroll players who would risk $25 to win a $300 or $1065 entry.
    I also don’t agree that every single one of us would do the same thing these high volume players do. Personally, if I had won $1,000,000 in a live final, I wouldn’t go anywhere near the $1 FD single entry Bunt to win a measly $800. I would leave that speck of chum for the fish.
    It would be great to see you make a commercial for FD or DK, you could make an awesome pitch like, “Come and join us! For only a few grand every day, you too could have a chance to strike it rich!”
    You seem young, Ryazan, so perhaps my old-fashioned concepts of greed and impropriety are alien to you. To use a baseball analogy, the high bankroll players entering the smallest contests is akin to stealing second in the ninth inning when your team is already up 15-0. It’s legal, but it’s not a good look.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @gaelicgirl said...

    You seem young, Ryazan, so perhaps my old-fashioned concepts of greed and impropriety are alien to you. To use a baseball analogy, the high bankroll players entering the smallest contests is akin to stealing second in the ninth inning when your team is already up 15-0. It’s legal, but it’s not a good look.

    Sorry, but there’s no honor in gambling. This isn’t for fun or bowling trophies it’s for money. I don’t think that’s a generational thing it’s just reality.

    The baseball analogy isn’t apples to apples. The reason you don’t steal up 15 in the 9th isn’t to preserve the other team’s selfesteem. It’s because the play is high risk (injury, getting beaned) for virtually zero reward in terms of winning the game.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m a single entry guy who’s made some money doing this, so I don’t love massive multi entry. I just don’t agree that the blame for the situation lies with the guys doing it.

  • fightingjohn

    @Ryazan said...

    Umm no, you are 100% wrong, stop picking on ganondorf and pick on me instead. I also do something like putting in 15 monsters and then the same 15 lineups into every satellite that I can. Why? Because it’s smart, it lets me likely win one of those satellites and reduce my costs, so I can end up with 20’super slugger tickets by paying for 10k worth of satellites instead of paying 22k to actually join them. I then go and win the 100k top prize, so YES all of those satellites are worth it after weeks of entering them. And it is not greed, it is a money management system. Trust me, not myself or ganondorf are worried about anyone else but ourselves. We are putting a calculated effort in to make money, and we will not do things the simple way just because some think it’s unfair. If you don’t like it or are jealous or anything like that, then feel free to join us and put in a few grand every day. No one ever gave me money. I went in debt by design so I could make big money, and that’s what happened, so no one will tell me about fairness or garbage like that.

    Talk about someone high on themselves. I guess we should all bow down and honor oh great one. Please!!!!!!!!!!! Just flashing your big bankroll you are

  • deactivated79425

    satellites make for a double raked event

  • einars

    @riverbandit said...

    satellites make for a double raked event

    explain how winning a 10 person $5 tourny and using that money to enter the slam (or w/e) gets raked less than winning a $5 satellite into the slam.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @einars said...

    this is why it will never happen imo. no site is going to run a Q that will overlay when they could run one that will fill. The sites dont care who qualifies for the live finals (tho i would imagine a “pro” would be preferable because they would be more likely to dump a larger % of the prize money back in to the site..?). there isnt really any advantage to the site for a regular grinder (whatever that might mean) to qualify over a pro (again…whatever that might mean). therefore it just comes down to profitability and there is no reason to give up overlay when you dont have to.

    you may have misunderstood the premise. It wasn’t about single entry Qs that’s too big a risk. By satellites I mean smaller tournaments that would win you a ticket in the $1000 Q tournaments.

    Example would be 115 person $10 buy in with winner getting a seat in a $1,000 Q.

    Overlay exposure for the sites would be limited and if they ran them regularly they would start to fill as do almost all single entry tournamenst that run often.

    FCK

  • srolleDFS

    hi FCK.

    love your podcast. if yall havent ever listened, u should. its good stuff. alot of good guests that u honestly would never want to take a H2H with.

    but id have to disagree… kind of

    $1M 1st prize gets local vegas coverage and a blurb in USA Today. a $10M 1st prize might be on ESPN live. if u restrict money from going into Q’s u r hurting the size of the event. the bigger the finals, the more free advertising dfs gets.

    the sites will prolly try it at some point, but i doubt most people even bother to click to see the opponents already entered. if u care enough about dfs to have an opinion on multi-entry, you are probably multi-entering. i dont find a single entry very exciting, tbh. the high intensity dfs players that only does 1 lineup (in tournament) is pretty rare. i think thats the only person that would be really excited about this.

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