NBA FORUM

  • mncomic62

    I’m considering subscribing to the RG Fanduel GPP
    lineup feature but after monitoring the grinders live segment
    for the past few weeks I consider the picks made by the
    so-called experts to be way off…yes they may get a few
    players right but overall they’re not even close…if RG want
    folks to actually pay for premium features, reach out to
    those actually winning GPPs

  • njsum

    Winning GPP’s isn’t a regular thing for most players, even the very best. I won a quarter arcade GPP in hockey during the NBA all star break and know nothing about hockey, like seriously nothing. As in I didnt know who Ovechkin was until after playing for 3 nights. My point, winning a GPP is a lot of luck and just because someone won a GPP by no means makes them an expert.

    My advice, see which pros advice seems to be the most helpful and most correct on a consistent basis, and if you want subscribe to only the premium content put out by that expert. Plus this should go without saying…do you think if anybody was able to produce winning GPP lineups with any regularity they’d share it with anyone? As they’d make a heck of a lot more money entering the contests and taking down massive prize pools. Just my two cents…good luck!

  • tvsfrink

    @njsum said...

    I won a quarter arcade GPP in hockey during the NBA all star break and know nothing about hockey, like seriously nothing. As in I didnt know who Ovechkin was until after playing for 3 nights.

    Nothing against you but this makes me want to bash my head in.\

    EDIT: The quote function on this forum could really use some work.

  • njsum

    @tvsfrink…it was only a small GPP 1700 entries, so don’t feel so bad

  • kdriskell311

    @njsum said...

    Winning GPP’s isn’t a regular thing for most players, even the very best. I won a quarter arcade GPP in hockey during the NBA all star break and know nothing about hockey, like seriously nothing. As in I didnt know who Ovechkin was until after playing for 3 nights. My point, winning a GPP is a lot of luck and just because someone won a GPP by no means makes them an expert.

    My advice, see which pros advice seems to be the most helpful and most correct on a consistent basis, and if you want subscribe to only the premium content put out by that expert. Plus this should go without saying…do you think if anybody was able to produce winning GPP lineups with any regularity they’d share it with anyone? As they’d make a heck of a lot more money entering the contests and taking down massive prize pools. Just my two cents…good luck!

    Hell of a .25 investment!

  • mncomic62

    I’ll give a quick example…

    This was the GPP line-up from yesterday from 3 of the “experts” from Grinders live…

    Wall – 59
    Holiday – 20
    Butler – 33.7
    Bradley – 20.4
    Mirotec – 8.7
    Wiggins – 22.1
    Sullinger – 15.8
    Ibaka – 19.4
    Kanter – 32.9

    Total – 232

    Winning line -up in 100k Swat – 374.1 to cash 297

    I could list several more lineups the experts pick with basically the same results…believe me, I
    understand the criticism of those saying “you can’t just plug these lineups in and expect to win”…I get
    it…but these picks are not even a starter really…we also have to understand the fact that these experts are giving a lineup out, but NOT necessarily THEIR LINEUP

    BigfT44’s expert picks is 25 bucks a month or 49 bucks for the season…I guess the question is how much different are his “expert” picks from what he gives out on Grinders live…if theyre the same it’s not worth the $…if they are different why is he
    giving different opinions on Grinders Live?

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @mncomic62 said...

    I’ll give a quick example…

    This was the GPP line-up from yesterday from 3 of the “experts” from Grinders live…

    Wall – 59
    Holiday – 20
    Butler – 33.7
    Bradley – 20.4
    Mirotec – 8.7
    Wiggins – 22.1
    Sullinger – 15.8
    Ibaka – 19.4
    Kanter – 32.9

    Total – 232

    Winning line -up in 100k Swat – 374.1 to cash 297

    I could list several more lineups the experts pick with basically the same results…believe me, I
    understand the criticism of those saying “you can’t just plug these lineups in and expect to win”…I get
    it…but these picks are not even a starter really…we also have to understand the fact that these experts are giving a lineup out, but NOT necessarily THEIR LINEUP

    BigfT44’s expert picks is 25 bucks a month or 49 bucks for the season…I guess the question is how much different are his “expert” picks from what he gives out on Grinders live…if theyre the same it’s not worth the $…if they are different why is he
    giving different opinions on Grinders Live?

    Honestly, I think that’s a pretty legit lineup. I think most people could defend the majority of those choices from a GPP standpoint. It also lost out on four quarters of action since Bradley, Ibaka, Sullinger and Holiday all sat their fourth quarters due to blowout. I personally don’t watch too many of these segments because I just second guess my own research, but honestly, this lineup is full of high risk/high reward type players, and all of these players in there have pretty high ceilings and the matchups were in their favor. I personally would never play Sullinger or Ibaka because they’re both so volatile, but that’s what make them GPP plays. You can be super chalk and get a minimum cash when things go well, but chalk will not outright win a GPP (coming from a guy who has yet to win one in four full years of playing almost every night!)… what were the ownership percentages of those players? Other than Holiday and Mirotic (and maybe Wall I guess), I’m thinking they were probably all 10% or lower.

  • mncomic62

    I appreciate your input.

    I’m not looking to win…just a good cash…

    Thanks jimfred

  • sgaffney

    @jimfred82 said...

    Honestly, I think that’s a pretty legit lineup. I think most people could defend the majority of those choices from a GPP standpoint. It also lost out on four quarters of action since Bradley, Ibaka, Sullinger and Holiday all sat their fourth quarters due to blowout. I personally don’t watch too many of these segments because I just second guess my own research, but honestly, this lineup is full of high risk/high reward type players, and all of these players in there have pretty high ceilings and the matchups were in their favor. I personally would never play Sullinger or Ibaka because they’re both so volatile, but that’s what make them GPP plays. You can be super chalk and get a minimum cash when things go well, but chalk will not outright win a GPP (coming from a guy who has yet to win one in four full years of playing almost every night!)… what were the ownership percentages of those players? Other than Holiday and Mirotic (and maybe Wall I guess), I’m thinking they were probably all 10% or lower.

    And that’s the problem with giving picks in general, especially GPP plays. Anybody is a GPP play and it can almost always be defended in hindsight, usually due to low ownership.

    For a lot of analysts GPP plays basically mean, ‘I’m not really sure’ and cash game plays mean ‘I’m pretty sure he’ll do well’.

    Some articles from certain people can be pretty insightful and the shows are useful to get a general overview of who people are playing and occasional sharp analysis but don’t watch expecting to get a brilliant line up every time from them, it’s unrealistic.

    That being said, I think criticism of RG and their product is perfectly fair, it seems anyone who dares to question things gets jumped on by people who defend RG and related hosts no matter what the topic is.

  • mncomic62

    Gaffney…great point…which was exactly my point…if experts picks are iffy most of the time
    on Grinders Live…why would I pay for that

  • Shipmymoney

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    @mncomic62 said...

    I appreciate your input.

    I’m not looking to win…just a good cash…

    Thanks jimfred

    Then why are you playing GPPs? The lineup you posted was a pretty solid GPP lineup,it just didn’t work out last night. If you are good at making GPP lineups, you will have a lot of nights where your lineup looks horrible in hindsight because you want to take on more volatile plays

  • srolleDFS

    how about you just don’t subscribe.

  • FoothillsFlash

    I play almost exclusively GPP for the NBA, so don’t get me wrong, because I’m not knocking them. But you have to realize, a potentially good GPP lineup will NOT cash most of the time. A good GPP lineup has several players that are low owned, and that’s usually for a reason. Even if you do great and beat 80% of the other players, you still are unlikely to cash. And if you do awesome and finish 100th out of 118,000 (better than top 1/10th of 1%), you still aren’t making big $$. The real payoff on GPPs comes when you get a couple of low-owned high flyers who push you up to the first page of the leaderboard – a very rare occurrence, no matter how great of a DFS player you are.

  • bigloser11

    All due respect to all—
    I’m old and have been playing for 3+ yrs.It is a lot of fun.I’ll never be MaxD.
    How do you quantify human behavior?How do you predict the unpredictable?
    Even if you know player A will have a big night, player B is all coked up, player
    C’s mother is dying, all that inside information still needs analysis.( would all
    that info guarantee a win?)jm

  • IronMonkey415

    I need to cancel Rotowire.com, thank you for the reminder.
    It’s been fun but I need to save money.

  • OneShotKill17

    @mncomic62 said...

    I appreciate your input.

    I’m not looking to win…just a good cash…

    Thanks jimfred

    This seems silly. Maybe I’m taking it too literally, I’m obviously always happy with a top 10 and a nice cash but I can’t imagine saying “I’m not looking to win.”

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @sgaffney said...

    And that’s the problem with giving picks in general, especially GPP plays. Anybody is a GPP play and it can almost always be defended in hindsight, usually due to low ownership.

    For a lot of analysts GPP plays basically mean, ‘I’m not really sure’ and cash game plays mean ‘I’m pretty sure he’ll do well’.

    Some articles from certain people can be pretty insightful and the shows are useful to get a general overview of who people are playing and occasional sharp analysis but don’t watch expecting to get a brilliant line up every time from them, it’s unrealistic.

    That being said, I think criticism of RG and their product is perfectly fair, it seems anyone who dares to question things gets jumped on by people who defend RG and related hosts no matter what the topic is.

    I don’t disagree with either of your points. I mean, look at Rodney Hood tonight… probably was more of a cash game play than a GPP play, but flopped and ruined both. But, as others have said, in order to actually win a GPP, you’re probably going to have to have at least 1/3rd of your lineup be guys who are less than 10% owned and just go nuts, and recommending guys who have that upside but are inherently volatile (aka Ibaka and Sullinger) make them great GPP plays because the reality is a lot of people just don’t have the stomach to put guys in their lineup who will either have like 18 or 40. But it’s not like we don’t all know this.

    And, I completely agree that there should be some accountability when people choose to pay for content. But, it’s kind of one of those things that’s a bit tricky, because the reality is, if experts were right every single night (whether they be RG, or countless other lineup selling sites that are constantly sending me annoying DM’s on twitter to subscribe to their crappy content), then we’d all be hosed, as the cash line even higher than it is now, which is significantly higher than it was just a few years ago. Not only that, but how many people would simply pay for free lineups and just never research? How many people do that now anyway?

    I guess my question would be, what is it people would be looking for? Is there a certain percentage of successful picks? A certain percentage of the field to finish in front of? Cash picks? GPP picks? There is just a lot involved, and I for one do not envy those who are in charge of making these picks because, especially in GPP’s, you’re probably going to be wrong 3x as often as you’re right…

  • emhender

    @mncomic62 said...

    I’ll give a quick example…

    This was the GPP line-up from yesterday from 3 of the “experts” from Grinders live…

    Wall – 59
    Holiday – 20
    Butler – 33.7
    Bradley – 20.4
    Mirotec – 8.7
    Wiggins – 22.1
    Sullinger – 15.8
    Ibaka – 19.4
    Kanter – 32.9

    Total – 232

    Winning line -up in 100k Swat – 374.1 to cash 297

    I could list several more lineups the experts pick with basically the same results…believe me, I
    understand the criticism of those saying “you can’t just plug these lineups in and expect to win”…I get
    it…but these picks are not even a starter really…we also have to understand the fact that these experts are giving a lineup out, but NOT necessarily THEIR LINEUP

    BigfT44’s expert picks is 25 bucks a month or 49 bucks for the season…I guess the question is how much different are his “expert” picks from what he gives out on Grinders live…if theyre the same it’s not worth the $…if they are different why is he
    giving different opinions on Grinders Live?

    Keep in mind that show is recorded EARLY in the day, before any injury/news comes out. Obviously you have to adjust throughout the day.

    Example: Miro was a good play, before Taj got upgraded from doubtful to playing.

  • clrockny24

    This also makes me mad, and curious. How did you even come close twinning a GPP in hockey when you know nothing about it?

  • Capone1233

    @clrockny24 said...

    This also makes me mad, and curious. How did you even come close twinning a GPP in hockey when you know nothing about it?

    Blind luck.

  • jtwfantasy

    I think the biggest problem is that these picks are made early afternoon with little thought/research done. I know if I had to make a line-up at 1pm ET it would be drastically different/worse from what I would come up with at 7pm.

  • yoteach

    • Blogger of the Month

    As someone who went through a phase a couple of years ago that is similar to the one you are going through now, I’d suggest an adjustment in thinking. When I couldn’t make my own lineups that won with any regularity, I too got a bit ticked when I perceived that experts picks were leading me astray. As I have learned and grown as a player, I now listen to hear what others are thinking and utilize game theory to make my picks based on a better understanding of how it all works. If you go to Daily Overlay, they grade experts picks daily (articles, not live shows). I am not even sure how you could make a lineup of “picks” for GrindersLive, as they try to break down their thoughts more so than give you a lineup. I would say to make an investment in incentives but to do so with the idea of learning as much as you can and ingesting as much information as possible to grow/develop your own game; relying on experts picks is the easy way out (and blaming them is even easier).

  • sportznutt

    As Tomy G stated on the radio, stay away from DFS NBA as it’s all a crapshoot now with teams tanking.

  • njsum

    @clrockny24 said...

    This also makes me mad, and curious. How did you even come close twinning a GPP in hockey when you know nothing about it?

    First off it was a 3 game slate quarter arcade, with only 1700 entires and the payoff was only 40 bucks so dont get too upset. Second, you’ll never see my name on top of the grinders leaderboard as I play only quarter arcades for gpps and 1 to 5 dollar double ups and 50/50’s. however, I am a consistently winning player and have a better understanding of dfs than someone who would normally play at my level. DFS is my primary hobby and I did take a few hours to read up on some basic hockey strategy as well take the time to learn DKs scoring system and figure out which historical stats to use and then paired that with vegas lines. Couple that with a large helping of good old fashioned luck and there you have it. also keep in mind a lot of newbies were playing hockey during nba all star break so that probably made it easier as well.

  • squidkill

    @sportznutt said...

    As Tomy G stated on the radio, stay away from DFS NBA as it’s all a crapshoot now with teams tanking.

    ahh disagree- Perfect Time to stay up on the information, learn the rotations and pick the games with Teams that have things to play for —-Advantage for skill player—

  • sportznutt

    @squidkill said...

    ahh disagree- Perfect Time to stay up on the information, learn the rotations and pick the games with Teams that have things to play for —-Advantage for skill player—

    That’s coming from a skill player.

    I dunno….when there are 10-15 guys with incredible value, it makes it luck of the draw instead of skills.

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