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  • cb35

    2013 FFFC Finalist, 2013 DFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Starstreet NBA adding late game swaps!

    from an email I just got:

    NBA season is here and we’ve got some exciting changes to announce.

    Late games edits

    You can now edit the players on your NBA teams all the way up until their games start. No more getting stuck with a player who ends up out of the lineup. Of course editing works seamlessly on mobile devices so even if you’re out and about you’ll always be able to make the changes you want quick and easy.

    New roster format:

    PG
    SG
    SF
    PF
    C
    G
    F
    Util.
    Util.

    New scoring:

    Point = 1
    Rebound = 1.25
    Assist = 1.5
    Steal = 2
    Block = 2
    Turnover = -1

    And of course, we’ll be announcing the details of our NBA championship event very soon.

    NBA!

  • gregg323

    @db730 said…

    I would be shocked if it ever becomes an industry standard. I think the fact we have choices is what is making the Daily Fantasy industry great right now. I am totally indifferent on the issue, but think the arguments for and against it are fair.

    Late swaps and kickers should be industry standard !!! Just kidding. IMO I think this will bring more players to SS. In this day and age it’s all about getting a larger piece of the pie.

  • Taterchipdip

    Late swaps are one of the biggest reasons I play at DK. Maybe I’ll have to sign up at SS now. One thing I wish SS would do is change their background color from white to a darker color like DK has.

  • FatalError

    DraftKings Rep

    Happy to see other sites adding this, I can’t play on DK obviously and I’ve been waiting for other sites where I can late game swap.

    You don’t have to be at your computer all day either, there are services like fantasy alarm (or do your own twitter searches) that can allow you to access the necessary info on the go. Just swap out your guys on mobile. I’m not too concerned with leaving my house if I know the 1 or 2 guys I have to double check.

  • tommyboy42609

    @draftcheat said…

    I know I’m in the minority, but I’m dissapointed by this. You give up such a big edge if you aren’t at the computer to monitor news AND check your lineup against your opponent’s lineups. If you are losing in a close matchup, you can add up remaining salary and guess who your opponent’s remaining players are. If you think you have the same guys, you can switch them out. Not a big deal from night-to-night, perhaps, but the edges are small enough as it is in DFS. A lot of us spend huge chunks of the day researching, and it’s nice to be able to watch the games and relax with people and not be checking news/lineups all the time.

    Agree with this. Another aspect that is comparable is the Thursday night football game locks, where for example this week I have l.moore and amendola on a few teams under 1% in GPPS – greatly adding to their gpp value relative to their Sunday gpp value.

    A similar principle is in effect here to a degree – I know last year I took a chance on game-time calls with Curry in gpps and it paid off nicely since he ends up being completely underowned, if he’s scratched then that’s the gamble I was willing to take. More importantly, going off this example from last year, if I’m not next to my computer/checking phone 10 mins before tipoff and Curry is scratched – everybody else can switch to J.Jack in their lineup while I’m out doing whatever not trying to stress NBA all night.

    I already get enough grief checking my scores throughout the night, I don’t need or want to be checking in before the 3-4 different NBA tip-off times each night on top of that.

    I understand both sides of the argument but personally I’ll be keeping my NBA $$ on DS for the most part. I know I’ll get a random scratch throughout the year and I’ll be pissed but over the long haul it should even itself out.

  • futureoffantasy

    • 368

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #90

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Tommyboys argument about taking a chance on game-time calls is the best I’ve heard against Late-Game Swap. That kind of sucks to lose out on that option of taking a risk on a guy that will have low ownership but overall I am in favor of late-game swap.

    For the people that say people will check lineups and switch out players. I would gladly face opponents who are swapping out better players for inferior players. That’s going to work out for them what, maybe 1% of the time. All the other times it will just drop them to the bottom of the standings.

  • ponzicrash

    How some of you think switching out players for higher volatility players when you are behind(or lower volatility players when ahead) isn’t a big deal to me is confusing.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @ponzicrash said…

    How some of you think switching out players for higher volatility players when you are behind(or lower volatility players when ahead) isn’t a big deal to me is confusing.

    In the nba the range on players is tighter than NFL. So it’s much harder to switch in a swingy player without sacrificing lots of salary space. So you may be able to put yourself back in by underspending but not nearly as much in a dollar for dollar swap.

    FCK

  • bobbyrogers46

    Just only read the first 3 post on this topic and decided to drop a reply/question? Why is it we think a site has to offer one option or the other? I personally think that it would be in a sites best interest to offer both styles of game play. Both locking of rosters at the start of the first game of the day and also the option to edit rosters up to the start of the last game of the day and make both of those different game formats?

  • Rooks19

    I don’t really like this either. I like knowing who my opponent has immediately when the first games start, its one of the appeals of DFS. Show me ya lame squad at 6 o’clock so I can convince myself how badly I have you owned before the games start.

  • AveryBradley

    @Rooks19 said…

    I don’t really like this either. I like knowing who my opponent has immediately when the first games start, its one of the appeals of DFS. Show me ya lame squad at 6 o’clock so I can convince myself how badly I have you owned before the games start.

    Gotta agree with Rooks despite his Kirk Hinrich propaganda for an avatar.

    I like to see the lineups at 7..

    Also it is 100% an edge to check player statuses after 7pm if there is no lineup lock, how could anyone have a opinion contrary to that? It isn’t even close to being a subject of debate.

    What if you don’t have Joakim Noah in your lineup but he is playing a game at 8:30 and is ruled out. Taj Gibson is close to min price and becomes a must start so others reconfigure their lineups and get this newly optimal play in while you are off at the movies seeing Les Miserables because you fancy the finer nuances of musical theater. So now your lineup becomes very sub-optimal because you didn’t check news? Will this happen every night? No of course not, but to act like this new element isn’t in play with late swap is a logical fallacy to say the least.

    I mean I guess that works for you if you don’t mind losing $ but I would be prepared to check news often most nights in the NBA when we get past Jan or so (when half these teams are tanking) for injury news.

    Either way I do agree with those that express the sentiment it is good the consumer has options. Some people like late swap, others dont and there are a bevy of options….

  • hotpants

    Yuck…. Another site to avoid unless I can babysit my lineups all night

  • briguy13

    @AveryBradley said…

    Gotta agree with Rooks despite his Kirk Hinrich propaganda for an avatar.

    I like to see the lineups at 7..

    Also it is 100% an edge to check player statuses after 7pm if there is no lineup lock, how could anyone have a opinion contrary to that? It isn’t even close to being a subject of debate.

    What if you don’t have Joakim Noah in your lineup but he is playing a game at 8:30 and is ruled out. Taj Gibson is close to min price and becomes a must start so others reconfigure their lineups and get this newly optimal play in while you are off at the movies seeing Les Miserables because you fancy the finer nuances of musical theater. So now your lineup becomes very sub-optimal because you didn’t check news? Will this happen every night? No of course not, but to act like this new element isn’t in play with late swap is a logical fallacy to say the least.

    I mean I guess that works for you if you don’t mind losing $ but I would be prepared to check news often most nights in the NBA when we get past Jan or so (when half these teams are tanking) for injury news.

    Either way I do agree with those that express the sentiment it is good the consumer has options. Some people like late swap, others dont and there are a bevy of options….

    Completely agree. If you’re playing on a late-game swap site and won’t be paying attention up until the last tip, you’re burning money.

  • tvegas40

    I’ll take my business to the 1st site that offers Half-Time swaps. I usually have a good idea how I need to change my team by then……

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    Late swap has existed last NBA season on DK, and the entirety of MLB…for all the doom and gloom people in this thread are professing, it’s not as big an impact as you’re making it. You’re all using 1% of 1% examples to try and show why this is -ev while FAILING to show the 1% of 1% times that it will work out in your favor. There’s a balance to it.

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • $1M Prize Winner

    Basically all of this has to happen for one of these scenarios to come to fruition.

    1. You have to set your lineup in a h2h game and leave after tip off.
    2. You have zero access to a smartphone because you’re at the movies, the opera, or in a National Security briefing with the POTUS
    3. Your opponent is tethered to his computer and monitoring every fantasy chat room, twitter and info site all while watching every game on the TV.
    4. A HUGE bit of information that will unbalance the matchup has to come out some time after you’ve left the house and gone off the grid
    5. Your opponent has not just the info that allows him to switch the player, but the corresponding roster spot that he can not just swap out the first player, but ALSO have a complimentary unlocked roster spot that he can now roster a player preciously out of price range.

    OR

    5. You opponent is 10 points behind you and does the math to figure out who you both have left at one spot, and then changes that player to another, less optimal play, and then that less optimal play outscores your MORE optimal play.

    1%, of 1%, or 1% chance of ALL those stars aligning at the same time on the same night.

  • jlowery73

    2012 DDC Main Event Champion

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • x3

      2015 FACFC Finalist

    Love the late game swaps, so I will be playing hoops on SS for sure.

    For those saying they are at a disadvantage of having to baby sit lineups during the games I would argue they are already at a bit of a disadvantage if they aren’t following the sport as closely as some of their opponents are. Other then that, there are already plenty of sites who do not have late game swaps so they can just play there.

  • hotpants

    True. Work sucks. It’d be great to be able to watch every game every night, but personally, I have to get up too early for that.. Those of us in that situation would be silly to put ourselves at even more of a disadvantage by playing on sites that allow late swaps.

    Many are excited though, which is great for SS! Perhaps the stars align more often than I had thought…

  • AveryBradley

    @alsmizzle said…

    Late swap has existed last NBA season on DK, and the entirety of MLB…for all the doom and gloom people in this thread are professing, it’s not as big an impact as you’re making it. You’re all using 1% of 1% examples to try and show why this is -ev while FAILING to show the 1% of 1% times that it will work out in your favor. There’s a balance to it.

    You can say what you want about which you like better but the main 2 points are this (I personally will play on sites with both formats and think there are pros/cons to both so I’m just objectively speaking…)

    1. It is zero-sum for all players if lineups lock at 7 and won’t effect anyones EV over time.

    2. It is +EV for all players who follow news, are ready to swap players and update their lineups over the course of the next 30 mins to 4 1/2 hours. This isn’t a 1% of 1% scenario at all. If you play on a site with late swap, be prepared to late swap or you will be cutting your edge over time. Keep in mind there are a solid 4-5 nights a week with NBA action, taking the worst of these Taj Gibson-esque scenarios over time can add up. Just having smartphone access and finding out Noah is out doesn’t mean you are on the spot prepared to figure out what the new optimal lineup is. Unless you prepped that out before 7, in which case that will also add more time to your research.

    I do agree with JLowery though if you are just painting your version of the Mona Lisa in a silent studio every night and don’t wanna follow the sport past 7 you likely aren’t going to win anyway. I think most people are somewhere in the middle in regards to that, some nights they want the game aspect to end at 7, others they are fine extending it…5 1/2 months a long time after all…

    Lastly, I do think over time more sites will move to late-swap. Even though this is -EV for the casual player, it is just too dehabilitating for them to see their 9700 stud was a late scratch and they got a 0. So I think SS, DK, etc are just the beginning of moving in that direction.

  • Rooks19

    Yeah its a good point, very few grinders can balance their own research and time spent watching the games with being a major player in the culturally rich nightlife scene in a major metropolis.

    Avery tried but then when no one came to his black tie only Glee viewing parties he realized that he wasn’t as in touch with that cross hair of the Boston population as he thought he was.

  • Markness

    DraftKings Team

    The most obvious situation to utilize a late-swap option is when (sometime after 7pm) news comes out that one of your late-game players will be sitting out for some reason. It only seems fair to be able to swap him out. But, as some have mentioned, there are other situations where using the late-swap is advantageous and therefore a disadvantage for anyone not utilizing it…
    I would think analyzing your place in the standings and the potential make-up of the rosters ahead of and behind you would open up some opportunity for increasing your EV by making a late-swap. But even if we dismiss that concept, and just focus on the effect of a late-scratch (that is the reason for the late-swap option in the first place, right?), you’re still at a disadvantage if you’re not ready to make adjustments throughout the night. For any relevant late-scratch there are a significant amount of minutes that will now go to other players on that team.
    True, not every late-scratch results in a premium value pick, but plenty of them do. The Noah/Gibson example is good enough for me. You might have had zero interest in any Bulls players to begin the night, but once news breaks that Noah is out you’re gonna lose significant edge if your opponent finds room for Gibson on his roster, paying 50 cents on the dollar, while you were just relaxing on the couch watching the Knicks game.
    Over time the people who do not realize this will lose. Then the game will be left with only hardcore players. It’s a battle between perception and reality. People perceive it as unfair to have any chance at getting unlucky with a late-scratch, but in reality it should happen to everyone an equal amount over time… just don’t put your entire bankroll into one night. It is perceived that the late-swap is simply an extra option that you can choose to ignore, but in reality if you think that’s the case you won’t last very long.

  • CruzinToVictory

    RG Product Coordinator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Markness said…

    The most obvious situation to utilize a late-swap option is when (sometime after 7pm) news comes out that one of your late-game players will be sitting out for some reason. It only seems fair to be able to swap him out. But, as some have mentioned, there are other situations where using the late-swap is advantageous and therefore a disadvantage for anyone not utilizing it…
    I would think analyzing your place in the standings and the potential make-up of the rosters ahead of and behind you would open up some opportunity for increasing your EV by making a late-swap. But even if we dismiss that concept, and just focus on the effect of a late-scratch (that is the reason for the late-swap option in the first place, right?), you’re still at a disadvantage if you’re not ready to make adjustments throughout the night. For any relevant late-scratch there are a significant amount of minutes that will now go to other players on that team.
    True, not every late-scratch results in a premium value pick, but plenty of them do. The Noah/Gibson example is good enough for me. You might have had zero interest in any Bulls players to begin the night, but once news breaks that Noah is out you’re gonna lose significant edge if your opponent finds room for Gibson on his roster, paying 50 cents on the dollar, while you were just relaxing on the couch watching the Knicks game.
    Over time the people who do not realize this will lose. Then the game will be left with only hardcore players. It’s a battle between perception and reality. People perceive it as unfair to have any chance at getting unlucky with a late-scratch, but in reality it should happen to everyone an equal amount over time… just don’t put your entire bankroll into one night. It is perceived that the late-swap is simply an extra option that you can choose to ignore, but in reality if you think that’s the case you won’t last very long.

    +1

    Very well said, and my point exactly. Hopefully one day sites will offer an option to players, but until then I’ll be on sites without late swap and I’ll be nice and relaxed once 7pm hits.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    I’m not exactly a casual player, but I’m heavily against late game swaps. Personally, I prefer to know exactly how I stack at lock time. That and I LOVE looking at the usage percentages ASAP!

    If late game swaps becomes the industry standard, I’d certainly cry foul and throw a tantrum. As it is, I’m thankful for sites like DS, FF, and DD.

  • blaze1

    @FatalError said…

    Happy to see other sites adding this, I can’t play on DK obviously and I’ve been waiting for other sites where I can late game swap.

    You don’t have to be at your computer all day either, there are services like fantasy alarm (or do your own twitter searches) that can allow you to access the necessary info on the go. Just swap out your guys on mobile. I’m not too concerned with leaving my house if I know the 1 or 2 guys I have to double check.

    Draft Kings has the sickest mobile site, easy swaps via your device.

    Glad to see sites are following DK’s lead and integrating late swaps. Your opponent has no more of an edge than you do. It’s to your advantage to have this feature available, after all, YOUR MONEY is on the line. Don’t get stuck with a late scratch, your bankroll won’t like it.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 844

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @blaze1 said…

    Draft Kings has the sickest mobile site, easy swaps via your device.

    Glad to see sites are following DK’s lead and integrating late swaps. Your opponent has no more of an edge than you do. It’s to your advantage to have this feature available, after all, YOUR MONEY is on the line. Don’t get stuck with a late scratch, your bankroll won’t like it.

    Until your opponent gets stuck with a late scratch. Then your bankroll loves it.

  • bestintheworld

    BITW

    @db730 said…

    Until your opponent gets stuck with a late scratch. Then your bankroll loves it.

    Yep. It goes both ways. When you’re in a tournament and 20% of the field has a player that has a late scratch you jump up to the top pretty quickly. It only sucks when you’re on the other end.

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