INDUSTRY FORUM

  • 2Slik

    • Ranked #15

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Can we get it out of the way and discuss the elephant in the room, Stake Kings?

    Is there a difference between lineup selling and crowdfunding?

    I get it but I’m not sure how well this is going to go over.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @BobbyTheBrain said...

    what do you think is gonna happen once gambling is legal, people are gone. im telling you man they better do something to stop the sharks from manipulating the rules to feed off of the casual players. me personally once i know i can go and bet on an indians or a cubs game im done. ill get my “fix” that way rather than making these sharks richer. what annoys me the most is the sites cater to them. gonna bite them in the long run.

    People are not going to just run to sports betting. it cracks me up that ppl think that is the case. The lure of the GPP will always be there. Sports betting is like a cash game.

  • BobbyTheBrain

    what ever u say bud ill put my 50.00 on a 4 team parlay to win between 6-800$ everynight before i throw a single 50.00 dart in a dfs tournament that has about 10-20 pros max entered

  • divusjulius

    • Blogger of the Month

    @SmartWater said...

    That had nothing to do with staking.

    not to mention that staking exists for real life poker, and online poker still exists in many states in the USA.

    also, what STLCards is doing is completely ethical, and even a bit honorable, as he is making his staking arrangements public and allowing the general public to get a shot to invest, as opposed to the small pool of VC investors.

    plus, as noted already, staking in DFS goes on every day —it is going on today—there are teams behind some user names, there are players funded by investors etc. here at least it is out in the open.

    i do think lpdev made some very valid points, however.

  • noddy

    Will there be one tonight?

  • hendog

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @lpdev said...

    I think you missed the point of my post. I’m not concerned with individual people having larger bankrolls than me. I’m concerned about the direct impact that staking can have on everyone that plays DFS. My first point was that staking can potential impact the way the pro player is playing. If all of a sudden stlcardinals84 increases his volume dramatically because of crowd sourcing, that impacts me. If 100 people buy stakes in stlcardinals84 instead of putting that money in their own lineups, that impacts me. I’m sure stlcardinals84 has quite a bankroll and it may not impact his play at all. I highly doubt all the people that put money on his lineups, pulled that money from a separate source that doesn’t impact their personal DFS play.

    OK, I see where you’re coming from, that it could have an impact on the player pool. I think you’re right in theory, it just seems like a pretty tiny impact that is potentially outweighed by the benefits of staking. A transparent, robust staking marketplace could be a great thing for the non-pro players.

  • noddy

    I don’t see cards on there tonight. Am I missing it?

  • mike291md

    @TnRiddles said...

    The lure of the GPP will always be there.

    I disagree. Out of me and 12 other guys I know who are complete fantasy nuts (it’s all we talk about), I’m essentially the only one who plays DFS regularly anymore. They have all essentially given up DFS and I’m willing to bet that my group isn’t the only pocket of fantasy players where this is occurring.

    The big prizes may initially bring a fantasy player to DFS, but that’s short-term. What is going to keep them here long-term? How long of seeing shared lineups and knowing you need a near-perfect lineup EVERY SINGLE NIGHT just to make halfway decent money until they go this isn’t winnable nor fun anymore?

    This industry did eerily follow the same path as online poker. First, there was the boom where everyone wanted to play and you had players of all shapes and sizes. Then, slowly, you had over saturation of information coming out telling you how to become a better poker player (same as DFS, hello lineup optimizer). Then, you had poker bots and collusion and conspiracies along the way (same as DFS has had its share).

    Suddenly, the poker game became much harder to win. It was harder and harder to find bad players and take advantage of bad plays. A table of 8 idiots was now just a table of 2 idiots, for instance. Then, we had Black Friday and the government stepped in. The government also stepped in on DFS. Losing just one state’s revenue is a big blow to revenue, now how many states did they ultimately lose to the government stepping in?

    Now, sports betting is on its way. Why keep trying to make the perfect lineup every night when you can just take the entire team in a sports bet? It’s going to be the nail in the coffin for DFS. We’re at the final stretch run. Maybe things could of been different if they listened and ruled with an iron fist from the beginning. And I know all of the sudden now they are marketing this “We’re listening to the fanbase!” ideal but where was that years ago?

    By now, on this site alone, we’ve had thousands of threads about lineup selling and payout structures. You’re telling me they couldn’t of heeded suggestions way back when? The writing is on the wall. Rake has risen ridiculously high and the guaranteed prize pools have gotten weaker overall. It wasn’t long ago when a big MLB slate quarter buy-in was a minimum $10,000 guarantee. Now we’re regularly getting $5,000 guarantee quarter buy-ins for 15 game slates! That’s incredibly weak compared to previous years. And now guess what? The sites are suddenly listening to the fanbase! Wow what a coincidence!

  • depalma13

    @tippycat said...

    I have no problem with it. Selling shares for a racehorse is common. Sometimes it works, Funny Cide had a lot of people that had shares. He won the Derby and the Preakness. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. Thus selling shares from a person’s knowledge and skill are the same, it might work like taking down a HUGE GGP or it might not work

    I own shares of racehorses. I have contracts with the syndicates I am a partner in. This is nothing like that at all.

  • depalma13

    @krighton said...

    that Stakekings site needs to have a way to watch how a person you’re staking is progressing throughout the evening…..and their livechat to withdraw is lame…let me click a button please and not have to talk to someone who’s going to try and convince me not to withdraw.

    If you have to speak to someone to withdraw your money, stay as far away from this as you can.

  • noddy

    Will there be any more contests from Stl Cards?

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @noddy said...

    Will there be any more contests from Stl Cards?

    I tried it out as part of the RG Promo, but to be totally honest, this really isn’t in my wheelhouse. I am uncomfortable with the pressure of it and don’t like the thought of potentially losing other peoples’ funds.

    The site seems great, but it’s not my cup of tea to do this.

  • noddy

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    I tried it out as part of the RG Promo, but to be totally honest, this really isn’t in my wheelhouse. I am uncomfortable with the pressure of it and don’t like the thought of potentially losing other peoples’ funds.

    The site seems great, but it’s not my cup of tea to do this.

    Ok thanks cards

  • D4RKSH33P

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    I tried it out as part of the RG Promo, but to be totally honest, this really isn’t in my wheelhouse. I am uncomfortable with the pressure of it and don’t like the thought of potentially losing other peoples’ funds.

    The site seems great, but it’s not my cup of tea to do this.

    Did you just refund the stake since I see the same amount I put in back in my account? Or did it just work out like that?

  • BobbyTheBrain

    This right here is a stand up guy! There are not many other guys out there that would be this honest and respectful. I admire you for that. World needs more people like you!

  • tamparoor

    I used to play every sport every day but like others say it got so hard I quit. I only throw a single lineup in the big mma contest now and once I can bet on mma I’ll be done with dfs

  • Benf15harp

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    I tried it out as part of the RG Promo, but to be totally honest, this really isn’t in my wheelhouse. I am uncomfortable with the pressure of it and don’t like the thought of potentially losing other peoples’ funds.

    The site seems great, but it’s not my cup of tea to do this.

  • bigez952

    @D4RKSH33P said...

    Did you just refund the stake since I see the same amount I put in back in my account? Or did it just work out like that?

    Cards felt bad about losing other people’s money and pod everyone back so he took the loss and bit anyone else. Pretty stand up guy to do that when h didn’t have to at all.

  • dolphinkick182

    This is nothing more than buying LU’s. You are paying to play someone else’s LU. It’s simple no matter how you try to mask it, you are paying money to play a LU you didn’t create. Call it what you want but this is LU selling.

  • bigez952

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    This is nothing more than buying LU’s. You are paying to play someone else’s LU. It’s simple no matter how you try to mask it, you are paying money to play a LU you didn’t create. Call it what you want but this is LU selling.

    I would rather have this than lineup selling since if only 1 user is entering a contest via crowdfunding they are still subject to the max entry limits. However if a lineup seller sells to 500 people you can have contests with have the field using the same lineup.

  • divusjulius

    • Blogger of the Month

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    This is nothing more than buying LU’s. You are paying to play someone else’s LU. It’s simple no matter how you try to mask it, you are paying money to play a LU you didn’t create. Call it what you want but this is LU selling.

    no, its clearly not lineup selling. for cthullu’s sake, if a person can’t enter the lineup on their own with their own money they did not buy it. this is staking, buying some action in a player. investors do not play someone else’s lineup. staking goes on now every single day, all STLCards did was make it public (and again, STL did not do anything illegal or unethical here-in fact just the opposite).

    people may not like staking, which is fine, but staking is not collusion or lineup selling.

  • SmartWater

    Marketing and Social Media Manager

    @dolphinkick182 said...

    This is nothing more than buying LU’s. You are paying to play someone else’s LU. It’s simple no matter how you try to mask it, you are paying money to play a LU you didn’t create. Call it what you want but this is LU selling.

    There is a big difference between the two. I would say the biggest is that one is against TOS and the other is not.

  • SmartWater

    Marketing and Social Media Manager

    Hey Guys,

    We are working to add more DFS players to the StakeKings platform as we speak. The process is important to us because we will not allow just anyone to post a package. Continue to check StakeKings and I will post in here as we add more “pros” to SK. Thanks :)

  • depalma13

    @divusjulius said...

    no, its clearly not lineup selling. for cthullu’s sake, if a person can’t enter the lineup on their own with their own money they did not buy it. this is staking, buying some action in a player. investors do not play someone else’s lineup. staking goes on now every single day, all STLCards did was make it public (and again, STL did not do anything illegal or unethical here-in fact just the opposite).

    people may not like staking, which is fine, but staking is not collusion or lineup selling.

    When you can prove that none of the staking money came from people living in Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Georgia or a number of other states where DFS is illegal, you can make that statement.

  • depalma13

    @SmartWater said...

    Hey Guys,

    We are working to add more DFS players to the StakeKings platform as we speak. The process is important to us because we will not allow just anyone to post a package. Continue to check StakeKings and I will post in here as we add more “pros” to SK. Thanks :)

    Since rotogrinders is working with this site maybe you could ask them how do they get around having a license to sell securities or do they have one.

  • mambaland

    @depalma13 said...

    We are working to add more DFS players to the StakeKings platform as we speak. The process is important to us because we will not allow just anyone to post a package. Continue to check StakeKings and I will post in here as we add more “pros” to SK. Thanks :)

    when will anyone be required to post their net winnings before they are declared a pro??

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