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  • shanksalot

    2013 PFBC Champion, 2013 DFBC Finalist, and 2013 FFFC Finalist

    • 429

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    This may be wishful thinking but figure it’s worth a try. I have filled out the surveys, followed the forums and had several discussions on twitter about the problems with MLB DFS. I’m not here to bash the players who can afford to do it, because in all honesty a majority of us would do the same thing if we could. However the GPPS are becoming almost unplayable with the current rules. Players being allowed to buy 10-20% of entries and stack up to 6 players on certain sites is hurting the game.

    I understand that we need these entries to have all the amazing prizes and events. However I believe the majority of players would be happy to see that decreased a little to level out the playing field a bit. I think this is a problem on all dollar levels and is probably the biggest cause of concern in DFS today. I highly doubt that the sites would ever adjust both at the same time. So my question is what would help the game more smaller stack sizes or less entries per GPP?

    The only way sites will ever adjust is if there is enough feedback from the community to warrant it. SO hopefully with enough discussion this eventually improves the game. Clearly the big decision makers do read these forums and posts so it would be great if we can keep it on this topic and hopefully make some progress.

  • jimmyrad

    I’ve been seeing stacks so bad I don’t know how the guy got the computer on in the first place, yeah, let’s fight to end that.

    What do we want: Smaller fields with less dead money

    When do we want it: Whenever would be convenient for you

  • tvegas40

    I think in the massive GPPs we should remove account player’s name. That way when gpp entry #8,922 beats you out of 621st place you’ll have no idea if it was a single entry or someone with 500 entries….

  • petteytheft89

    • 7

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #7

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Stacking greatly reduces the skill of the game. I think it should be reduced.

  • prpmgroup

    @tvegas40 said...

    I think in the massive GPPs we should remove account player’s name. That way when gpp entry #8,922 beats you out of 621st place you’ll have no idea if it was a single entry or someone with 500 entries….

    So should we play Poker against players with bags over their heads so we have no idea who we are playing against ? LMAO

  • jlove18

    @shanksalot said...

    Sorry but the argument that my 1 entry has just as much of a chance as a pros 25 doesnt work.

    a person with 1 entry has a better chance of being profitable than someone with 25 long term that is a fact.

    the setup now is perfect

  • salarycapfantasy

    @bowens1984 said...

    Considering a lot of pros work in teams especially on the qualifiers limiting entries wont see much of a change, I am absolutely on board with smaller stacks but dont think things will ever change, there have been countless complaints on this and the sites dont seem to care.

    Shish, quiet. Let’s not talk about teams. We would have to drag out another horse.

  • salarycapfantasy

    @jlove18 said...

    a person with 1 entry has a better chance of being profitable than someone with 25 long term that is a fact.

    the setup now is perfect.

    Congrats. Someone finally gets it. For some reason people seem to think that you have a better chance of making money with more entries. That really isn’t the case. The more you enter to win, the more you have to win to pay for the entries.

    It’s like lotto tickets. If you buy $500 worth of tickets you have to have so many winners in there to just break even. You might hit a big winner but odds are you will lose, lose, lose until you can win big again. Some never win big again and go broke.

    Profit, can be had by going simple, covering your GPP entries with easier targets like double ups and improving your game until you can hit it big.

  • dakimbell

    With only 2-3 different lineups a night in the $25 grand slam, I almost always cash. There are nights when I just miss the cash line because there is someone who moves up because they have 20 entries and I miss out by a hair, but all in all I can still make a nice return playing 2-3 smart lineups a night. So like the old adage goes, as long as YOU are making the right choices and trusting your research it doesn’t really matter what the big guys do with all of their different entries. To me i like the thrill and competitive nature of taking down one of these big tournaments with huge payouts each night, I am not interested in putting in a lot of time, research and effort to win a piss ant prize. Without the big boys throwing all those lineups out, the prize money goes down. Besides I would be doing the same thing if I had the bankroll that would allow it.

  • deebarizo

    Well, here’s some feedback for DK.

    I like 6 player stacks and unlimited multi entry. No need to change anything. Your MLB product is great.

  • poppaspicks

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    A lot of misconceptions in here. It pretty much boils down to this…No one is forcing you to enter these contests. If you don’t think its fair, then why would you do something thats not fair, especially when it involves money?

    Sidenote: If you fall into the above, please continue

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 287

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    DraftKings’ product has grown immensely this year. Their 1060 GPP tonight has 6 times more entries than FanDuel. Clearly the results have been there for them.

    What incentive do they have to change when they have seen such enormous growth? If anything that makes them more likely to keep things the same.

    If you don’t like the setup the best way to prove it is to speak with your dollars as others have mentioned.

    Being indirectly told that I am “ruining the game” along with a few others seems just a bit over the top. So is the incorrect assumption that stacking every team works. That was a good chunk of my discussion at DFS Boot camp.

  • sethayates

    People always want to compare DFS to Poker. In this case, the better comparison is craps. A multi-entry stack approach is basically equivalent to betting “64 across” at a $10 craps table. It gets you exposure to 4,5,6,8,9,10 and you only lose on 7. Betting 64 across is a great way to come up really fast at a craps table. It’s also an incredibly quick way to lose your ass.

    A while back I was at a $10 table where a guy turned $10,000 into about $80,000. I didn’t complain. I had the same opportunity he had and his exposure was much greater than mine. In DFS any lineup that can be built by a high bankroll player can also be built by a low dollar player. The person with more entries has more chances to win but they also have more exposure. That’s the way it should be.

  • dakimbell

    and as far as stacking, the only time I do a 4 player stack is if the matchups and all things consider warrant it. If there are better matchups at similar prices I much prefer mini-stacks. Play the matchups, do your research, and you should be fine. To me, this should be fun , if I am losing way more money than I can afford or becoming obsessive over it , I would take a break from it for a week or two and jump back in refreshed.

  • dakimbell

    Well said sir, you nailed it. More risk, more reward, but also the greater risk in losing your ass in a big way.

  • bw5126

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x5

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Stop ruining the game STL!!

  • petteytheft89

    • 7

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #7

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    DraftKings’ product has grown immensely this year. Their 1060 GPP tonight has 6 times more entries than FanDuel. Clearly the results have been there for them.

    What incentive do they have to change when they have seen such enormous growth? If anything that makes them more likely to keep things the same.

    If you don’t like the setup the best way to prove it is to speak with your dollars as others have mentioned.

    Being indirectly told that I am “ruining the game” along with a few others seems just a bit over the top. So is the incorrect assumption that stacking every team works. That was a good chunk of my discussion at DFS Boot camp.

    My main issue with 5-6 man stacking is that it makes mass entering gpp’s in a profitable manner so much easier. The skill gap between the best and stackers is lowered in a GPP greatly because of how easy it is. The people who stack teams in GPP’s and do well tend to be very mediocre cash game players because they cant stack.

  • Ryanoss

    • 2015 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    Brettmarino won the Masters Millionaire Maker with one entry while two users had 999 entries each. I wonder what Brettmarino’s thoughts on multi-entry might be. I know this does not address stacking but it does look at whether someone with one entry can win a big prize. I believe a couple of winners during the NFL season for the Millionaire Maker were also single entry.

  • jecarl2

    I think the initial point is being missed. These gpps, especially the larger ones, are filling much farther in advance than they used to. There is no need to allow someone to buy 20% of the entries when the contest will fill anyway.

    And to just say, “dont play” is lazy. A lot of the single entry tourneys are raked higher and the payouts suck.

    And lets be clear, this is not just happening with gpps. Some of these players are buying into every league possible including $1 denoms. How many of you would like to play 3-mans, 5-mans, etc… but don’t because the same guys is in every league offered?

    I’m not against stacking or multi entry but there has to be a better “middle ground”

  • baseballs

    @glennantz said...

    A few more single entrée GPP on FD would be nice.

    are you sure there’s an appetite for this?

  • shanksalot

    2013 PFBC Champion, 2013 DFBC Finalist, and 2013 FFFC Finalist

    • 429

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Yes you are a big fan of the multi entry and to your credit you are very good at it. However I wasn’t referencing you when I said that. The assumption I do have is this is a forum where players can give opinions on what they think will make the game better.

    This isnt only about DK its about FD as well. Both sites have seen tremendous growth and I as well love the prize pools. However that doesn’t mean they still cant improve the game experience. I understand the risk reward with multiple entries. I have seen many guys win a ton of money and I have also seen many people vanish from the DFS landscape.

    Also I respect your game and what you bring to the industry, with that being said Cards you are better than the if you dont like it take your money elsewhere answer.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    Disclaimer: I didn’t read all the replys as I’ve seen most everyone’s opinion on this before.

    I don’t think the issue is stacking or massive multi entry, it’s the pay structure. The blind stacking and 300+ entry guys are making the big tourneys somewhat easier to cash, but it’s become exceedingly difficult to place top 5. The trouble is that the deep payout and hugely top heavy structure is requiring top 5s to actually make any money. If payouts went back to being 10-15% deep and were flatter a decent player could make a nice profit on top 3%-5% finishes which are pretty attainable. I used to be very very profitable as a single entry“ish” player and it’s now become absolutely brutal.

  • SugabearCassadine

    If there were more single entry games on either site, I’d have no problem with multi-entries because I could simply not play those games as I do for the most part now, but there just aren’t as many opportunities for the single entry player.

  • mke272

    @petteytheft89 said...

    My main issue with 5-6 man stacking is that it makes mass entering gpp’s in a profitable manner so much easier. The skill gap between the best and stackers is lowered in a GPP greatly because of how easy it is. The people who stack teams in GPP’s and do well tend to be very mediocre cash game players because they cant stack.

    So why should DK change their rules to allow less stacking? It’s almost like you are trying to make the argument why stacking is good for them as a site but then concluding that they shouldn’t do it.

  • DFSviz

    @sethayates said...

    A while back I was at a $10 table where a guy turned $10,000 into about $80,000. I didn’t complain.

    you also weren’t competing against him so there isn’t a reason to complain

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    I have no issue with stacking, I do however find it frustrating the lack of control players have in avoiding extreme multi-entry.

    Earlier this season I played the $0.25 352 man qualifiers where the top 25 won a $3 ticket (maximum of 30 entries per players). The factor that drove me out was constantly seeing over a third of the entries owned by 7-8 players. In a league where only 7% of the entries cash, it seems absurd to me that a small number of players could own such an extreme edge over the field (let alone the fact that one player could theoretically win every ticket).

    Yes, I understand that this can also mean the field as a whole may be softer, but it also means that a great night by you can be all for not depending on how 3 or 4 other players perform. This is where the argument is all opinion.

    What I don’t understand though is why even at the smallest of stakes, guidelines are in place to where the game can be dominated by a small handful of players. It would just be nice to see options available to let people play the game as a hobby and not feel like every single aspect of DFS heavily favors those who can enter more lineups than most (single entry or 3-5 maximum entries would be nice). I’m not asking for widespread DFS changes because at some point people do deserve the benefit of an edge based on the risk they are assuming.

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